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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-18-2012, 5:02 PM
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Default Big 5 in Lakewood Spreading Misinformation

First thread!

I went to the Lakewood Big 5 today to buy some knives and ended up impulse buying an M48 Mauser. All was good until the manager told me that California law states that all guns must be locked in your house.

I told him that was not correct and there is no such law in California, to which he replies "Have you talked to the DOJ or ATF, because I have, and that is what they told me." I told him that I follow what the law says, not what someone tells me and that he should do the same before spreading misinformation to customers.

He had a smug attitude, one that screamed know it all, and refused to listen to reason. He said that LEOs can confiscate your guns from your home if they are unlocked. I asked if he can state a specific penal code pertaining to his claim. He could not and kept resorting to his claim that the ATF says so.

I wasn't sure whether to cancel my purchase, keep arguing with him, or what. The M48 was in pretty good condition so I went forward with the purchase and figured it wasn't the rifle's fault that the management at Big 5 spreads misinformation, but it will probably be my last purchase at this location.

My question is, what do you guys do when an FFL spreads BS about firearm laws? Should I print this out: Link and bring it to him? The closest section I can find that relates to his claim is on page 48 "Safe Handling and Storage of Firearms" - Children’s Firearm Accident Prevention Act of 1991, which does not make it illegal to have unlocked firearms when a minor is present. This law is only punishable when a "child improperly uses it." Am I interpreting this correctly?

Last edited by matt85; 11-18-2012 at 5:05 PM..
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Old 11-18-2012, 5:04 PM
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That's why I tend to stay away from big 5
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Old 11-18-2012, 5:09 PM
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If someone honestly doesn't know and will listen I will attempt to aid them and educate them with whatever tools and literature I can.

If they are a smug know it all, I give them 1 chance and if they blow it, their words become meaningless to me and I give no aid nor do I attempt to correct them.
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Old 11-18-2012, 5:17 PM
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All i can say is this: When i buy a firearm from someone i am not going there expecting them to be a firearms law expert. They can tell me what ever they want. I don't have to listen to it, get upset about it or angry about it. I go there to buy a gun and that's it. I think its great that Big 5 even sells guns in this state. You can't expect everyone to know every thing. YES even the guy at the gun counter at "BIG 5 SPORTING GOODS".

If they had experts working there, the guns wouldn't be so cheap as experts would demand more pay for their services. When you go to Big 5, smile, nod, and buy your gun of choice. JMHO
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Old 11-18-2012, 5:23 PM
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If the price was right, I can ignore the fine folks who work at the Big 5 type chains.

Like most Airline Ricket agents, they are not trained by their employers on firearm laws.

They probably are given training on Federal Forms and the basics to keep Big 5 out of legal trouble in all US states

This forum is a great resource to help knowledgable gun owners learn more and understand the 22,000+ firearm laws on the books.

I would be more concerned on the headspacing on a vintage rifle purchased for under $200 from Big 5 than on the "laws" as explained by the employees.

Many of the Big 5 rifles are packed in 50 year old cosmoline. They might or might not be safe to fire out the door.

With the 50 year old cosmoline in the chamber, it is clear that no one has recently verified that they are in safe and working order.

Enjoy your new firearm and politely nod at the idiots life presents.....

Or fine a shop that specializes in the classics and give them your business

Last edited by hermosabeach; 11-18-2012 at 5:26 PM..
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Old 11-18-2012, 5:38 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. It irked me that a place that sells firearms would have such ignorant people working there, but it is Big 5 and I shouldn't expect them to employ experts. I'll avoid the legal talk with smug *******s in the future haha. This is my first Mauser and I'm pretty excited about it. Can't wait to get it home (after Big 5's 11 day waiting period policy!) and get the cosmoline off it and give it a good cleaning. Hermosabeach, I'll be sure to check the head space before firing it. I always do when buying a milsurp rifle. Thanks again.
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Old 11-18-2012, 5:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
All i can say is this: When i buy a firearm from someone i am not going there expecting them to be a firearms law expert. They can tell me what ever they want. I don't have to listen to it, get upset about it or angry about it. I go there to buy a gun and that's it. I think its great that Big 5 even sells guns in this state. You can't expect everyone to know every thing. YES even the guy at the gun counter at "BIG 5 SPORTING GOODS".

