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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 11-29-2012, 1:09 PM
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Default PSA has BCGs in stock.......$129

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.../category/332/

But they arent PSA brand. Looks ok, just ordeted one.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2012, 1:42 PM
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Not the MPI version, that being said, let's see how long before they are sold out again
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2012, 1:46 PM
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How big a deal is mpi?
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  #4  
Old 11-29-2012, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
How big a deal is mpi?
A big deal! You will have a failure within 200 rounds.
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2012, 3:41 PM
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Not really, but I think it's worth the insurance for about $20 more. For a range/bench gun I wouldn't fret I guess
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2012, 3:43 PM
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My m&p sports bcg isnt mpi......i think ill be ok. I should have jumped on those core15s when they were in stock
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  #7  
Old 11-29-2012, 3:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ParanoidCivilian View Post
A big deal! You will have a failure within 200 rounds.
LOL, WTF. I hope you're not being serious.
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  #8  
Old 11-29-2012, 4:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ParanoidCivilian View Post
A big deal! You will have a failure within 200 rounds.
hahahahahahahahaha
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  #9  
Old 11-29-2012, 4:15 PM
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So with all that said who else is buying 1
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  #10  
Old 11-29-2012, 6:30 PM
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Seems like most bolts are made from 8620 steel. So im guessing its G2G
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  #11  
Old 11-29-2012, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ParanoidCivilian View Post
A big deal! You will have a failure within 200 rounds.

did u read that on the internet? stop spreading FUD
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  #12  
Old 11-29-2012, 6:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParanoidCivilian View Post
A big deal! You will have a failure within 200 rounds.
um, yea... I have a stag bolt carrier group that 5,000+ rounds on it, works fine. Its 6 years old.
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  #13  
Old 11-29-2012, 7:03 PM
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Amazing how sarcasam escapes some people.

Sent from my Incredible 2
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  #14  
Old 11-29-2012, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by zfields View Post
Amazing how sarcasam escapes some people.

Sent from my Incredible 2
i think he was serious
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  #15  
Old 11-29-2012, 7:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bender152 View Post
LOL, WTF. I hope you're not being serious.
He's wrong its actually 20 rounds...
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  #16  
Old 11-29-2012, 7:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfields View Post
Amazing how sarcasam escapes some people.

Sent from my Incredible 2
I got it.
BTW non MPI bolts are for training only.
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  #17  
Old 11-29-2012, 7:52 PM
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Wow sold out already. Didnt last 12 hours
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  #18  
Old 11-29-2012, 7:54 PM
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Earlier this year those were an $80 addition to an upper...
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  #19  
Old 11-29-2012, 7:56 PM
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I got it.
BTW non MPI bolts are for training only.
Good to know. Ill have to separate it from my other BCG for when I go on missions and sortees.
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  #20  
Old 11-29-2012, 9:55 PM
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Might as well get the Core15 BCG. same price.
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  #21  
Old 11-29-2012, 10:00 PM
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Was out of stock
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2012, 7:05 AM
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non MPI will blow up and possibly kill anyone within 25 ft of it.
They were conceived by the anti 2A democrats to create negative media coverage.
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2012, 12:13 PM
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Why? For 20 bucks more you can have a R-Guns Nickel Boron coated complete BCG from Aim Surplus.
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  #24  
Old 11-30-2012, 12:30 PM
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MPI for my Competition guns and my rifles that I bring with me overseas... If it isn't MPI it is a range toy... I'm not one of the types, but on guns where I have either my life or a purse of money on the line, I prefer to know it has as much QC as possible. It is the reason I love BCM BCG... affordable, and built by guys who know and understand that some of us trust our lives in that piece of gear working 100% of the time.

That being said, for a range toy, paper puncher, or bench gun, with proper maintenance and lube, you shouldn't have any issues.
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2012, 12:30 PM
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MPI for my Competition guns and my rifles that I bring with me overseas... If it isn't MPI it is a range toy... I'm not one of the types, but on guns where I have either my life or a purse of money on the line, I prefer to know it has as much QC as possible. It is the reason I love BCM BCG... affordable, and built by guys who know and understand that some of us trust our lives in that piece of gear working 100% of the time.

That being said, for a range toy, paper puncher, or bench gun, with proper maintenance and lube, you shouldn't have any issues.
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2012, 1:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
Why? For 20 bucks more you can have a R-Guns Nickel Boron coated complete BCG from Aim Surplus.
actually it's a bit over $30 more (add shipping - PSA is free ship right now)... still a good price though for NiB
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2012, 1:32 PM
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No offense but since my AR has a BB, its never going to be my defense gun.

