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  #1  
Old 11-20-2012, 3:08 PM
Aufdrahtsein Aufdrahtsein is offline
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Default HK USP Blues.

So, I have about 800rds through my HK USP fullsized (9mm) and I'm seeing the same issue: Jamming. Usually the round will fire, the brass will attempt to extract from the chamber and will get trapped between the the unspent round and the slide. This is my first pistol, and I'm sure sure what I'm missing as far as adequate break in time. Before I shoot it, there's always factory made round going through it, with the adequate amount of lube. Since I've owned it, this has happened roughly 20-times, on three different magazines. Questions/Comments/Suggestions?
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Old 11-20-2012, 3:11 PM
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How tightly are you holding the gun? The recoil spring on the USP is pretty light so it can be prone to limpwristing. Try out a tighter grip, this will help the slide reciprocate its full travel, allowing the sprent brass to extract, eject and return to battery.
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Old 11-20-2012, 3:15 PM
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Limp wristing would be my first guess as well.
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Old 11-20-2012, 3:20 PM
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Have someone else try it. If they get the same result, that might rule out limp wristing (unless he is also limp wristing)

Is there a lot gunk under the extractor?

Last edited by creampuff; 11-20-2012 at 3:24 PM..
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Old 11-20-2012, 3:40 PM
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Yeah. I would let someone else try it to remove operator error from your equation. how do you grip it?


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  #6  
Old 11-20-2012, 3:45 PM
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What kind of ammo? I know with the P2000 they say 124gr NATO rounds are what it was designed for, and anything weaker can cause issues.
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Old 11-20-2012, 3:55 PM
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Same situation happened to me with a full size H&K USP40, it was going to be my go to gun, not sure if the magazines were worn or the gun. Switched to Glock and no more problems.
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Old 11-20-2012, 5:19 PM
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Try hot ammo like s&b.
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  #9  
Old 11-20-2012, 6:23 PM
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Using 115gr Federal Ball, and I'm a pretty small guy with small wrists; I wouldn't put limpwristing out of the question; I'd hate to see this piece go ( as it's my first one ) in replacement of a pistol that's better suited for me.
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Old 11-20-2012, 6:24 PM
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Oh, and I didn't note any build up of gunk on/in/around the extractor; I keep it fairly clean.
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Old 11-20-2012, 6:26 PM
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I've got more than 30,000 rounds through my USP40, and haven't had any problems. Limp wristing will cause cycling issues with most any gun, especially if it's your first and you're unfamiliar with maintaining a good combat grip.



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Old 11-20-2012, 6:30 PM
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I have had mine for years. I never experienced a hiccup with it. Fed it reloads & factory loads. Although mine has an after-market wolfe recoil spring.
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Old 11-20-2012, 6:42 PM
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I've got 2 p2000's a P30, a HK45 and a HK45c.....they all run 100% over thousands of rounds excluding one ftf with ****ty frangible eco friendly ammo in my p2000 .40. If it really is the gun, I'm sure HK will make it right. They really do put out a stellar product.
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Old 11-20-2012, 6:42 PM
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I have a several USP's. I have countless rounds through them of all types without an issue. I keep trying to talk myself into another brand, S&W, Glock, etc... and then I think WHY!? I LOVE my USP's and will likely add another soon.
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Old 11-20-2012, 7:25 PM
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If limpwristing is an issue ( not saying that adequate practice should negate these issues ), would replacing it with an after market recoil spring be an easy fix, or should I stay with HK's proprietary recoil spring system? I guess I'm trying to convince myself to keep this instead of exploring other makes and models. My dad has an HK USPc in .40, and I can shoot that thing all day without incident, but there's well over 3k rds through it. Should I invest into a hotter load to see if that makes any difference? The next time I go out shooting I'll have my friends run a few hundred rounds through the gun to hopefully rule out operator error.
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Old 11-20-2012, 8:02 PM
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The fact that you have the issue with different magazines, and different ammunition makes me think it's possibly an extractor issue but its a bit hard to tell from your description of the jam.