If they had experts working there, the guns wouldn't be so cheap as experts would demand more pay for their services. When you go to Big 5, smile, nod, and buy your gun of choice. JMHO
I agree 100%. If I restricted my transactions to only those that were 100% with their knowledge of the law, I would do much biz..
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2012, 5:42 PM
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Smile and nod and buy your gun.
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Old 11-18-2012, 5:57 PM
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After I met some police officers claiming my 10rd XD mags are "illegal hi-cap", I am no longer shocked by misinformation.
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Old 11-18-2012, 6:04 PM
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I try and give them correct information, if they don't want it then it is their problem. Arguing with morons is a lesson in futility.
OP you definitely did the right thing by saving that mauser from that moron.
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Old 11-18-2012, 6:08 PM
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Big 5 managers are turds. I got in a little debate with one over how many guns you can sell/buy. He was telling me to sell firearms you need an FFL, and if you do PPT you can only do a few rifles a month, and with that your asking for trouble. Man I wish I could show him the private firearms section on this forum! Let alone how many damn rifles I've sold in the past year alone!
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Old 11-18-2012, 6:08 PM
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Oh yeah, these are also the same people who claim repro mosin snipers as originals too.
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Old 11-18-2012, 6:13 PM
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Lucky for you he came out of the Shoe Department to help ..



Oh..and WELCOME to CAL GUNS..!!!
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2012, 6:30 PM
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I almost purchased the Umarex Hk-Walther Mp5-22 from them yesterday.
Decided to look around other Big 5 stores because the only one they had was gouged on the fake suppressor.

Honestly when those guys talk about bs , I just ignore them and buy my stuff.
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Old 11-18-2012, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
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Smile and nod and buy your gun.
We need a "Like" button in here! Good comment!
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Old 11-18-2012, 7:41 PM
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Probably the best you can do is to prefer FFLs where the level of misinformation is lower.

You did with that manager all that you could; no point in talking to a wall.

At some point I'd like to see some kind of certification organization that trains FFLs and their staff, and features the "good guys" prominently in advertising and neat little stickers on the entry doors.


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Old 11-18-2012, 7:43 PM
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Quote:
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Smile and nod and buy your gun.
That is exactly what I do.
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Old 11-18-2012, 7:48 PM
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I was buying stuff ten yrs ago at big 5 in Daley City, there was a young African American gal be hind the counter & I mistakenly assumed she had no clue about firearms or the law...

She set me straight real quick, not everyone at big 5 or Wally world will be clueless - oh btw wally world in Reno are selling AR15's and so are big 5's .... awesome, eh?
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Old 11-18-2012, 7:57 PM
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What a mis informed moron
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Old 11-18-2012, 7:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt562 View Post
That's why I tend to stay away from big 5
Bain & Davis in SGV told me that I was not allowed to have ammo in a magazine, and the magazine in the same locked container with the handgun (not in the gun). I told them thanks for the advice, but I'm pretty confident with my knowledge of Ca gun laws.

Doesn't matter where you go...
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The more I am on CalGuns the more I see why government keeps certain people from owning firearms.
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Old 11-18-2012, 8:14 PM
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The guy was obviously wrong but there is nothing unusual about someone else not knowing what you know. This site is great at making us super geniuses in the gun world. Sometimes I feel like us gun people turn into this guy:



Clearly you must know that the laws state....

I know I at least resemble him
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Old 11-18-2012, 8:15 PM
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Bain & Davis in SGV told me that I was not allowed to have ammo in a magazine, and the magazine in the same locked container with the handgun (not in the gun). I told them thanks for the advice, but I'm pretty confident with my knowledge of Ca gun laws.

