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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #841  
Old 04-12-2013, 11:32 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if every plaintiff in the lawsuit gets their firearms released in the next few days. I'm pretty sure mine getting released right after the last update was no coincidence since it wouldn't be hard for DOJ to figure out which delay was mine by looking at my screen name. In any case I hope this puts an end to these violations of our civil rights.

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  #842  
Old 04-12-2013, 11:34 AM
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Great work CGF!

I've got two guys waiting since January!
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  #843  
Old 04-12-2013, 11:53 AM
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Great job CGF! Hopefully the lawsuit will light a match under their rear
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  #844  
Old 04-12-2013, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Friday, April 12, 2013

The Calguns Foundation, 7 Californians Sue Attorney General Kamala Harris, DOJ Over Gun Delays

SAN CARLOS, CA – The Calguns Foundation has filed a lawsuit on behalf of seven California residents today against Attorney General Kamala Harris, the California Department of Justice, and DOJ Bureau of Firearms Chief Stephen Lindley. The case challenges the DOJ’s policy of requiring some firearm purchasers to prove their legal standing to take possession of acquired firearms and forcing them to wait beyond the statutory 10-day waiting period.

One plaintiff in the case, Daniel Schoepf of Long Beach, California, was denied his fundamental right to keep and bear arms for self-defense even after DOJ told him that he was legally eligible to purchase and possess firearms.

In 1984, Schoepf was detained in Los Angeles County for having two tablets in his pocket that were later discovered to be common, non-prescription pills. The detectives subsequently released Schoepf and no charges were filed. In 2006, DOJ firearms section Program Manager Steve Buford sent Schoepf a letter stating that he was eligible to purchase and possess firearms; however, in 2012, DOJ reversed that position and instructed Schoepf’s local firearms dealer to hold back delivery of Schoepf’s gun.

“I know I’m not alone in this, that DOJ is wrongly denying many Californians their Second Amendment rights just like they are mine,” said Schoepf. “I’m not a criminal and certainly not a disqualified convict but am a law abiding citizen with my Second Amendment rights fully intact. They left me no choice but to fight this injustice in court.”

“Over the past year, the DOJ has been directing California gun dealers to delay the release of firearms to people eligible to possess them – sometimes indefinitely,“ said Jason Davis, attorney for The Calguns Foundation. “The DOJ simply has no legal authority to justify their policy.”

The DOJ claims that these delays are primarily due to lack of information in their criminal history databases. In a July 2011 Los Angeles Times article, assistant attorney general Travis LeBlanc said the DOJ’s criminal records database system was “shoddy,” with the ‘guilty’, ‘not guilty’, or ‘case dismissed’ disposition information missing for about 7.7 million of the 16.4 million arrest records entered into the database over the last decade – and presumably much more for older cases.

“In essence, the DOJ is relying upon their improperly-maintained database to deny the fundamental rights of individuals,” said Gene Hoffman, Chairman of The Calguns Foundation. “That policy is entirely unacceptable and we look forward to putting an end to it.”

The attorney for plaintiffs in the lawsuit, Victor Otten, agrees.

“Our clients follow the law and so should the DOJ,” said Otten. “The DOJ is gleefully enforcing a policy that deprives my clients of their civil rights. The arrogance of the Department to think that it can abrogate the Constitution and statutory duties set by the Legislature is very unsettling.”

“This case really underscores the value of our DOJ Watch program,” said Brandon Combs, Executive Director of The Calguns Foundation. “Attorney General Harris’s hostility towards some civil rights predictably resulted in a shift away from former Attorney General Brown’s correct application of the law – and we are here to hold her accountable.”

The lawsuit is entitled Schoepf, et. al. vs. Kamala Harris, et. al. A copy of the complaint may be viewed or downloaded at http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/wp-...-complaint.pdf.

