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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 10-19-2013, 5:44 AM
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Default Has a bullet button-equipped gun EVER been used in a crime?

Given how infrequently rifles are used in crimes, it seems even less likely those evil bullet buttons are used in crime.

Can anyone find even a single instance of a bullet button-equipped gun being used in a crime?
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2013, 6:14 AM
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I'd bet that one has.

But let me re-phrase the question:

Has a bullet-button-equipped Personal Defense Weapon ever been used in a violent crime against a human being with a subsequent arrest and conviction.

As re-phrased, I just don't know. I don't remember hearing of such a case.
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  #3  
Old 10-19-2013, 6:42 AM
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Let me re-phrase the question:

Has a "magazine-locked" Personal Defense Weapon ever been used in a violent crime against a human being with a subsequent arrest and conviction.
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  #4  
Old 10-19-2013, 6:46 AM
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Probably not as that would be a Law abiding citizen's firearm !

don't know for sure though...
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  #5  
Old 10-19-2013, 6:54 AM
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I don't there has been any, since if there was one, Leland Yee would be flagrantly waving the one case for everyone to see to support his bill. OP, are you collecting info for Leland Yee?
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Old 10-19-2013, 7:22 AM
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My assumption is that if the press in CA finds out that an AR is used in any shooting, we are going to hear about it. Maybe you start with the broader question and go from there. If gun has features and no bullet button, we're gonna hear about that too (illegal AW).
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  #7  
Old 10-19-2013, 7:27 AM
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A crime of violence aka 'an actual crime'?

Nothing is impossible, but I would bet my own AR that the statewide and multiyear number is approaching zero.
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  #8  
Old 10-19-2013, 7:28 AM
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i doubt it... why would any criminal follows aw ban law, i.e. santa monica college shooter....
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2013, 7:31 AM
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if they are going to commit murder, why would they not remove the BB?
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  #10  
Old 10-19-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
I'd bet that one has.

But let me re-phrase the question:

Has a bullet-button-equipped Personal Defense Weapon ever been used in a violent crime against a human being with a subsequent arrest and conviction.

As re-phrased, I just don't know. I don't remember hearing of such a case.
No matter how you try and sugar coat it, a gun is a gun.
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  #11  
Old 10-19-2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
if they are going to commit murder, why would they not remove the BB?
No kidding, any criminal with a AR is not going to have a bullet button. Criminals don't want ARs anyways, they want cheap concealable handguns.

We need to bombard Gov Browns office with calls and emails in advance of Yee's next attempt at a bullet ban.

Remind him that bullet button ARs are NOT used in crime, and not a threat to public safety!!!
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  #12  
Old 10-19-2013, 11:28 AM
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It doesn't matter if one has ever been used or not. Even if one WAS used, it doesn't matter when it comes to your personal rights and liberties. My featureless AR, 30rd mags, and standard mag release has never been used in a crime, and it never will be. My rights nor yours ought be dependent on the actions, behavior, or tool of a criminal.
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  #13  
Old 10-19-2013, 11:39 AM
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I'm sure one has.
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  #14  
Old 10-19-2013, 11:44 AM
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We dunno.

Sadly rot-in-hell CGN user 'professorhard' (who appears to have had massive anger+alcohol+steroid issues) killed his girlfriend then himself in San Diego a couple of years ago. There was an AR and a pistol at the scene though I am unsure which was used or not, and the BB status was essentially irrelevant/unknown.

Remember that anyone using/possessing illegal drugs, including pot, while possessing a BB'd rifle, or any gun for that matter, is already committing a crime with that gun too. [The potheads will be along shortly to try to argue 215 overrides Fed law and it doesn't, but their argument won't be too motivated anyway since they're potheads.]
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  #15  
Old 10-19-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
Remember the case of the Sacramento deputies and of ToolboxX, who used the LEO exemption from the roster to get off-roster handguns into the state (they are currently being prosecuted)? They were found out because one of their customers went on a shooting rampage on the peninsula (I think Daly City). That shooter used an assault weapon (I vaguely remember it being something like a Mac-10 or a Tec-9)

1. There are many matters alleged about the user you mentioned that
are being refuted in court. I'll refrain from further comment.

2. I believe the gun involved that shooting incident...
  • wasn't an AW (no threaded barrel). Plenty of unthreaded Mac11s etc are transferred daily in CA via SSE;
  • the recipient I seem to recall was a prohibited person;
  • I seem to recall the cop sold the gun 'paper free' to the miscreant;
  • that cop (now gone) is getting much different treatment than other LEOs;
  • this particular matter is adding radioactivity to other LEOs' matters about nonRostered handgun transfers,
    and the US Attorney up there nevertheless is still a bit lost on some of these matters.
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  #16  
Old 10-19-2013, 11:51 AM
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Here is the thing...

