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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #41  
Old 12-14-2012, 9:04 PM
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isnt the chevy small block the oldest continuosly produced engine in the world? i vote for a chevy or toyota. im biased i guess since my yota has a chevy small block v8

here she is a little muddy and slightly flexed
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  #42  
Old 12-15-2012, 4:58 AM
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How about a Chevota

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  #43  
Old 12-15-2012, 4:58 AM
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  #44  
Old 12-15-2012, 4:59 AM
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ok. nevermind.
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  #45  
Old 12-15-2012, 5:00 AM
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  #46  
Old 12-15-2012, 5:53 AM
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Lot of opinions but NOT a lot of good ones.

Just to prequalify this, I am an off road instructor and have wheeled with every vehicle mentioned.

There are only really 3 options at the top of the list

Older pre 89 toyota diesel or 22re engine
blazer or suburban
Jeep, cherokee or wrangler


As for the toyota you could get them with solid axle front and in diesel but the 22re 4cylinder is really reliable engine and billions made so easy to find parts. no big upgrades to these since they were built right from the beginning.

the blazer is an Icon and parts are bountiful, came in diesel and 350 and once again there were billions made. Pre 82 diesels had high nickel blocks and held up forever. needs suspension mods to beef up the axles and steering.

Jeeps are dime a dozen and parts are eveywhere. 4litre straight 6 is a great motor and upgrades are cheep on these. I wish they made these in diesel. and a Rubicon is called that for a reason.

Cars not to get!
Fords: other than early trucks with front solid axles the Suspension is horrible off road and will limit you.
Land Rovers. Greatest vehicle on and off road but parts and computers for days.

BTW I have a land rover Discovery and would not trade it for any of the above. Built right from the word go and will take you places you would not take any of the other options without upgrades. Downfall as i said is part are expensive and not as available but i want strength and that is how they are built. Solid axle and comfortable.
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  #47  
Old 12-15-2012, 6:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ki6ojv View Post
.

Cars not to get!
Fords: other than early trucks with front solid axles the Suspension is horrible off road and will limit you.
Where did you pull this information out of?
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  #48  
Old 12-15-2012, 6:35 AM
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I'd go with 97-04 4 runner. They get decent gas mileage parts are very easy to find ( if you need them) really easy to work on.
Most of the drive train parts are interchangable with the tacomas, tundras and some other models as well. I have a 98 tacoma (4cyl 4x4 5spd) 97 t100 (3.4l v6 4x4) and 04 tacoma (3.4l v6 4x4) and they all use the same oil filter, and share many other of the same parts.
You really can't go wrong with toyota
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  #49  
Old 12-15-2012, 6:41 AM
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Toyota Hilux. Top Gear proved you can't kill one.
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  #50  
Old 12-15-2012, 6:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horton Fenty View Post
Toyota Hilux. Top Gear proved you can't kill one.
Soo true, too bad finding one in diesel like they tested is like finding hens teeth.
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  #51  
Old 12-15-2012, 1:08 PM
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jeep cherokees of any year have mostly interchangable parts since they were mostly the same from 1988 to 2001. next time you go out see how many cherokeesyou see and youll see that they are not in short supply. plus they are easy to work on. the same pretty much goes for wranglers. ive had both and they both do very well on any terrain
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  #52  
Old 12-15-2012, 2:24 PM
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[QUOTE=ki6ojv;9925777]

Just to prequalify this, I am an off road instructor and have wheeled with every vehicle mentioned.
Land Rovers. Greatest vehicle on and off road
QUOTE]

I have only wheeled easy stuff like rubicon, dusy, hammers, etc, so my opinion may not be worth as much as yours, but land rovers don't make it anywhere near the top of the list. I have seen a few of them on the rubicon over the years(never seen them on the dusy, fordyce or hammers)and it was a rock-stacking, active spotter event that I had to wait behind for half an hour. Put down motor trend and 4 wheeler magazine and go wheeling and see what works.
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  #53  
Old 12-15-2012, 2:33 PM
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I own 3 4wds (Subaru, Power Wagon and Discovery) and I only see two choices. It's either a pack animal (horse, mule, donkey, llama, alpaca, etc.) or a mountain bike.
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  #54  
Old 12-15-2012, 2:47 PM
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75 f250
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  #55  
Old 12-15-2012, 4:02 PM
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Smart Car for the win...if it gets stuck just pick it up...seen this done.
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  #56  
Old 12-15-2012, 4:15 PM
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In a SHTF scenario you want no computers, easy parts availability and rugged.

Something with a Chevy 350 in it is going to be the winner.

