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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 12-19-2012, 3:58 PM
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Default Could ATF or an EO declare AR15/AK47's NFA weapons?

Could the prez or the ATF declare all evil black rifles NFA and have a 30 day amnesty window to turn them in with or without compensation?

Is it within their power of authority or could they possibly do it saying its what the people want us to do and just do it?

If they did it to the Spas12 and street sweepers they could do it to the AR15's couldn't they?

IM NOT ASKING ABOUT THE FIRESTORM THAT WOULD ENSUE JUST THE FACT IF THEY COULD DO IT?
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:02 PM
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Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
If they did it to the Spas12 and street sweepers they could do it to the AR15's couldn't they?
Those shotguns are imported. They were declared destructive devices by the ATF under their authority granted by the Gun Control Act of 1968 to limit the importation of "non-sporting" firearms.
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Getting called a DOJ shill has become a rite of passage around here. I've certainly been called that more than once - I've even seen Kes get called that. I haven't seen Red-O get called that yet, which is very suspicious to me, and means he's probably a DOJ shill.
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2012, 4:03 PM
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Maybe. Because they have to "name" the model, yes. Ban by features, I don't think so.
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:03 PM
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Legally, no. Illegally, yes. We have the right to due process & the right not to be a witness against ourselves. So they would have to stomp on a lot of our rights if they wanted to come for our guns.


*Just my 2 cents
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
Those shotguns are imported. They were declared destructive devices by the ATF under their authority granted by the Gun Control Act of 1968 to limit the importation of "non-sporting" firearms.
If they did not appear in "The Terminator" I bet you can still get them today!
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:09 PM
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ATF can't declare squat.

EO has no real limits, but it has no real power. EO's only have power because people tend to obey the President. There's nothing in the penal code for "disobeying an EO" (that I can find -- correct me if anyone knows of anything); they therefore have nothing to charge you with.

Anyways, the courts have overturned two EO's in the past, so injunction on any EO + Alan Gura and we're GTG.
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by speedrrracer View Post
ATF can't declare squat.

EO has no real limits, but it has no real power. EO's only have power because people tend to obey the President. There's nothing in the penal code for "disobeying an EO" (that I can find -- correct me if anyone knows of anything); they therefore have nothing to charge you with.

Anyways, the courts have overturned two EO's in the past, so injunction on any EO + Alan Gura and we're GTG.
Well, while I doubt an EO will be forthcoming, I wouldn't exactly debate it's gravity with the FBI and/or CIA when they knock on your door as THEY tend to give those orders some weight - and regardless of the legal outcome - in the end, it always ends up badly for the person on the business end of the MP-5.
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
Those shotguns are imported. They were declared destructive devices by the ATF under their authority granted by the Gun Control Act of 1968 to limit the importation of "non-sporting" firearms.
They also had to provide owners of those firearms a period in which to register them without charge. I went through this with my USAS-12.
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:20 PM
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The 'streetsweepers' were vulnerable to NFA DD status due to the fact that the bore diameter is greater than 0.5" which triggers a 'sporting purposes' determination.
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:22 PM
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Yes he could, federal constructive possession laws are no joke and open to ATF rulings.
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:24 PM
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=296873

Not directly on topic, but here's some good reading on chinese and non-sporting (1989) import restrictions.

Last edited by amd64; 12-19-2012 at 4:27 PM..
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:26 PM
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NFA status wouldn't be enough for them because it would still make AR-15s and AK-47s lawful to acquire (with a few more hoops and a tax stamp) in a lot of states. There are currently MANY states where SBR AR-15s are OK with an NFA tax stamp and there are plenty of them in those states... Interesting how mass murders just happen to take place in states with the most restrictions and not in states where machine guns and SBRs are available... Just sayin!
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djandj View Post
Well, while I doubt an EO will be forthcoming, I wouldn't exactly debate it's gravity with the FBI and/or CIA when they knock on your door as THEY tend to give those orders some weight - and regardless of the legal outcome - in the end, it always ends up badly for the person on the business end of the MP-5.
The FBI doesn't have the manpower to confiscate any significant fraction of the firearms in the USA, at least, not in our lifetimes. By the time they got to the 2nd house, the injunction would be in effect, and they'd have to stop.

The CIA has "no police or law enforcement functions, either at home or abroad".

Let's keep the tin-foil hats on the table, for now
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Rockso View Post
The 'streetsweepers' were vulnerable to NFA DD status due to the fact that the bore diameter is greater than 0.5" which triggers a 'sporting purposes' determination.
Any imported firearm is subject to the "sporting purposes" provisions. I think you will agree that how they arrive at their determinations is often rather arbitrary.
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Getting called a DOJ shill has become a rite of passage around here. I've certainly been called that more than once - I've even seen Kes get called that. I haven't seen Red-O get called that yet, which is very suspicious to me, and means he's probably a DOJ shill.
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:36 PM
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The beginning of something far worse then the tragedy that occured will ensue.
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:36 PM
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When it comes to such a radical concept, I always look at what else could be done that way. For example, the NIH declaring "abortion is murder" and trying to avoid Roe vs. Wade? Not likely to happen.
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
Any imported firearm is subject to the "sporting purposes" provisions. I think you will agree that how they arrive at their determinations is often rather arbitrary.
Determination of 'sporting purposes' for imported guns can only make the guns ineligible for importation. Determination of 'sporting purposes' for bores above 0.5" diameter can reclassify existing guns as NFA regulated. Big difference.
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Rockso View Post
Determination of 'sporting purposes' for imported guns can only make the guns ineligible for importation. Determination of 'sporting purposes' for bores above 0.5" diameter can reclassify existing guns as NFA regulated. Big difference.
Indeed, I understand. A firearm whose importation is banned is grandfathered (those already in the country are not affected). A firearm that is reclassified as NFA needs a stamp.
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Getting called a DOJ shill has become a rite of passage around here. I've certainly been called that more than once - I've even seen Kes get called that. I haven't seen Red-O get called that yet, which is very suspicious to me, and means he's probably a DOJ shill.
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