The Calguns Foundation (www.calgunsfoundation.org) is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization which serves its members and the public by providing Second Amendment-related education, strategic litigation, and the defense of innocent California gun owners from improper or malicious prosecution. The Calguns Foundation seeks to inform government and protect the rights of individuals to acquire, own, and lawfully use firearms in California. Supporters may visit http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/donate to join or donate to CGF.
THANK YOU GUY I HOPE THIS HELPS ALL OF US!
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  #845  
Old 04-12-2013, 12:37 PM
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thank you, thank you. i too hope our property will be released soon. i plan to dros something else right away to check. anybody have any pointers on ar's for a first timer?
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  #846  
Old 04-12-2013, 1:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDay View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if every plaintiff in the lawsuit gets their firearms released in the next few days. I'm pretty sure mine getting released right after the last update was no coincidence since it wouldn't be hard for DOJ to figure out which delay was mine by looking at my screen name. In any case I hope this puts an end to these violations of our civil rights.

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and I would hope that CGF didn't list every single potential plaintiff in the suit. As CADOJ tries to moot the lawsuit by processing the DROS for the plaintiffs, CGF can amend with new plaintiffs. And perhaps CGF's inclusion as a plaintiff can help maintain the lawsuit even if CADOJ clears every personal plaintiff.
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  #847  
Old 04-12-2013, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
and I would hope that CGF didn't list every single potential plaintiff in the suit. As CADOJ tries to moot the lawsuit by processing the DROS for the plaintiffs, CGF can amend with new plaintiffs. And perhaps CGF's inclusion as a plaintiff can help maintain the lawsuit even if CADOJ clears every personal plaintiff.
Niiiiiice
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  #848  
Old 04-12-2013, 2:38 PM
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Quote:
And perhaps CGF's inclusion as a plaintiff can help maintain the lawsuit even if CADOJ clears every personal plaintiff.
Even i will get my FA released,i don't think i will give up on this lawsuit, i still would like to know why i was delayed (92 days and counting) for no particular reason,as far as i'm never had ANY kind of problems with my record.Or may be next time i need to do my taxes i will tell IRS to wait a bit,"i'm busy".
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  #849  
Old 04-12-2013, 3:36 PM
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Hey what do you know? After 3 months of being ignored by DOJ my hold is being released. They woman at DOJ was just as confused as I was as to why there was a hold put on my transfer. Thanks CGF for putting the screws to DOJ!
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  #850  
Old 04-12-2013, 3:44 PM
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Default Thanks for the Help!

As one of the 7 petitioners referenced in your press release, allow me to say thank you for your help in this matter. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out what to do about this (and I don't have a lot of hair to devote to such frustrations).

So while I'm only on day 45 of my open-ended and totally unjustified delay (I know there are several folks in the 90+ range), I'm happy to see progress nonetheless.

May you prevail in ALL your battles with the anti-gun nuts...
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  #851  
Old 04-12-2013, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafarer View Post
As one of the 7 petitioners referenced in your press release, allow me to say thank you for your help in this matter. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out what to do about this (and I don't have a lot of hair to devote to such frustrations).

So while I'm only on day 45 of my open-ended and totally unjustified delay (I know there are several folks in the 90+ range), I'm happy to see progress nonetheless.

May you prevail in ALL your battles with the anti-gun nuts...
Yes and hopefully it fixes the problems that we all are having with this issue. Hopefully
thank you Calgunsfoundation!
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  #852  
Old 04-12-2013, 6:04 PM
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Please keep us updated. I would love to know if they are starting to lift the delays after this.
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  #853  
Old 04-14-2013, 12:13 PM
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Good job Cal guns! Im on day 65 of my delay, I hope this helps us all.
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  #854  
Old 04-14-2013, 8:11 PM
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I was so happy to read this! I was delayed and I have NO criminal record. I was more fortunate than most on here and was able to pick up my FA 3 days after my original pick up date. Get'em CGF!!!
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  #855  
Old 04-15-2013, 1:53 AM
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I just got word of my delay this morning by turners. The only thing I can think of is.

I had a temp RO by a crazy ex and I was arrested then changed to a detain by cops when I called on my crazy ex gf. After she she hit me many times with a weapon. They have to arrested someone for a DV call. because was acting "weird" and was male, so they "arrested" me. sat in lock up for 2 hours. got to talk to a detective. got changed to a detainment. I pressed charges on my exgf. but nothing ever came of it. I had a serious concussion. took me a year to heal from. And I don't trust cops anymore. I won't call them again.
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  #856  
Old 04-15-2013, 8:22 AM
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This is the reason to donate to them. Excellent work CGF. Keep up the good work and to those that were unjustly delayed let us hope the DOJ learned a lesson but I doubt it. IMO these delays are a result of sandy hook.
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  #857  
Old 04-15-2013, 9:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
IMO these delays are a result of sandy hook.
These delays started early last year.

