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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 12-08-2012, 10:47 AM
A.M. A.M. is offline
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Default Confusion regarding AR Pistol Build?

I was under the impression that you are NOT allowed to use an AR Rifle lower to build an AR pistol...

However, I was doing research and found this baby:



"A RIFLE receiver that has never been barreled or stocked as a rifle may be utilized in the manufacture of a pistol"

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2012, 10:51 AM
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Remember, federal and state law differ in some cases.
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  #3  
Old 12-08-2012, 11:35 AM
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...and this is one of those cases...California law is the reason a lower registered as a rifle can never be used as a pistol.
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  #4  
Old 12-08-2012, 2:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M. View Post
I was under the impression that you are NOT allowed to use an AR Rifle lower to build an AR pistol...

However, I was doing research and found this baby:

"A RIFLE receiver that has never been barreled or stocked as a rifle may be utilized in the manufacture of a pistol"

Thoughts?
This only applies to Federal laws.

As a CA resident, you must abide by both Federal and CA state laws.

CA prohibits what the Feds okay.
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Old 12-08-2012, 2:46 PM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
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All AR-15 receivers sold in California, stripped of otherwise, are DROSed as rifles. The only way to lawfully build your own pistol is by doing an 80% build which is what you should be doing anyways because 80% builds involve no paperwork or registration. I wouldn't want to have an AR or AK pistol registered to me on a DOJ database.
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Old 12-08-2012, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
All AR-15 receivers sold in California, stripped of otherwise, are DROSed as rifles. The only way to lawfully build your own pistol is by doing an 80% build which is what you should be doing anyways because 80% builds involve no paperwork or registration. I wouldn't want to have an AR or AK pistol registered to me on a DOJ database.
How does it work with franklin arms? They sell "pistol" ARs.

Is it legal to build a "pistol" AR with 10 round mags? I always see single shot being stated in all the pistol sales?

I also have a hard time understanding why the GOV would allow you to build a Pistol vesion which in reality is a SBR. I understand being allowed to build your own as long as you do not sell/ transfer it. I just see potential legal issues with LEOs.
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Old 12-08-2012, 4:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compshell View Post
How does it work with franklin arms? They sell "pistol" ARs.
they are a manufacturer and can manufacture AR-pistols. to comply with the roster, they manufacture single-shot AR-pistols for CA sales. the receivers they used were never DROSed as a long gun before they made a pistol from it.

Quote:
Is it legal to build a "pistol" AR with 10 round mags? I always see single shot being stated in all the pistol sales?
it is illegal to make an unsafe pistol. A 10-round AR-pistol is an unsafe pistol. it is legal to make a single-shot AR-pistol. after you own it, there is no law that says you can't modify it into a multi-shot pistol.
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2012, 5:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingle_berry View Post
...and this is one of those cases...California law is the reason a lower registered as a rifle can never be used as a pistol.
Care to enlighten me as to the exact law you are refering to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
All AR-15 receivers sold in California, stripped of otherwise, are DROSed as rifles. The only way to lawfully build your own pistol is by doing an 80% build which is what you should be doing anyways because 80% builds involve no paperwork or registration. I wouldn't want to have an AR or AK pistol registered to me on a DOJ database.
Again, care to share exactly why you think the way you do? There is ZERO proof that your claims are correct. No law or case law (that I am aware of) can be cited to support your claims.

IANAL, but, I believe that it would be 100% legal to build a Ca compliant handgun from a lower which has never been physically configured as a rifle or shotgun while in Ca. However, due to the possibility of an anti gun DA wanting to find something to charge one with, I also believe that it would be 100% stupid for anyone to build one at this time. Currently there are plenty of less risky way to aquire an AR pistol. It simply isn't worth the risk. Then again, everyone was saying the same thing about OLLs 8 years ago.
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2012, 5:30 PM
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CSACANNONEER,

Can you show me a statute that shows its ok? No, I can not state exactly what law I'm referring to, I've just heard that statement from some very reputable individuals that I choose to believe. Their arguments also make sense to me.

Based on your statements, why would you even be worried about a DA charging someone, I thought it was 100% legal??