Try this test next time and see what happens. After loading a round in the chamber remove the magazine and fire the pistol. Try it five times in a row and see if the empty cartridge ejects properly each time.

Although this is a test for a 1911 to see if you have proper extractor tension, its a pretty universal test of your extractor. An extractor with insufficient tension will either fail to extract or allow the case to drop down off the breach face and fall out the mag well during extraction. This would cause a jam if the loaded magazine was in the pistol. Dirty or lead fouled chambers can cause extraction issues also as can burrs on the extractor, dirty extractors or a poorly fit extractor.
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Last edited by redcliff; 11-25-2012 at 3:31 AM..
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:05 PM
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Make sure you clean behind the extractor, as carbon loves to build up there. I own three USPs and have never had an issue with them.
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  #18  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune View Post
I've got more than 30,000 rounds through my USP40, and haven't had any problems. Limp wristing will cause cycling issues with most any gun, especially if it's your first and you're unfamiliar with maintaining a good combat grip.



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Ooook. Glad I caught this thread. So let me get this straight: anything short of a "combat grip" may cause cycling issues? I ask this because I've never handled a pistol before and I pick up my Beretta in 3 days.

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Last edited by myk; 11-20-2012 at 11:04 PM..
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  #19  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:32 PM
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OP, are you the original owner of the gun? What is the date code (two letters on the left side of the slide). Would not guess the factory recoil spring assembly is the problem. those should be good for 10k+ rounds. They will also shoot gummedup/dirty. What kind of ammo are you using? Last, if you did buy the gun new, how about a call to HK CS and see what they think? May be a faulty extractor, but I've never heard of one in aUSP (maybe you won the lottery, though).
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Old 11-21-2012, 2:03 AM
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You don't need to consider ditching the gun because you think you are limp wristing. It doesn't matter how big you are; you can fix limp wristing with proper technique. There are small women who can shoot without limp wristing, and absent some injury there's no reason you shouldn't be able to either.

Now I don't know if that's really your problem, but if it is, be glad that it's not the gun but you instead and something that you can fix for free. =)
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Old 11-21-2012, 8:48 AM
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[post deleted by user]

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  #22  
Old 11-21-2012, 11:46 AM
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I'll give you a more thorough run down with pictures once I get back into town. Spent the last week in Arizona getting jealous about how many people I saw conceal carrying there ( some were less concealed than others ); don't even get me started on the gun store that I visited...makes me wanna cry.

Ammunition: Federal Ball 115gr. ( will invest into heavier grained ammunition )
Grip/Stance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

Been trying to practice the above grip/stance the last 200rds/several times shooting, it takes some getting used to.
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  #23  
Old 11-21-2012, 1:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aufdrahtsein View Post
So, I have about 800rds through my HK USP fullsized (9mm) and I'm seeing the same issue: Jamming. Usually the round will fire, the brass will attempt to extract from the chamber and will get trapped between the the unspent round and the slide...Since I've owned it, this has happened roughly 20-times, on three different magazines.
Does it happen anything like this?






Quote:
If limpwristing is an issue ( not saying that adequate practice should negate these issues ), would replacing it with an after market recoil spring be an easy fix, or should I stay with HK's proprietary recoil spring system?...I guess I'm trying to convince myself to keep this instead of exploring other makes and models.
HP's "Recoil Reduction System" is about as good as it gets, so I doubt that would help at all. The problem is - most likely - with your form/technique, not the hardware. Changing pistols may mask the underlying problem for a while, but will not solve it
Quote:
Should I invest into a hotter load to see if that makes any difference?
If your technique can't handle the recoil on a lighter load, it ain't gonna get any better with a more violent recoil.
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The next time I go out shooting I'll have my friends run a few hundred rounds through the gun to hopefully rule out operator error.
That's a start. But, are you absolutely sure your friends have proper form/technique? If not, you are trading out one variable for another, and getting no closer to a definite conclusion.