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  #858  
Old 04-16-2013, 7:06 AM
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118 days and counting............when will this madness end!
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  #859  
Old 04-16-2013, 7:38 AM
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127 geez just deny me already so i can challenge it. iv'e never done anything that would make me a prohibited person. i read the list and it's all stuff l wouldn't do.
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  #860  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:19 PM
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Denial of a civil right because the bureaucracy can not or will not process applications in a timely manner. Shameful just shameful.
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  #861  
Old 04-16-2013, 2:02 PM
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I am glad I donated earlier this year. Thank you, THANK YOU for pressing this issue.

Next is the legal battle to over-turn the crap that Sacramento is about to shove down our throats. But this was a much needed suit.
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  #862  
Old 04-16-2013, 2:16 PM
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Originally Posted by drdarrin@sbcglobal.net View Post
Denial of a civil right because the bureaucracy can not or will not process applications in a timely manner. Shameful just shameful.
COULDNT AGREE MORE!
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  #863  
Old 04-17-2013, 5:27 PM
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It's all about the DOJ making as much go by hoping that the state senate will make find illegal so ghey don't have to worry about backgroun checks .
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  #864  
Old 04-17-2013, 11:22 PM
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Just picked up my fa yesterday. No delay luckily. Glad I wasn't one of the random people chosen to be delayed.
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  #865  
Old 04-18-2013, 8:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
Ya this is BS, especially for people who already own guns.

Now Yee wants YEARLY background checks? How's the hell are they going to do that? This I hope will be the death of the DROS, well see.
This, if it passed, would be a big, bonus fund-raiser besides being a hobble on all legal gun owners (LE and state officials exempted, of course).
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  #866  
Old 04-18-2013, 1:40 PM
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120 Days................ What are my options?




Can you get added to the lawsuit?
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  #867  
Old 04-18-2013, 2:35 PM
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Default mrrabbit, post #754

Uhhhmmmm, how do you know about things that will occur in 2 days? Your post is dated Mar. 30, 2013, but according to my sundial, it's only the 18th....?
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  #868  
Old 04-18-2013, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jdoane9724 View Post
Uhhhmmmm, how do you know about things that will occur in 2 days? Your post is dated Mar. 30, 2013, but according to my sundial, it's only the 18th....?
huh

his post on on March 30 related to a webpage dated March 30. today is APRIL 18.
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  #869  
Old 04-18-2013, 2:59 PM
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Default Mrrabbit and all,

Ok, sorry, I can't read without my glasses. My apologies to all.

Sucks getting old......
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  #870  
Old 04-19-2013, 12:40 PM
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Default Thank you

Thank you! Been delayed since late Dec. call and they taunet you to get an attorney. Well some of us can't afford an attorney. Had to scrape 300 together to buy my firearm. I have the PFC in my posetion and have never had a problem. It's not right! And I have been patient. The worst is they showed they can do what they want, when they want. I'm glad someone we donate to is finally willing to challenge this ridiculous policy.
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  #871  
Old 04-19-2013, 10:46 PM
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Alright guys, since the DOJ doesn't seem to want to help us out over the phone, it seems like there's nothing much you can do about it right? Well, a couple of days after I was notified of my delay (I have since been approved) I sent an email to the DOJ via their website. link: http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/contact

In the e-mail I stated I had been delayed without reason and would like to discuss my case and help fix the problem, but since I was approved 2 weeks later I didn't think much of it when they never responded. Well today, (almost 3 weeks after I sent them that e-mail) I got a call from the DOJ asking if the issue had been fixed and I had been verified. Judging from that time frame, I'd say they are backed up about 2-3 weeks at this point.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, E-mail them! Even if they don't get back to you right away, they will call you sooner or later. It seems to be one of the only ways you will be able to get an actual person to discuss your case and try to help you out with it. Good luck guys.
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  #872  
Old 04-20-2013, 10:09 AM
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They don't care about giving our property Cuz they want to confiscate it. Here we go.........

