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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 11-26-2012, 8:35 AM
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Default POF .308s: what say you?

So im in the market for a .308 AR and I've read some really good things about POFs 308s. One thing that I read a couple years ago is that some guy was shooting moa groups at 600 yds with a 12.5" barrel. I don't know how much truth there was to that but I found it quite impressive. The primary purpose for this gun will be for hunting... like pig and deer... and I want something that's reliable and accurate in a light and small (relatively) package. I was thinking of going with their 14.5/16 inch barrel, but I don't know.

My other top choices would be a Scar 17 or just building it myself, but this would be my first .308 build and I would be going in blind (though I always have the lovely community of calguns ).

budget: not like $100000000... just not ridiculous
range: up to 800 yds
purpose: hunting (pig/ deer/ maybe coyote), plinking

TLDR: Are POF .308s generally accurate? reliable? heavy? good quality?
If not what is a better option (keep it light and small)?

Last edited by rcastaneda; 11-26-2012 at 9:52 AM..
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  #2  
Old 11-26-2012, 9:05 AM
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Default I'd say...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcastaneda View Post
budget: not like $100000000... just not ridiculous
range: well its for pig/ deer so up to like 800 yds but if i can go farther without making it heavier then thats no problem

TLDR: Are POF .308s generally accurate? reliable? heavy? good quality?
If not what is a better option (keep it light and small)?
...if I could even see a pig at 800, let alone a deer, I'd want a bolt gun with good scope.

There was a guy here a year or so ago building a gun for elephants at around 1000 yds...not sure with what he ended up but you may want to search.

Have you hunted before?

Where are you taking 800 yd. shots at pigs and deer?

Personally, I wouldn't buy a thing from Pakistani Ordnance Factory.

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Last edited by -hanko; 11-26-2012 at 9:07 AM..
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  #3  
Old 11-26-2012, 9:14 AM
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The POF 308s have good barrels (rock cut rifled) and a good piston system if that's your thing. They're very accurate. Only downside is the rail system optics sit a little high and some people don't like it and of course the price. They're also somewhat proprietary so I think they use a different bolt/bolt parts than say a DPMS or Armalite but I could be wrong. So, if you needed a new extractor you may have to call them vs. just buying it on Midway or whatever.

BTW if you're in Norcal I have a 308 AR that I'm selling. I built it, it shoots well I just want something a little different now.
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Old 11-26-2012, 9:45 AM
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hanko:
forgot to mention... I will also be using it for longer range plinking

Hoop:
I don't really mind if its piston or di.. Im just looking for reliability... Though proprietary isn't something that I would consider good... good to know though

also I'm from way down south in the oc

and any more info that anybody could offer would be helpful
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  #5  
Old 11-26-2012, 10:39 AM
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If your set on a semi, look no further than a LMT MWS with stainless barrel. Mine (chrome lined) shoots under moa if I do my part and I can hit 12x24" steel (most of the time) at 700y with an Elcan 4X. A quality scope will have you on target with ease, assuming you are already a decent shot. POF's are heavy, much heavier than a light bolt gun. LMT also makes a new lighter slick side MRP receiver for the MWS.
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2012, 11:53 AM
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POFs (Patriot Ordnance Factory) are gas piston which I think is unnecessary. The proprietary rail thing limits your options a bit. Lastly their tiff with Hoagans turns me off a bit.

I think they are goofy looking and expensive.

Also short barrel .308s are kind of obnoxious especially with a muzzle brake. I have a FAL with a Para length 18 3/8" barrel and would not go shorter, 20-21" would be better just for muzzle blast and you get more velocity in the bargain.

For practicality, 18" with a plain muzzle is about the same length as 16" with a brake or flash hider.

If you have money to spend, maybe wait for MEGA's new .308 replacement for their monolithic upper/lower set.

If you are on a budget, DPMS LR308 pattern rifles are probably the easiest .308 AR to build on a budget but they can also be built very high end like a GAP-10 or JP LR-07.

I'm building a TM-10 (DPMS style) in 6.5 Creedmoor and I think I'm getting a good balance between quality, cost and weight. I'm hoping to stay under 10 lbs with a 22" barrel and scope and total cost will be below the cost of a POF with no optics or iron sights and hopefully it will be nice and accurate.

Keep in mind that .308 ARs can get heavy real quick, if that bothers you, research a lot before buying.
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  #7  
Old 11-26-2012, 12:17 PM
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Back in my hunting days I preferred a .30-30 lever action bush gun for pig hunting. A .308 AR seems like it would be very cumbersome and unweildy in rough back country. Stainless steel polymer stock Remington for deer is all you need and if you want semi-auto use a Benelli R-1
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  #8  
Old 11-26-2012, 12:23 PM
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No interest in the Larue OBR of GAP-10?
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:24 PM
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You can get a SCAR at that price point
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2012, 12:34 PM
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I'm not sure, but if the primary purpose is really hunting, I think a .308 bolt gun is better. Lighter, reliable, etc, etc.