I bet most of us would list Murder as one of the top 3 list of socially unacceptable laws to break.

With that said, the act of Murder itself should trump the tool used to commit such an abominable offence.

Would you care what clothes a carjacker was wearing or how long of a crowbar they use to smash your window?

Would you really care about what gun you get killed with? If the end result is death for you.... it could be a little derringer to a 25mm tank gun.

People need to stop with what makes a weapon more/less legal or dangerous.

I strongly feel that anyone who is planning to go on a rampage, mass shooting spree will ever care for one second that any gun they use is compliant with CA law. Just as a victim would demand the attacker to stop to ensure the attacker will only kill them with a compliant firearm as well.

It is pure ludicrous.
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  #17  
Old 10-19-2013, 1:42 PM
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why in the world would someone intent on committing a crime with a semi auto rifle, do so with a BB?

As we all understand, criminals don't obey laws (by definition).

If someone did (or does) commit a crime with a BB, mental instability would be pretty easy to determine.
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  #18  
Old 10-19-2013, 2:07 PM
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The question is hilarious to me. Why would a criminal neuter their firearm? For all intents and purposes no gun bans exist for criminals.
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Old 10-19-2013, 2:11 PM
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Criminals are not subject to bb laws.
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  #20  
Old 10-19-2013, 2:13 PM
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OP, the firearm laws in CA are not to curtail crime, save lives or help society... they are 100% to rid law abiding citizens of firearms altogether. They know this... it's a control thing and I'm convinced that its an ego thing for many (they make it personal and game like).

Quite pathetic actually.
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  #21  
Old 10-19-2013, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Write Winger View Post
It doesn't matter if one has ever been used or not. Even if one WAS used, it doesn't matter when it comes to your personal rights and liberties. My featureless AR, 30rd mags, and standard mag release has never been used in a crime, and it never will be. My rights nor yours ought be dependent on the actions, behavior, or tool of a criminal.
brings up the obvious (that has been stated boatloads of times) = cars, hammers, bathtubs ice picks, baseball bats, etc, etc, etc... have not been banned. And I GUARANTEE all of them have been used to kill.

The only people that dick around with bullet buttons are those of us subservient subjects that believe in law and order... Control freaks thrive on that and get crazed over their presumed power.
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Old 10-19-2013, 2:20 PM
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"Ok, Billy Bad ***, when I get to the bank door make sure you do a quick turn around, and position the car so that we can do a quick get away. Just like we rehearsed. Oh ****! I forgot my ten round magazine!"
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  #23  
Old 10-19-2013, 2:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
We dunno.

Sadly rot-in-hell CGN user 'professorhard' (who appears to have had massive anger+alcohol+steroid issues) killed his girlfriend then himself in San Diego a couple of years ago. There was an AR and a pistol at the scene though I am unsure which was used or not, and the BB status was essentially irrelevant/unknown.

]
with all due respect... why mention it in the context of the thread topic then?

If your response has to do with drugs and guns, then your post should reflect that as the emphasis (which wouldn't even need the bold blue part)... and is really a different subject altogether.
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Old 10-19-2013, 2:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
brings up the obvious (that has been stated boatloads of times) = cars, hammers, bathtubs ice picks, baseball bats, etc, etc, etc... have not been banned. And I GUARANTEE all of them have been used to kill.

The only people that dick around with bullet buttons are those of us subservient subjects that believe in law and order... Control freaks thrive on that and get crazed over their presumed power.
I recall John Ross writing something about a hypothetical law requiring gun owners to tie ribbons on the barrels of their rifles as an exercise of federal power.

How many idiotic, inane and immoral gun laws do we bow to?

The ability to make your political enemies respond to jump with 'how high?' must be quite a temptation for the malignant narcissists that run sacramento.

Although we are well beyond that game these days. We are looking at the democrat final solution for gun owners.
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Old 10-19-2013, 2:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanPedroShooter View Post
I recall John Ross writing something about a hypothetical law requiring gun owners to tie ribbons on the barrels of their rifles as an exercise of federal power.

How many idiotic, inane and immoral gun laws do we bow to?

The ability to make your political enemies respond to jump with 'how high?' must be quite a temptation for the malignant narcissists that run sacramento.