I like the older 4 runners - Pre-86, but in 85 they went EFI. Not as many on the road as stuff with small block chevys.

Every parts house carries all sorts of parts for SBC and some carry crate motors (If you had to break into a summit racing warehouse).

I would say a mid 80's Suburban before they went TBI. We have an 88 Suburban that is TBI. It's fine, but it still relies on a computer. We could convert it to carb relatively easily if we needed to.

As has been mentioned, be prepared for the maintenance. It's often not big, but it can be constant. Not necessarily more than others, but the vehicles are old and things are wearing out.

Just the other day, our Suburban started to fall on it's face when giving it gas. Now I have to diagnose and figure out what is causing the problem. At the same time, even if a particular part is not causing the problem, while I am in there taking things apart there are some compelling reasons to just change the part so it doesn't go out next year. For instance, the EGR valve on the suburban could be the problem. It may not be as I haven't tested it yet. It's also 25 years old and has close to 200K miles on it so I might change it anyway to ensure it won't be a problem in a year. That part is $60-$80. Those little things add up.
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  #57  
Old 12-15-2012, 4:48 PM
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I am thinking of getting a KLR 650. The main reason, I miss riding. But the more I think about it, it would make a great BOV. Don’t have to worry about traffic jams, fast, go anywhere, can carry a couple days supplies with boxes, inexpensive, has the range to make it to my families ranch on one tank of gas.
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  #58  
Old 12-15-2012, 5:06 PM
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My ultimate SHTF vehicle will be an 04-06 2500 4x4 suburban.

Of course. NOT stock!!

Straight axled, coil overed, 4-6" lift with 35" tires and bead locks. Full Exo cage with a huge rack holding a couple full size spares, solid steel huge zombie bumpers fully outfitted with winches front and rear and of course you can't forget a full line up of Rigid LED light bars all around...

And last but certainly not least by any means is the drive terrain!

I'm going to have a fully built twin turbo 2006 LBZ duramax backed by a bullet proof fully built Allison. Tuned to run on bio diesel and have a couple 50+gal diesel tanks outfitted somewhere around the rig to hold up my 1000+mi range expectations.

Wait till I win the lotto the old lady's burb is goin under the knife!!

Big, loud, and American made... Just how it was ment to be.
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  #59  
Old 12-15-2012, 5:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyking13 View Post
This is what powers the new 2013 Ford F150.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tEqwXrqzH4

PM me if you want to make an outstanding deal on one. Ford dealer on CA central coast for more than 25 years.

www.jimvreelandford.com
Already a Ford fan and have been running F150s for years.. video definitely brought a smile to my face.
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  #60  
Old 12-15-2012, 5:14 PM
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Something like a JK jeep. Straight front and rear axles, enclosed cab that you can sleep in, mostly a wrangler drivetrain, and a very capable 4x4 with only a few mods. They are small enough to go more places than other longer wheel based vehicles, and big enough to haul a LOT of gear with a roof rack and a full rear end.


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  #61  
Old 12-15-2012, 6:45 PM
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My vote would be the 60-series Toyota Landcruiser. They were available in the US from 82-87 or so. Carbureted dinosaur with a 4speed manual and solid front axle. Very cable rig that can haul the family and bug-out supplies.
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  #62  
Old 12-15-2012, 7:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
Something like a JK jeep. Straight front and rear axles, enclosed cab that you can sleep in, mostly a wrangler drivetrain, and a very capable 4x4 with only a few mods. They are small enough to go more places than other longer wheel based vehicles, and big enough to haul a LOT of gear....
I have to agree on either the JK jeeps or ANY pre-TBI smb Chevy. Im surprised I'm not seeing more practical Toyota posts. The old Landcruisers are great but rare. What about 1980s Toyota mini-trucks? Theyre not full size but theyre reliable.

Sorry Ford guys but Im not seeing any strong recommendations here. Any new model 1990 or newer sounds good but how are they to work on with limited tools? Same with whoever said an 04-06 Tahoe. Guys, you gotta be thinking what 4x4 when SHTF is going to be running long-term. You may need to scavenge parts with nothing more than basic wrenches.
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  #63  
Old 12-16-2012, 1:19 AM
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In SHTF, you are not trying to wheel or do crazy 4x4 on purpose. You are not trying to be king of the hill. You are trying to be conservative and get the hell out of harm's way beforehand with enough supplies, self defense items, and camping gear to last you and your companions awhile.