Why not ask a Range Officer/instructor to watch you shoot and try the gun? You have a much better chance of getting directly to a solution with that than friends who may, or may not, know as much as they think.

Since this is your first pistol, why not take some instruction and get a firm base of proper technique to build upon? I know that might be a bit of an insult to one's pride, but it will save you a lot of frustration and ammo/cost in the long run.

BTW, the USP is one of my favorite polymer pistols to shoot. It does a lot right.

Last edited by DrMoebius; 11-21-2012 at 1:53 PM..
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  #24  
Old 11-21-2012, 3:12 PM
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Limp wristing.

I had 1 fte on my usp 9 when brand new, and never since.
Haven't had any ftf or fte's on my usp .45

Easy fix.
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Old 11-24-2012, 9:11 AM
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To update some information, I am indeed the original owner of the pistol; according to the indicator on the slide, the first two letters before the serial number sequence are "BA". The second shot of the pistol in the second video was more like the failure that I experienced, which makes me think that I am in fact limp wristing it. If I can get an extra pair of hands to take the photo, I'll display my shooting stance and grip.
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Old 11-24-2012, 9:39 AM
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On a side note, I'd like to go down to Ironsights in Oceanside sometime in the next two or three days; if anyone is interested in coming along and giving me pointers, that'd be grand.
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Old 11-24-2012, 9:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKMadness View Post
Limp wristing.

I had 1 fte on my usp 9 when brand new, and never since.
Haven't had any ftf or fte's on my usp .45

Easy fix.
This! My first pistol was a HK USP. My first round through I had one FTE. Fixed my grip.....never failed after that.
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Old 11-24-2012, 1:47 PM
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If you find that limp wristing is the problem then it is easily fixed. If not, it's entirely possible that after 800 rounds, your extractor could probably use a good cleaning. I suggest that you remove the slide and drive out the extractor retaining pin (bottom to top) and clean the extractor and recesses. External extractors can get packed with oily dirt, causing reduced extractor tension and FTE problems.
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Old 11-24-2012, 4:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myk View Post
Ooook. Glad I caught this thread. So let me get this straight: anything short of a "combat grip" may cause cycling issues? I ask this because I've never handled a pistol before and I pick up my Beretta in 3 days.

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When I first bought my USP40, I was largely unfamiliar with combat automatics, having cut my teeth on Smith & Wesson Model 19s and Model 28s. The combat grip on a full frame Smith is a lot different than a combat grip on a combat auto.

I was schooled in one handed shooting and Weaver stance. Typical FBI and California Highway Patrol stance shooting were the name of the game. When I got my USP in late 1993, I held under the grip, being unfamiliar with autos for the most part. This caused a lot of slop and allowed the gun to float in my hand, which caused two issues.

The first issue was that it caused wonky cycling as the recoil was being lost in the grip and wrist, instead of allowing the gun to cycle reliably. I got a little training and that issue ended. After almost two decades of heavy auto use, I've never had cycling issues using a sound combat grip.

The second issue was due to the ambi-mag release below the trigger guard. The original 1st series USP pistols had a rather large mag release that had the tendency to engage when shooting with an inadequate or sloppy grip, resulting in a dropped mag. Having large hands didn't help the situation either. I sent the pistol back to Sterling Virginia, and they sent it back with the newer reduced size mag release, the same one that currently resides on all USP models. Between the improved grip training and smaller mag release, problems solved.

This particular USP40 is in the low 4000 serial number range and has been through a 6 month LEO academy, countless combat shooting courses, and used as a serious workhorse. It's never been babied, primped and polished, or spoiled. It's been through the dirt and mud in holsters, tossed on hoods and the ground during search and seizure exercises, and used as an example when conducting combat drills. It's a solidly reliable shooter and acted as a daily carry piece for a long time. I've loaned it out to friends from 3 different LEO departments as a temporary personal carry piece over the years.