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_3117238.html
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  #873  
Old 04-20-2013, 10:21 AM
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Well i'm over 100 days right now,so sending them e-mail won't make it worse :-) E-mail send,i will let you guys now if i got any feedback from DOJ.
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  #874  
Old 04-22-2013, 1:01 PM
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Default Email likely won't help...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_memo View Post
Alright guys, since the DOJ doesn't seem to want to help us out over the phone, it seems like there's nothing much you can do about it right? Well, a couple of days after I was notified of my delay (I have since been approved) I sent an email to the DOJ via their website. link: http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/contact

In the e-mail I stated I had been delayed without reason and would like to discuss my case and help fix the problem, but since I was approved 2 weeks later I didn't think much of it when they never responded. Well today, (almost 3 weeks after I sent them that e-mail) I got a call from the DOJ asking if the issue had been fixed and I had been verified. Judging from that time frame, I'd say they are backed up about 2-3 weeks at this point.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, E-mail them! Even if they don't get back to you right away, they will call you sooner or later. It seems to be one of the only ways you will be able to get an actual person to discuss your case and try to help you out with it. Good luck guys.
I'm on day 55 of my delay and I have sent 3 different emails to that email address, at various points in time over those 55 days. And like you, in each case I received a pleasant (well, patronizing would be a better word) phone response, but not a helpful one. In each case I was told to basically cool my heels, these things take time, we're really backed up, thanks for the offer to help but you can't, etc. I think the reason you received such a moderately friendly and helpful response was because your issue had already been sorted out, so it's easy to sound caring and helpful when they know there is no longer a problem. I speak from experience, however, in saying that if your email (and subsequent phone call) had occurred DURING the time of your delay, they likely would not have been as solicitous.
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Old 04-24-2013, 5:56 AM
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Hi,
I'm new to the forum. I'm floating around in the "delay" fog, also.
I've been a L.A. City employee for 13 years. I have no felony convictions. My last firearm purchase was 20 years ago. In the past five years, I've been fingerprinted and background checked b the FBI and Department of Homeland Security, as part of my job requirement. I've called the perpetually busy DOJ number with no luck. I've emailed DOJ with no response. I will mail a letter next, I guess. Don't know what else to do.
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  #876  
Old 04-24-2013, 9:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyFord View Post
Hi,
I'm new to the forum. I'm floating around in the "delay" fog, also.
I've been a L.A. City employee for 13 years. I have no felony convictions. My last firearm purchase was 20 years ago. In the past five years, I've been fingerprinted and background checked b the FBI and Department of Homeland Security, as part of my job requirement. I've called the perpetually busy DOJ number with no luck. I've emailed DOJ with no response. I will mail a letter next, I guess. Don't know what else to do.
best thing to do is donate where you can, study here and elsewhere online to do with your constitutional rights & strap in, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

135 days
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  #877  
Old 04-24-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefly-2 View Post
best thing to do is donate where you can, study here and elsewhere online to do with your constitutional rights & strap in, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

135 days

I think you called that one!
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  #878  
Old 04-24-2013, 1:39 PM
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delay lifted! 118 days. 4/23 made my weekly doj call to 3752# and got a ring tone for once. let it ring 20+ times until a young man answered. I advised him of length of delay, he took my CA DRL# and informed me I was not on delay. WHAT? WHEN? He could not tell me when or why due to DOJ policy of "deleting of long gun DROS records once approved". RIGHT, DOJ purges records of approval!
Called FFL and was told electronic approval came 4/22 but approval was dated 4/15. More confusion. DOJ cut 7 days out of my 30 day pick up deadline? But then how would they know when they don't know when they approved me.
WHAT A MESS!
Approved 1 business day after lawsuit. HUM....
Good luck one and all. As DOJ rep said "this does not mean I won't have trouble DROSing again".
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  #879  
Old 04-24-2013, 1:56 PM
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111 day delay, dang. I'm on day 11. I am adhd and very impulsive. I really really really hate waiting. Congrats on the release of the gun out of jail.
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  #880  
Old 04-24-2013, 3:45 PM
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The FFL that was handling my PPT gave me another DOJ phone number today. The number was a recording stating basically "Regarding your delay, don't contact us, we'll contact you", or otherwise get a lawyer.
I will be donating where I can to fight this.
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