I once inquired about a .308 AR and it was pointed out that .308 is a great long range round, but then why would you need semi-auto? If you want long range precision, then a .308 semi was not what I was looking for. That made sense, so I stuck with an AR in .223 and got a R700 for a .308.

Just my (and someone else's 2 cents).

Having said that, post what you end up with!
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:39 PM
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Ok we have heard from the bolt gun hunting crowd....semi autos have been used to hunt for almost a hundred years...get a life
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  #12  
Old 11-26-2012, 2:35 PM
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A 308 AR as a hunting rifle would work well if set up right. As far as barrel length goes I had a brake on my 16" and it was too much, a flash hider is fine though. The problem is if you go too light then it won't be that much fun to shoot of a bench and if you go too heavy you won't want to hunt with it. So you have to find a happy medium.
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Old 11-26-2012, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcastaneda View Post
One thing that I read a couple years ago is that some guy was shooting moa groups at 600 yds with a 12.5" barrel. I don't know how much truth there was to that but I found it quite impressive.



No way that is possible, Its a piston rifle!
Must of been beginners luck.


You can't go wrong with POF.
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Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
A 308 AR as a hunting rifle would work well if set up right. The problem is if you go too light then it won't be that much fun to shoot of a bench and if you go too heavy you won't want to hunt with it. So you have to find a happy medium.
^^ weight is a good thing to consider about these things. If you go too heavy you wont like hunting with it.
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Old 11-26-2012, 2:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
Back in my hunting days I preferred a .30-30 lever action bush gun for pig hunting. A .308 AR seems like it would be very cumbersome and unweildy in rough back country. ...
That's the experience I've had actually. I recently sold my AR308 and still have a 30-30 lever gun and have run both out in the bush.

The AR308 is a monstrous beast for hunting and not in a good way where as the lever gun feels like it weighs about 2 pounds and doesn't have any protruding pieces to get hung up in the bush with.
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2012, 3:00 PM
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Those of you that hunt with ARs... how do you get around the very loud part where you load a round before firing?
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Old 11-26-2012, 3:04 PM
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Those of you that hunt with ARs... how do you get around the very loud part where you load a round before firing?
Side chargers
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Old 11-26-2012, 3:10 PM
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No ultra slow CH pull, then click click click the forward assist?

I hunt with my AR as well...

I call this my... "lazy sit on a comfortable rock and wait setup".

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Old 11-26-2012, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
Back in my hunting days I preferred a .30-30 lever action bush gun for pig hunting. A .308 AR seems like it would be very cumbersome and unweildy in rough back country. Stainless steel polymer stock Remington for deer is all you need and if you want semi-auto use a Benelli R-1
My dad has a winchester 94 in 30-30... I have an extreme amount of respect for that round and that gun, hell that gun got me guns in the first place. that said, 30-30 costs, what .50- .60 cents a round for the cheapest stuff, versus .308 where you can get it for like .20-.30 cents a round in a box of 20.

Quote:
I'm not sure, but if the primary purpose is really hunting, I think a .308 bolt gun is better. Lighter, reliable, etc, etc.
Can't disagree with any of that, but I already have a rem. 710 in 30-06, I love that gun as well, and thats, without any exaggeration, the quietest gun to load I've ever heard, but I kinda have my mind set on an AR so thats what I want. Unless you know where I can get one of those remmy MSR's, then I would make an exception.

PS: for all those recommending jp-07s and lmt's, I have nothing against those manufacturers. I just saw a picture of someone's target shooting moa groups @600yds with a 12.5" barrel and thought: "I want a gun that small that can do those groups" and yeah, thats how it went. So keep em comin' everyone, the more info I have the better!
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Old 11-26-2012, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK Dave View Post
No ultra slow CH pull, then click click click the forward assist?

I hunt with my AR as well...

I call this my... "lazy sit on a comfortable rock and wait setup".

also, thats a sweet setup, and I like this new-fangled "lazy sit on a comfortable rock and wait" style of hunting, I'll have to do some research into this, hahahahaha
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Old 11-26-2012, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK Dave View Post
No ultra slow CH pull, then click click click the forward assist?

I hunt with my AR as well...

I call this my... "lazy sit on a comfortable rock and wait setup".
That thing better be attached to a quad!
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  #21  
Old 11-26-2012, 6:32 PM
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I would say go for it. I have owned POF rifles for over 5 years now and they make damn good rifles.

The barrel is awesome and is one of the things that sets it apart from the rest.