That right belongs to my AK or muni14.
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  #28  
Old 11-30-2012, 1:43 PM
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actually it's a bit over $30 more (add shipping - PSA is free ship right now)... still a good price though for NiB
True, but uncoated standard affairs should really be around the $100 mark. MPI is not necessary for recreational use. Civilian rifles will never see the kind of action a combat rifle sees.
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Old 11-30-2012, 1:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
How big a deal is mpi?
An extra form of quality control. Like carrier staking, it's something that people needlessly geek out over without really knowing the details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
MPI is not necessary for recreational use
On a rifle bolt it doesn't do much more than a good visual inspection.

Last edited by Hoop; 11-30-2012 at 1:56 PM..
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  #30  
Old 12-01-2012, 3:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
An extra form of quality control. Like carrier staking, it's something that people needlessly geek out over without really knowing the details.

On a rifle bolt it doesn't do much more than a good visual inspection.
This.

The usefulness of MPI is dubious at best and that's with HP testing. Without HPT, MPI is pretty much meaningless.
In the AR15 community its a case of people "NEEDING IT" without really knowing why or if it even makes a difference. Then touting endlessly on the internet how much more superior product X is than product Y because of reason Z that they don't really understand, they just know its "betterer". This is also the case of the whole nickle boron coated bolts/bcg's.

That said most of the higher quality bolts are HPT and MPI tested. That's not to say a bolt is "low quality" if it doesn't have MPI and its possible to get a low quality bolt that has been through "MPI". Far more important are the materials used and dimensions. MPI is not a guarantee that one BCG will last longer or function more reliably than a non MPI BCG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
Why? For 20 bucks more you can have a R-Guns Nickel Boron coated complete BCG from Aim Surplus.
This is a case of it being "better" because it has "more" with no real knowledge of if or why beyond the marketing material on NiB people have read. No one knows who makes or what the R-Guns Bolt carrier groups are made of (or many of the other now-prominent NiB BCG brands). IT is often the case that NiB BCG's are out of spec causing malfunctions, there is cases of the supposedly "indestructible" NiB coating wearing and flaking off with normal use. NiB doesn't take lubrication as well as phosphate and still is prone to carbon fouling. This tied in with the out of spec nature of some of these bolts and you can end up with a malfunction prone rifle after just a bit of carbon buildup if not right out of the gate.

What real tangible benefit are you really getting for that extra $20+ you're spending on the "ooohhh shiney" BGC over any other budget phosphate BCG. In the case of the 8620 PSA bolt at least you know what its made out of. 8620 is a high strength tool steel, if not "mil-spec". Hopefully we all know how dubious the "mil-spec" designation is anyway.

I'm not advocating either of these bolts, they both could be garbage, or they both could be fantastic. At the end of the day they are both questionably branded BCG's, one has a wizz-bang shiney finish and the other at least you know the steel it's made of. You shouldn't expect fantastic things from either, especially based on how pretty it looks or some unproven marketing snake oil like NiB coating.

Last edited by DirtyLaundry; 12-01-2012 at 3:38 AM..
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  #31  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyLaundry View Post
This is a case of it being "better" because it has "more" with no real knowledge of if or why beyond the marketing material on NiB people have read. No one knows who makes or what the R-Guns Bolt carrier groups are made of (or many of the other now-prominent NiB BCG brands). IT is often the case that NiB BCG's are out of spec causing malfunctions, there is cases of the supposedly "indestructible" NiB coating wearing and flaking off with normal use. NiB doesn't take lubrication as well as phosphate and still is prone to carbon fouling. This tied in with the out of spec nature of some of these bolts and you can end up with a malfunction prone rifle after just a bit of carbon buildup if not right out of the gate.

What real tangible benefit are you really getting for that extra $20+ you're spending on the "ooohhh shiney" BGC over any other budget phosphate BCG. In the case of the 8620 PSA bolt at least you know what its made out of. 8620 is a high strength tool steel, if not "mil-spec". Hopefully we all know how dubious the "mil-spec" designation is anyway.

I'm not advocating either of these bolts, they both could be garbage, or they both could be fantastic. At the end of the day they are both questionably branded BCG's, one has a wizz-bang shiney finish and the other at least you know the steel it's made of. You shouldn't expect fantastic things from either, especially based on how pretty it looks or some unproven marketing snake oil like NiB coating.

And what makes you so knowledgable about this particular NiB BCG? Do you own one or even tried one??

I own and use one. It functions perfectly and is much easier to clean. That is the sole reason I got it. Could give a rat's *** if it's shiney or not. The fact you mention that shows you really don't know about the benefit of NiB.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
And what makes you so knowledgable about this particular NiB BCG? Do you own one or even tried one??
I have and had problems with the finish coming off. Ended up returning it for a regular phosphate one. From what I understand that was an earlier problem and it's since been fixed.
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  #33  
Old 12-01-2012, 11:35 AM
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Get the non-MPI as a 'spare' part you always have in your carry bag and use it ONLY as a spare (like the single purpose spare tire is to a car.)
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  #34  
Old 12-01-2012, 11:39 AM
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Get the non-MPI as a 'spare' part you always have in your carry bag and use it ONLY as a spare (like the single purpose spare tire is to a car.)
That's what I said.