Although we are well beyond that game these days. We are looking at the democrat final solution for gun owners.
I'm with you brother! And as I've said in other topics, if it were only gun laws ruining CA, there would be hope...

Unfortunately, it's much bigger than just 2A.
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  #26  
Old 10-19-2013, 5:19 PM
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Our United States is in a downward spiral...circling the drain. I can almost feel the tears of lady liberty and the blood of our republic flowing. It's sad! The economy, unemployment, I can go on and on. The really sad part is that the sheep are in line at the slaughter house and don't even know it...or really care.

YES! I know...we all care here...but we are merely a proverbial gnat on the rhino's ball sack. ALL firearm owners across the US must unite and present a concentrated effort in order to make a real dent. Make a real showing. Dressed professionally; speaking with intellect and representing an accurate cross-section of our ranks.

To just have the same 4-8 guys in camo...hanging out like perverts circling a day care just isn't gonna cut it. In fact, it hurts our image...especially if one of them speaks...and inevitably it's the dumbest one in the bunch that they always find and interview.

All kidding aside, we have to unite people. If we can have 5000-10,000 professional looking people show up in front of the state Capitol...WOW...that would be a display that may get the law makers and people of CA to notice that we don't want or need MORE damn gun control.

The only gun control I want is target discrimination and trigger discipline.
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  #27  
Old 10-19-2013, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawtooth View Post
Given how infrequently rifles are used in crimes, it seems even less likely those evil bullet buttons are used in crime.

Can anyone find even a single instance of a bullet button-equipped gun being used in a crime?


You really think Yee and the communist regime care if a BB rifle has been used in a crime?

Brother this is all about disarming the american people to ensure total victory for the democrats. It's right out of Hitlers playbook, disarm your critics and you have no critics.
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  #28  
Old 10-19-2013, 6:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernsnowshoe View Post
You really think Yee and the communist regime care if a BB rifle has been used in a crime?
No. But seems a pretty darn good counter-argument. Not for Yee, but perhaps for those that would be voting on the issue.

If it's the proverbial equivalent of being struck by lightning, then we have to ban lightning too.
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  #29  
Old 10-19-2013, 8:19 PM
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[sarcasm]
If only Christopher Dorner's rifles had bullet buttons on them...
[/sarcasm]
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  #30  
Old 10-19-2013, 8:40 PM
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Why is everyone fighting so hard to keep their weapons neutered?
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  #31  
Old 10-20-2013, 7:11 AM
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even if the answer is "No, a BB equipped firearm has never been used" YL will not give up the fight against them, nor will the zombies who follow him.

We decreased drunk driving accidents and deaths by banning cars and beer, don't you know this?
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  #32  
Old 10-20-2013, 7:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernsnowshoe View Post
You really think Yee and the communist regime care if a BB rifle has been used in a crime?

Brother this is all about disarming the american people to ensure total victory for the democrats. It's right out of Hitlers playbook, disarm your critics and you have no critics.
I think if Yee knew of a single instance, he'd make sure the entire state knew it. The credibility of an actual use of a neutered gun in a killing would be too much gold plated publicity to pass up. Yet, silence on that front......
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  #33  
Old 10-20-2013, 7:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
I think if Yee knew of a single instance, he'd make sure the entire state knew it. The credibility of an actual use of a neutered gun in a killing would be too much gold plated publicity to pass up. Yet, silence on that front......
someone (with media clout) should challenge Yee by making that point... "there has not been a single report of crime with a bullet button, and you want to ban them"... "Bullet Buttons have 'prevented' mass killings, and Yee wants that stopped now"...

all the BS that they spew should be used against him... how could the antis debate a media blitz about Yee wanting to change something that has prevented crime.
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  #34  
Old 10-20-2013, 8:51 AM
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Even if a BB-equipped AR were to be used in a crime, it would still be reported as an "assault weapon".
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  #35  
Old 10-20-2013, 9:45 AM
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Does it even matter? Criminals cant own guns, so they should follow the LAW and none of this would happen! Oh yeah they dont follow laws!
I love how Libs fight to get Criminals out of jail for a second chance then they go on shooting sprees and its gun owners faults.
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  #36  
Old 10-20-2013, 2:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cineski View Post
Why is everyone fighting so hard to keep their weapons neutered?
I wouldn't say that we are. The fight is to keep them from being neutered further, and moreso, to prevent more guns from being banned. I think we could all agree that in a perfect world (and California is far from it), we'd love to pop those stupid bullet buttons off.
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