The gas piston set up is good if you run suppressed meaning less gas in the face but this is CA so this doesn't matter at all anyways LOL.

Recoil is slightly more than a regular DI gun but its hardly noticible and with the right comp/muzzle brake you wont notice the difference.

The hand rail offers a lot of real estate options for all the tacticool gear.

You can find new POF .308 rifles on gunbroker for 2,300-2,400 new.
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Old 11-26-2012, 6:55 PM
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QC seems to be all over the place. Either flawless rifles, or problems right from the get go.
Not what I would expect at this price point.
I would go SCAR, LMT, LWRC or Larue.
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Old 11-27-2012, 8:14 AM
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So it seems to me that POFs are kind of hit and miss, some people like them some don't. If that's the consensus, then I think Ill be better off going with a different make. I've heard nothing but good things on JP's and LMT's so maybe I'll go with one of those. Thanks everybody for all the help.
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Old 11-27-2012, 9:48 AM
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Take a close look at Larue OBR and GAP-10.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:28 AM
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I have 2 POF rifles. One in 5.56 and the other in 7.62. I really like them both. Extremely reliable and very clean shooting because of the piston. I had a small problem with the P308 cycling too fast and with one email and a pic attached, Cody DeSomma personally fixed it himself. Free shipping both ways and it came back in a POF hard case free of charge. The P308 is sub moa when I do my job behind the trigger. I have yet to strech it out past 200, but really looking forward to doing so.
You will hear the arguments on every kind of weapon out there, pros and cons to each platform. My .02 is to buy one used, with a low round count, so the $$ you save iinstead of buying new, you can then get a solid optic and lots of quality ammo, then shoot the hell out of it. Also if you are looking to go long range go for the 20" barrel. You will enjoy it.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:41 AM
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Tack425, what length barrel do you have on your guns?

HK dave, Im definitely going to take a better look at those guns, they both sound like good rifles.
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Old 11-27-2012, 6:09 PM
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A 20 inch barrel would be the way to go if you want to get out to distance with the .308 round.

I wound up with a 18 inch 5.56 POF as well. And both shoot pretty darn good if I can do my part.

I can get close to MOA at 1k on the .308 with match grade ammo ususally the 175 SMK FGMM. Surplus ammo shoots like crap anything past the 500 yard mark for me. So I just shoot match grade ammo exclusively out of the .308. You pay more but the cost is worth it down range.

Check out the GAP-10 as well they are getting rave reviews on snipershide. A few of the major parts on the GAP-10 originate from POF.
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Old 11-27-2012, 6:46 PM
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I shot a LWRC REPR over the weekend and was impressed with it. Figure I would throw in another option for you.
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Old 11-27-2012, 7:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
I'm not sure, but if the primary purpose is really hunting, I think a .308 bolt gun is better. Lighter, reliable, etc, etc.

I once inquired about a .308 AR and it was pointed out that .308 is a great long range round, but then why would you need semi-auto? If you want long range precision, then a .308 semi was not what I was looking for. That made sense, so I stuck with an AR in .223 and got a R700 for a .308.

Just my (and someone else's 2 cents).

Having said that, post what you end up with!

The 308 is anything but a long range caliber. 168 hpbt's peter out at 800 yards and the drop is atrocious. If you want long range buy a 7mm - something.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:29 PM
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The 308 is anything but a long range caliber. 168 hpbt's peter out at 800 yards and the drop is atrocious. If you want long range buy a 7mm - something.
My dad has one, the recoil is atrocious. 4 rounds out of that gun and I had a bruise that lasted about 3 weeks. ahaha
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:37 PM
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I'll probably get flamed for this but what do people think about KAC m110's? that new m110c looks cool... how are they on accuracy (either one) and all that?

http://www.knightarmco.com/portfolio...features=m110c
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:37 PM
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I forgot which magazine I read recently but the article stated that a California State agency adopted the POF308 over the SCAR, Larue, and etc.

California Department of Fish and Games Law Enforcement Division was authorized to purchase a new general issue patrol rifle in January 2011. After approximately 11 months of specs being written and various endurance test being completed, POF was awarded the contract for 400 rifles. In addition to what was premiered at Shot Show each rifle will come equipped with Aimpoint Micro H Red Dot, Surefire X300, LaRue FUG, six MagPul P-mags, Viking Tactics two point sling, cleaning kit, and hard case. The POF was chosen based on endurance testing criteria set forth by the State which was a modified DOD test. 6K round fired instead of 10K rounds. The test rifle fired 6K rounds of Federal .168 TRU .308 ammunition in two days without any issues. At the end of the test the rifle was fired for accuracy and produced a 1 MOA five shot group. California Wardens will be well served by this new rifles for a minimum of thirty + years. It should be noted that 16 different rifles were originally evaluated by DFG and they decided on a .308 piston AR platform. So any manufactory who makes a .308 piston AR could bid on the contract as long as it weighed under 9 pounds. Hope this helps.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by thmpr View Post
I forgot which magazine I read recently but the article stated that a California State agency adopted the POF308 over the SCAR, Larue, and etc.