You also want enough GVWR to haul enough stuff. I used to own an 80's Toyota 4runner that was completely built for 4x4, camping, & survival. I had all essential spares including anything electrical that would be blown-out in an EMP. Really though, the biggest problem was on-board fuel and driving range. I literally could not carry enough supplies or fuel...it was either basic supplies + little extra fuel OR barely any supplies + more fuel. With my 4x4 upgrades I was already something like 5750 lbs with me onboard (6200 GWVR IIRC)....and that was w/o any extra fuel or self defense onboard!

It was not enough. I found in my case the only vehicle that could handle a reasonable amount of gear and supplies was a full-size 3/4 ton truck. Not 1/2 ton....3/4 ton. Domestic 3/4 tons are commercial vehicles & can haul a crap-load of extra-fuel in the pickup bed. There are in-bed tanks designed to add capacity....my friend's Ford F250 has a ~35 gallon onboard tank and another 115 gallons in his bed. His range is like 2000 miles fully loaded. And to echo other posters....with solid f/r axles, diesel, and mechanical injection.

My SHTF vehicle of choice would be a 94-97 Dodge Ram 2500/3500 4x4 with cummins diesel engine, no crappy glow plugs, and mechanical injection. They get 22mpg on the road rolling 8,800 lbs. These are commercial grade engines installed in buses, tractors and dump trucks that came from the factory with Denso alternators and starters....400-500k mile rigs not uncommon!

A larger vehicle also has more "surface area" from which to take incoming fire...it also has enough GWVR to run armor plate to defeat RIFLE fire with enough capacity left over to actually haul supplies. My taco just could not do this nor would it present a large enough object/ % chance to spread-out the incoming projectiles and actively lower my % chance of getting hit.
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  #64  
Old 12-16-2012, 6:42 AM
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I own 3 4wds (Subaru, Power Wagon and Discovery) and I only see two choices. It's either a pack animal (horse, mule, donkey, llama, alpaca, etc.) or a mountain bike.
I understand your logic but if you are limited to walking speed you are a sitting duck.
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  #65  
Old 12-16-2012, 6:47 AM
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I understand your logic but if you are limited to walking speed you are a sitting duck.
Any place your going to be with a pack animal everyone will be walking.
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  #66  
Old 12-16-2012, 7:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exocet5 View Post

My SHTF vehicle of choice would be a 94-97 Dodge Ram 2500/3500 4x4 with cummins diesel engine, no crappy glow plugs, and mechanical injection. They get 22mpg on the road rolling 8,800 lbs. These are commercial grade engines installed in buses, tractors and dump trucks that came from the factory with Denso alternators and starters....400-500k mile rigs not uncommon!
Slow down there partner. Not happening
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  #67  
Old 12-16-2012, 9:56 AM
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wow...you guys are way off base... 1980's era Diesel Hummer...hands down, /thread
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:23 AM
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A little big and poor mileage. Not my cup of tea for a survival rig you can easily pull parts off. Yes I know they go a long ways before needing anything, but they'll still need things. Good luck finding parts.
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  #69  
Old 12-16-2012, 10:26 AM
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Toyota Tacoma 4x4, new or old OR the foreign hi-lux version are some of the most capable, durable and dependable off road production trucks I have seen. This coming from a former Jeep CJ "purist" who CANNOT WAIT to sell off my F150 STX 4x4 to get a Tacoma...

Just MHO the worst off road (stock) vehicle I've ever owned was a 2000 GMC Denali, which was an absolute lemon and mechanical disaster.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:16 AM
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Diesel powered Landcruiser.

Now you can close the thread.
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  #71  
Old 12-16-2012, 11:37 AM
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wow...you guys are way off base... 1980's era Diesel Hummer...hands down, /thread
The MT mechanics in the unit I work for would beg to differ with you. Things are always braking on these. Plus from my own experience during my time in the Marines and after the engine is ridiculously underpowered in the pre-turbos and not much better with the turbo. Unless you are sticking to open country it is very easy to find yourself too wide to fit and in densely wooded areas you are pretty much limited to roads. The suspension travel is basically nil, they high-center easily, and need to use speed to negotiate many obstacles.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:41 AM
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Slow down there partner. Not happening
What's not happening? I know several people that get 20+mpg with 3000+lbs of truck camper on board their early Cummins Dodge.

IIRC the best would be the first year of the 24V engine as they still had totally mechanical controls.
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  #73  
Old 12-16-2012, 11:47 AM
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The 2007-2011 Jeep JK Wrangler shares drivetrain components with the Dodge Caravan family (3.8L V6) which has been around in many vehicles for years. It's not a powerhorse, but in a SHTF you should easily be able to find drivetrain parts.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:52 AM
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The MT mechanics in the unit I work for would beg to differ with you. Things are always braking on these. Plus from my own experience during my time in the Marines and after the engine is ridiculously underpowered in the pre-turbos and not much better with the turbo. Unless you are sticking to open country it is very easy to find yourself too wide to fit and in densely wooded areas you are pretty much limited to roads. The suspension travel is basically nil, they high-center easily, and need to use speed to negotiate many obstacles.
Agree dude, the 6.2/5 was a joke



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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
What's not happening? I know several people that get 20+mpg with 3000+lbs of truck camper on board their early Cummins Dodge.