I will not use the non-MPI BCG when I got on missions and sortees.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
And what makes you so knowledgable about this particular NiB BCG? Do you own one or even tried one??

I own and use one. It functions perfectly and is much easier to clean. That is the sole reason I got it. Could give a rat's *** if it's shiney or not. The fact you mention that shows you really don't know about the benefit of NiB.
And what makes you so knowledgable about this particular NiB BCG? Do you own one or even tried one??

If you actually read what I said you'll see that I said it could actually be a fantastic BCG. But you shouldn't simply buy it because of the NiB snake oil or that it is somehow better than the phosphated 8260 bolt linked on the PSA site simply because of the NiB coating. It has been discussed at length that the NiB coating can change the tolerances of the bolt leading to malfunctions. Additionally they do not take lubrication well and the NiB has been known to do the very thing its advertised not to (flake, wear through, etc.) on "quality" "name brand" NiB BCG's. Additionally, none of the manufacturers of these NiB coated bolts actually says what type of steel they are made of and trump up the 'miracle' coating above all else when the coating is the last thing someone should be worried about with a bolt.

I'm glad you've had success with your NiB BCG but it is a reach to say that you would have had less success with an equally priced or even a cheaper phosphated BCG. Fancy advertising about "high lubricity" "self lubricating" coatings is all find but real world they provide no measured or objective advantage over a quality phosphated BCG. They may actually provide a disadvantage if they are not made of quality materials.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
That's what I said.

I will not use the non-MPI BCG when I got on missions and sortees.
Exactly, for those life or death shots when you're out hunting terrorists at burro canyon or on BLM land, you HAVE to use your HPT, MPI, NiB miracle coated bolts or there is a 50% chance the rifle simply will not function.

Why do you need these things? Who knows! You NEED them and you simply must pay more for them or your rifle will not function.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:51 PM
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They do this all the time. Probably will run it again for Christmas.

MPI version is $145. I had one, sold it to another member. I'm sure he's happy with it.

I have a BCM of my AR; couldn't be happier..
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Old 12-01-2012, 1:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyLaundry View Post
And what makes you so knowledgable about this particular NiB BCG? Do you own one or even tried one??

If you actually read what I said you'll see that I said it could actually be a fantastic BCG. But you shouldn't simply buy it because of the NiB snake oil or that it is somehow better than the phosphated 8260 bolt linked on the PSA site simply because of the NiB coating. It has been discussed at length that the NiB coating can change the tolerances of the bolt leading to malfunctions. Additionally they do not take lubrication well and the NiB has been known to do the very thing its advertised not to (flake, wear through, etc.) on "quality" "name brand" NiB BCG's. Additionally, none of the manufacturers of these NiB coated bolts actually says what type of steel they are made of and trump up the 'miracle' coating above all else when the coating is the last thing someone should be worried about with a bolt.

I'm glad you've had success with your NiB BCG but it is a reach to say that you would have had less success with an equally priced or even a cheaper phosphated BCG. Fancy advertising about "high lubricity" "self lubricating" coatings is all find but real world they provide no measured or objective advantage over a quality phosphated BCG. They may actually provide a disadvantage if they are not made of quality materials.
And you incorrectly assumed that it was bought because of "snake oil" qualities. Which is NOT the case here. Until you understand the primary benefit of having a NiB BCG from first hand experience, what you are pontificating is nothing more than opinion.
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  #39  
Old 12-01-2012, 2:01 PM
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And you incorrectly assumed that it was bought because of "snake oil" qualities. Which is NOT the case here. Until you understand the primary benefit of having a NiB BCG from first hand experience, what you are pontificating is nothing more than opinion.
what does pondifi

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Old 12-01-2012, 2:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
And you incorrectly assumed that it was bought because of "snake oil" qualities. Which is NOT the case here. Until you understand the primary benefit of having a NiB BCG from first hand experience, what you are pontificating is nothing more than opinion.
What qualities does a NiB coated bolt have beyond the snake oil qualities? "Easier to clean", "indestructible" and "self lubricating/high lubricity" is about the only thing they supposedly have going for them. And these benefits are dubious if at all existent or completely false.Not to mention the many negative aspects the coating imparts and the questionable material, peening, heat treat, etc. of these BCG's.

So tell me what exactly are these "not snake oil" features you bought and are getting out of your shiny NiB BCG above and beyond what you would get from a similarly priced or cheaper budget phosphate coated BCG?

Anderson arms had a BCG special for $95 and those bolts too had questionable specs, quality control, and material sourcing like the R-guns BCG. What does the R-Guns BCG offer for $50+ more?

Last edited by DirtyLaundry; 12-01-2012 at 2:12 PM..
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