Please enlighten me as you what exact law you're referring to??
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Old 12-08-2012, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingle_berry View Post
CSACANNONEER,

Can you show me a statute that shows its ok? No, I can not state exactly what law I'm referring to, I've just heard that statement from some very reputable individuals that I choose to believe. Their arguments also make sense to me.

Based on your statements, why would you even be worried about a DA charging someone, I thought it was 100% legal??

Please enlighten me as you what exact law you're referring to??
No one can show you a statute that it is ok because laws only tell you what is against the law, not what is allowed. I too have heard what you are referring to. Whether it is grounded in written law or not, I do not know. Legal and smart are two different issues. 8 years ago, 80% builds were legal, but not smart. Today, that has changed.
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Old 12-08-2012, 5:45 PM
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That's a very fair comment, my apologies for poor wording. I should have asked for a legal argument that it is ok to do as he's suggesting.
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Old 12-08-2012, 5:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingle_berry View Post
That's a very fair comment, my apologies for poor wording. I should have asked for a legal argument that it is ok to do as he's suggesting.
My arguement is simple and the same one used to bring us OLLs 8 years ago. If it is not illegal, it is legal. There is no law nor case law to indicate that this is illegal. If you can show me one, I'll be the first to admit that I'm mistaken.

Why should no one do this at this time? It simply isn't worth the risk of false prosecution. Right now, "we" have bigger and more important legal fights to contend with than to clarify this in a legal setting.
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  #13  
Old 12-08-2012, 6:58 PM
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Point understood. I guess I'm being conservative in my approach.
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Old 12-08-2012, 7:10 PM
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I'm being consevative by stating that it should not be done at this point in time.
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  #15  
Old 12-08-2012, 7:24 PM
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I don't have access to a drill press, etc. so, you know... 80% builds are tough lol.
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Old 12-08-2012, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M. View Post
I don't have access to a drill press, etc. so, you know... 80% builds are tough lol.
you can buy a used one ftf with bb and 10rd mag

or as I did
I bought a used one off gb, guy in other state put in a bb and 0 rd sled and mailed it to my ffl
I dros'd it as a SS, then took out 0 sled installed 10rd

+ I put it on my CCW, "SUNDEVIL", lol
most evil of all CCW pistols

also built 80s on my drill press and mill
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  #17  
Old 12-09-2012, 8:25 AM
Harrison_Bergeron Harrison_Bergeron is offline
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I was under the impression that a pistol from a new non-rifle lower was illegal in CA because all new bare lowers in CA are DROSed as long guns, unlike in other states where bare lowers are DROSed as an 'Other' or a 'bare receiver' something without distinction as a pistol or long gun.

Last edited by Harrison_Bergeron; 12-09-2012 at 11:29 AM..
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  #18  
Old 12-09-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
All AR-15 receivers sold in California, stripped of otherwise, are DROSed as rifles. The only way to lawfully build your own pistol is by doing an 80% build which is what you should be doing anyways because 80% builds involve no paperwork or registration. I wouldn't want to have an AR or AK pistol registered to me on a DOJ database.
This is NOT true. I bought the lower of my choice and had it put together and registered as a PISTOL, not a rifle. You do NOT have to start with an %80 lower. You DO have to have a complete upper to register your pistol LOWER! Basically, it needs to be a complete pistol when you do the DROS.
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  #19  
Old 12-09-2012, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrison_Bergeron View Post
I was under the impression that a pistol from a new non-rifle lower was illegal in CA because all lowers in CA are DROSed as long guns, unlike in other states where bare lowers are DROSed as an 'Other' or a 'bare receiver' something without distinction as a pistol or long gun.
No one know if Ca's DROS means anything as far as a virgin receiver goes. No other state has a DROS sytem so, receivers are not DROSed as anything in any state except for CA. When it comes to "other", you are thinking about how a 4473 is filled out. These are filled out the same way in all 50 states. So, even in CA, the 4473 says "other".
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  #20  
Old 12-10-2012, 6:01 AM
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Also, keep in mind that the ATF 4473 forms before 08-2008 did not have the "other" option.
They just had "handgun", "long gun" and "both".
So, in order make sure you use a receiver that was marked "other" on the 4473, do not attempt this with a receiver that was acquired before 2009 (the revision came out in 08-2008, but FFLs were allowed to use the older forms up until 12-2008).
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