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  #1  
Old 12-06-2012, 11:26 AM
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SonorousAria SonorousAria is offline
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Default FFL ppt question

So, I am interested in becoming an FFL and opening up an out of my home business. (I know there are a lot of obsticles to overcome first) My question is this: I currently own off roster pistols. Can I still PPT Rhem after becoming an FFL? Can I still buy them PPT?

Thanks

Kevin
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2012, 11:32 AM
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Send a message to Placertactical here. He may be able to answer your questions.
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2012, 10:09 AM
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You could certainly sell any of your guns PPT via your own FFL, but I would be careful about buying them PPT if you plan on reselling them immediately. Although technically it may be legal, you are circumventing the system and this could be frowned upon by DOJ.

I have bought guns from customers for myself via PPT, but only with the intention of keeping them for myself.

Frankly, the real pickle here has probably more to do with sales tax than the DOJ. if you sell your personal gun via PPT with your FFL, should tax be collected? Probably....
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2012, 10:15 AM
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Thank you. I would never use it as a means to buy and sell off roster guns, in fact, I would probably use another FFL to do it just to stay above suspicion. I just wanted to make sure the FFL didn't limit my rights as a private gun owner.

Thanks,

Kevin
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2012, 10:35 AM
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It actually enhances your rights. 01 FFL's are the only class of people in CA that can walk into a shop and buy a gun for PERSONAL use and walk out after DROS with no waiting period. Even cops have to have a letter....

We are also exempt of a couple things like handguns needing to be in a locked container, as long as they are "securely wrapped".
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2012, 11:20 AM
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A FFL is pretty easy to get. The FEDs can not turn you done unless you are a restricted person. But, that doesn't mean they will issue you FFL either. By that I mean, some counties restrict homes sales and so do some cities like. So the ATF will not issue a FFL to areas that are restricted and this has coused some applicants to complain about the ATF turning them down when they were actually saving you the application expense. I would call the AFT and make sure you live in a area where it is allowed and then talk to the city.

Beaware that a FFL has more restrictions in some cases then non FFLs. Like we can take a firearm out of inventory (DROS'd for hand guns) but if we do we can not sell that gun for a year. You are subject to inspections ( ATF, DOJ and even local) without notice and ANY paperwork discrepency can get your license pulled. If you want to do this as extra income then save your time and money on all the FLL, State and local licensing and just find a FFL with good prices that you can work with.

As a FFL you still can't buy off roster guns and DROS them in your name so a FFL doesn't help you with that although you can take one and use it as your own but it is still considered inventory. PPTs are not taxed if it is the FFLs personal firearm but again, you have to keep the gun for a year before you can PPT it anyone.
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Last edited by mscales5; 12-07-2012 at 11:26 AM..
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  #7  
Old 12-07-2012, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonorousAria View Post
So, I am interested in becoming an FFL and opening up an out of my home business. (I know there are a lot of obsticles to overcome first) My question is this: I currently own off roster pistols. Can I still PPT Rhem after becoming an FFL? Can I still buy them PPT?
The first thing to check is to see if you can get a local business license. That is typically the main issue.

You can still sell your personal firearms and you can still buy them, but there can be additional issues. If you were buying a firearm for inventory, you need to be a secondhand dealer, but if you were trying to buy a used firearm from a private party for your business AND did it as a PPT, then you could have some issues.

Depending on how you are licensed can make a difference in what you have to do. For a Sole Proprietor if you transfer a firearm to your own personal collection and do not fill out the 4473, then if you decide to sell it, you have to run it through your business if it is within a year. Also, there is a requirement to log the sale of your personal firearms.

Please see:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/...=0#quicktabs-7

Quote:
Originally Posted by mscales5 View Post
I would call the AFT and make sure you live in a area where it is allowed and then talk to the city.
The ATF is not going to know about the City, it is best to directly contact the City and ask (and hope that they actually know as one place I lived the City had people contact me to tell them how to do everything).

Quote:
Beaware that a FFL has more restrictions in some cases then non FFLs. Like we can take a firearm out of inventory (DROS'd for hand guns) but if we do we can not sell that gun for a year.
That is not correct. The firearm can be sold within a year, but it has to go through your business. While it does not really matter in CA since most firearm transfers have to go through a FFL, it is meant for other states where otherwise a FFL could buy some firearms, transfer them to their personal collection and then sell them on the street corner legally.
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  #8  
Old 12-07-2012, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
The first thing to check is to see if you can get a local business license. That is typically the main issue.

You can still sell your personal firearms and you can still buy them, but there can be additional issues. If you were buying a firearm for inventory, you need to be a secondhand dealer, but if you were trying to buy a used firearm from a private party for your business AND did it as a PPT, then you could have some issues.

Depending on how you are licensed can make a difference in what you have to do. For a Sole Proprietor if you transfer a firearm to your own personal collection and do not fill out the 4473, then if you decide to sell it, you have to run it through your business if it is within a year. Also, there is a requirement to log the sale of your personal firearms.

Please see:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/...=0#quicktabs-7



The ATF is not going to know about the City, it is best to directly contact the City and ask (and hope that they actually know as one place I lived the City had people contact me to tell them how to do everything).



That is not correct. The firearm can be sold within a year, but it has to go through your business. While it does not really matter in CA since most firearm transfers have to go through a FFL, it is meant for other states where otherwise a FFL could buy some firearms, transfer them to their personal collection and then sell them on the street corner legally.
It is correct, a FFL must keep a firearm taken out of inventory for 1 year before he can sell it again as a PPT.

ATF does know what county or citie do or don't allow home based FFLs. I this is true from having 2 BATFE agents in the family. Now not all individual agents know this but the licensing division sure does.
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  #9  
Old 12-07-2012, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mscales5 View Post
It is correct, a FFL must keep a firearm taken out of inventory for 1 year before he can sell it again as a PPT.
No, it is not. The only requirement is that it has to be run through the business, which means that FFL can process it as a PPT, but it can not be brought to another FFL. There is nothing in the law which says that the firearm can not be sold. Also, the PPT concept is a CA issue, not a Federal one.

Quote:
ATF does know what county or citie do or don't allow home based FFLs. I this is true from having 2 BATFE agents in the family. Now not all individual agents know this but the licensing division sure does.
The ATF knows to some degree, but the simple fact is that they don't keep up with recent changes. The information that they have might be in the past, not the present. Also, a person at the ATF is not supposed to give out information regarding areas in which they are not responsible, such as CA laws or local issues.
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2012, 6:22 PM
Southpaw Southpaw is offline
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This thread brings up a question I have had but not been able to find the answer. If a dealer brings in a handgun from his personal inventory that he has had for over a year. Logs it in and it does not sell so dealer wants to take it back into his personal inventory and can not dros it back to himself because it falls off the roster like a Bersa .380. Is there anyway the dealer can get his handgun back?
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  #11  
Old 12-09-2012, 11:46 AM
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It would be done just like a consignment and the DROS would be a return to owner.
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