It's just a solid platform that keeps on trucking. I carry 1911 pistols all the time these days, but I'd sell them all before selling that high mileage USP40, it's just that solid of a performer. It's not my favorite gun by far, or even close to being my most accurate piece, but it's reliable performance makes it a keeper worth holding on to. It's a tool that just keeps working great.





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Last edited by Neptune; 11-24-2012 at 4:44 PM..
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Old 11-24-2012, 6:56 PM
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I know everyone is saying "limpwristing!" but I'm skeptical. I've seen the same person limp wrist a Glock round after round (new shooter) but had no issue with my USP. I don't think the gun is prone to that.

I know it's an HK but you may have just gotten a lemon. I would look for burrs in the chamber, chipped extractor, etc. And then contact HK to get it looked over. It should be nothing but flawless.
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Old 11-24-2012, 7:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhyla View Post
I know everyone is saying "limpwristing!" but I'm skeptical. I've seen the same person limp wrist a Glock round after round (new shooter) but had no issue with my USP. I don't think the gun is prone to that.

I know it's an HK but you may have just gotten a lemon. I would look for burrs in the chamber, chipped extractor, etc. And then contact HK to get it looked over. It should be nothing but flawless.
I'm with this guy. I've had probably 4-5k rounds through my USP9. It's the most reliable pistol I own. I can't imagine that limp wristing would be a problem. I've shot this pistol weak handed, contact shot it in training, shot it upside down in training weak handed. The thing just works with any ammo I feed it.

I would tear it down and remove the extractor to make sure it isn't chipped. If that doesn't fix cycling issues, have someone else shoot it and check to make sure it isn't you grip (I'd be really surprised if it was) - then send it to HK.
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Old 11-24-2012, 7:14 PM
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you must have a lemon. send it back to HK.

ive never even heard of a USP malfunction before this thread.
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Old 11-24-2012, 9:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aufdrahtsein View Post
On a side note, I'd like to go down to Ironsights in Oceanside sometime in the next two or three days; if anyone is interested in coming along and giving me pointers, that'd be grand.
I'm in the Bay Area until Tuesday night. I can meet you at Iron Sights after that if you want. I've had a USP45 for 13 years, so I might know something about them. Shoot me a pm.
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Old 11-25-2012, 1:58 PM
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That sounds like a plan Hoss, I'm going to be doing my 72hr shift here soon, but we'll coordinate something in December if you're available? I don't suspect it's a gun malfunction, because there doesn't seem to be any visible wear on any of the components that are in charge for extracting the round; I'm willing to put my money on limpwristing at this point in time, but I hope that can change with adequate range time.
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Old 11-26-2012, 7:55 AM
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i got my USP 9 full size about a month ago. i started shooting 124gr before switching to 115gr. i had no problems using federal
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Old 11-26-2012, 8:36 AM
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My 12 year old daughter shoots my USP's (9mmc, 40c, and 45f) just fine with no issues. She has been instructed on and practices proper techniques, including using only one hand when necessary. These guns are not picky about ammo.

I'd have the range officer fire several magazines through the weapon to see if the issue can be duplicated. If so, HK's customer support has been great the last few years. Call them and they will make it right.

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Old 11-26-2012, 2:53 PM
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I'm on the limp wristing bandwagon.

The only time my USP .45 jams like that is when I'm trying to be all tactical and shoot on the move or do multi-taps. Those are the only times I limp wrist my USP, and the only times it jams.
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Old 11-26-2012, 3:04 PM
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I had a similar problem with my USP. It was happening with more than one magazine so I started to suspect a problem with the gun. I changed the magazine springs in all my mags and that solved the problem.

You can get the springs on hkparts.net. I would try that out to rule out the mags. Good idea to change the mag springs periodically anyway.
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