IIRC the best would be the first year of the 24V engine as they still had totally mechanical controls.
Cool story bro.

1998.5 24v was not mechanical
The 12v was mechanical. You can do a p pump conversion on a 5.9 24v to make it mechanical
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:00 PM
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Nevermind about the Wrangler, I change my vote to Reliant Robin. If I have to go out, it might as well be as funny as possible...4x4 be damned.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
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1998.5 24v was not mechanical
The 12v was mechanical. You can do a p pump conversion on a 5.9 24v to make it mechanical
My mistake then. For some reason I thought I remembered hearing the first year was still all mechanical.



For the other posters unless you are looking for replacement parts in junkyards or scavenging from other equally questionable sources, the older vehicles are getting hard to find "in stock" parts for at your average Kragen, Shucks, Vatozone, etc. How many times have you heard, "we will have it here in a couple of days" from the counter guy? So you go from finding the easily recognizable corner store to figuring out where the local distribution warehouse is. With power out, good luck trying to find what you need in those huge stocks of part number only marked boxes.

Last edited by Steve_In_29; 12-16-2012 at 12:14 PM.. Reason: added more info
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:10 PM
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Smaller vehicles, Jeeps, Yotas and even my Early Bronco, while great for getting around are simply not gonna carry the amounts of supplies/equipment you are going to need. A SRW 1ton truck is probably the best bet. Early Ford/GM/Dodge 1tons are exactly the same size as their 1/2tons and the later SuperDutys are only slightly bigger.

Avoid independent front ends though as the object now isn't ride quality but brute strength.

Wife will drive our F350, while I will be in the EB scouting ahead if necessary. Though since we already live where many people would be bugging out to, we most likely won't have to go any where.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:41 PM
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I picked up a M1008 CUCV (84 chevy 1-ton diesel pickup) a few years ago and I love it. It had been maintained very well and runs great. With some mild suspension and chassis work, along with Humvee beadlocks and 37" tires, it's extremely capable off road. It came with 4.56 gears in a 14-bolt floating rear and Dana 60 front. If you break one of those, you're doing something WAY wrong. Even if you do manage to break one, replacements can be found under a variety of Ford, GM and Dodge vehicles. It serves as my weekend-project/dump-run/just-in-case vehicle.

The Detroit 6.2s were nothing special, power wise, but unless you're an idiot, they will last a LONG time. The Stanadyn fuel pump on them may not be the best, but that same pump body can be found on many tractors and farm implements. I have several floating around my shop, on a variety of equipment.

The blazers are getting harder to find at government auction, and clean ones bring BIG money, but you can still find the pickups for reasonable prices.
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  #79  
Old 12-16-2012, 12:53 PM
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El Toro El Toro is offline
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For the other posters unless you are looking for replacement parts in junkyards or scavenging from other equally questionable sources, the older vehicles are getting hard to find "in stock" parts for at your average Kragen, Shucks, Vatozone, etc. How many times have you heard, "we will have it here in a couple of days" from the counter guy? So you go from finding the easily recognizable corner store to figuring out where the local distribution warehouse is. With power out, good luck trying to find what you need in those huge stocks of part number only marked boxes.
I was assuming there wouldnt be any open for business anyhow

But if your BO location is 300-700 miles of alternate route driving, and theres a mechanical problem youre going to be making field repairs. What vehicle is going to be easily repaired? There will be alot of vehicles dead alongside highways. If you drive a commonly found vehicle then you'll have a better chance of scavenging parts. But I want a 4x4 not a Camry, and there will be alot of those abandoned. Newer trucks are nice but they come with alot of complex technology. Older trucks are getting more scarce but the tradeoff is theres a huge abundance.

So here's the list so far:
1973-87 Chevy smb
1994-97 Dodge RAM with Cummins diesel
Jeep Cherokee (need model/year)
2007-11 Jeep JK Wrangler
Toyota Tacoma (need years)
1980?? Toyota 4Runner

I left out the CCUV because that 6.2 Diesel is crap.

Any others?
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  #80  
Old 12-16-2012, 12:57 PM
xpbprox xpbprox is offline
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missing Any ford truck with a 351c/w or 302. 80s 90s era
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