California Department of Fish and Games Law Enforcement Division was authorized to purchase a new general issue patrol rifle in January 2011. After approximately 11 months of specs being written and various endurance test being completed, POF was awarded the contract for 400 rifles. In addition to what was premiered at Shot Show each rifle will come equipped with Aimpoint Micro H Red Dot, Surefire X300, LaRue FUG, six MagPul P-mags, Viking Tactics two point sling, cleaning kit, and hard case. The POF was chosen based on endurance testing criteria set forth by the State which was a modified DOD test. 6K round fired instead of 10K rounds. The test rifle fired 6K rounds of Federal .168 TRU .308 ammunition in two days without any issues. At the end of the test the rifle was fired for accuracy and produced a 1 MOA five shot group. California Wardens will be well served by this new rifles for a minimum of thirty + years. It should be noted that 16 different rifles were originally evaluated by DFG and they decided on a .308 piston AR platform. So any manufactory who makes a .308 piston AR could bid on the contract as long as it weighed under 9 pounds. Hope this helps.
Honestly, California DFG adopting it doesn't do much for me... Cali has done some pretty stupid stuff in the past and that doesn't exactly give me an extraordinary amount of confidence in their selection process (see: California AWB, electing gov. brown twice, 95% of the PC, etc.). That's not to say that they are bad rifles, because I do not believe that, but I just wouldn't get a rifle solely based on the fact that DFG adopted it.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:29 AM
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All I saw was... "Shot 6K rounds in two days... of 308"

Can someone tell me how I can get that job?
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:33 AM
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If it was 6,000 rounds in two weeks I would sign up.

3,000 rounds of .308 in a day sounds like torture unless DFG was buying a mini gun.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
If it was 6,000 rounds in two weeks I would sign up.

3,000 rounds of .308 in a day sounds like torture unless DFG was buying a mini gun.
^ this
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:44 AM
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All i saw was "mini gun"
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:55 AM
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I like my P-308 (has a 14.5 barrel with a permantly attached MB so about 16.25"). It shoots just as well as my other rigs, but doesn't have the reach of my 18" and 20" setups.

The one thing, as someone already mentioned, is that the forend is pretty big and bulky on on of these vs. a LMT MWS, LWRC REPR or straight up DI system setup you could configure. If a bulkly handguard doesn't bother you, go for it.
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Old 11-28-2012, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
The 308 is anything but a long range caliber. 168 hpbt's peter out at 800 yards and the drop is atrocious. If you want long range buy a 7mm - something.

It's generally accepted that the 168's are a poor choice for long range shooting. Their low BC doesn't do them any favors in regards to maintaining velocity over a distance. There are however much better choices available that allow the 308 to do pretty well out to 1000+ yards. The 175 grain SMK is a significant step up in long range performance from the 168. It maintains velocity better, and also transitions into subsonic without destabilizing and spinning end over end like the 168's. Other bullets like the 190 SMK and 178 Amax are even better. You can push either of those out to 1000 yards with as short as a 16" barrel on a semi auto 308.
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Old 11-28-2012, 4:34 PM
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So it looks like the over all favorites are the GAP-10, the LMT MWS and the REPR?

I was just looking at all their websites, and the REPR seems to be a completely proprietary gun, is there any truth to that? also, I couldnt find an LMT MWS with anything other than a 16" barrel, am I just not looking hard enough or is that all it comes with?

So far, other than the POF, I like the GAP 10, and the LaRue OBR the best. They're getting some great reviews, and multiple recommendations. I dont know much about GA precision, but I know that LaRue makes noting but the highest quality parts and accessories. And their rifle looks bad*** (kinda like an SPR) bone stock (or in their picture at least).

The POF kinda seems to be hit and miss, some people love 'em, some dont. A couple things that bother me with them is the fact that they are proprietary, they do seem to be hit and miss, and there seem to be better options. So I think that I am going to do a sort of "demotion" on my list of top .308 ARs.

Just for those wondering and for my own mental orgainzation, the list as it stands right now goes like:

1. LaRue OBR 18"
2. GAP-10
3. LWRC REPR 20"
4. POF-308 16/18"
5. LMT MWS
6. KAC M110 SASS (pending legality)

So yeah, thats the breakdown... if anyone who has a POF-308 with a short barrel (16/18) would like to chime in with their observations on accuracy and reliability (especially reliability), it would be very much appreciated.
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