Doesn't matter where you go...
I was talking about that specific big 5.
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Old 11-18-2012, 8:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bill_k_lopez View Post
Bain & Davis in SGV told me that I was not allowed to have ammo in a magazine, and the magazine in the same locked container with the handgun (not in the gun). I told them thanks for the advice, but I'm pretty confident with my knowledge of Ca gun laws.

Doesn't matter where you go...
^^^ Very well said. I am not in position to lecture them and even if I did so, the oxymorons aren't going to listen. I just purchase what I need and leave. I don't need to make an intelligent conversation with them. I am confident with my knowledge too. Thanks to CG and some meaningful people here.
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Old 11-18-2012, 8:27 PM
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I was talking about that specific big 5.
So you're saying that Cerritos and the Traffic Circle stores are better? I work 2 blocks from the El Segundo HQ store - and it isn't any better there.

I won't buy a gun from Big5 - Ammo Brothers and Turner's have always been more than willing to match or beat any sale price I've found at Big5. Not that I'd want to take advice from those stores either.
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Old 11-18-2012, 8:27 PM
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I guess you're not married. If you were, you'd be equipped to handle a situation like that. Here's a hint: never, ever, ever try to be right if you want to get what you're looking for.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:05 PM
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I help my local Big 5 with simple gun questions... They actually ask me basic stuff... Funny stuff.
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Old 11-19-2012, 4:03 AM
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did he just volunteer up that tidbit of misinformation all on his own, or, was there some convesation which lead up to him offering his 'expertise?'

i generally walk in, tell them which firearm im interested in buying, let them do their thing, and im done...that goes for any LGS

if i have any questions about MY firearms, or their purchase, i'll do my own research before I step foot in the store
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Old 11-19-2012, 9:14 AM
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We cannot expect a dealer to know all the laws. They don't. We don't know all the laws. Not even the DOJ and ATF know all their own laws. (Police, prosecutors, defenders, and judges don't know the laws. They will tell you their version of it, which is usually how they want the law interpreted).

Like TeddyBallgame has just said: "I'll do my own research before I set foot in the store." Good advice.
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Old 11-19-2012, 9:23 AM
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Lucky for you he came out of the Shoe Department to help ..



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Old 11-19-2012, 9:29 AM
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I would really give him a piece of my mind, after I picked my gun up, and listen attentively and smile like the dummy he is until then.

Did he let you file the safe affadavit?

It used to be that Century (CAI) from which Big 5 gets all its guns, headspaced everything. They may still. I have never fired a new surplus rifle without using a glove with my head under the table, just for sure.
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Old 11-19-2012, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyBallgame View Post
did he just volunteer up that tidbit of misinformation all on his own, or, was there some convesation which lead up to him offering his 'expertise?'

i generally walk in, tell them which firearm im interested in buying, let them do their thing, and im done...that goes for any LGS

if i have any questions about MY firearms, or their purchase, i'll do my own research before I step foot in the store
He volunteered his comments. As I was filling out the DROS paperwork, he asked if I had a safe because I would have to sign the safe affidavit form along with buying a gun lock when I come back to pick up the rifle, and that it must be locked when I bring it home.

Last edited by matt85; 11-19-2012 at 9:34 AM..
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Old 11-19-2012, 9:54 AM
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Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
I would really give him a piece of my mind, after I picked my gun up, and listen attentively and smile like the dummy he is until then.

Did he let you file the safe affadavit?

It used to be that Century (CAI) from which Big 5 gets all its guns, headspaced everything. They may still. I have never fired a new surplus rifle without using a glove with my head under the table, just for sure.
He told me that I would need to fill out the safe affidavit and buy a gun lock when I pick up the rifle. Which is also incorrect.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:13 AM
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Welcome to Calguns. I agree with those saying you can't expect much from Big-5, you know what to expect going to a store like this. I bought two 870's last year during a Black Friday sale at a local Big-5. While chit-chatting with the sales guy he asked me what I was going to be using them for, and I mentioned that I'd be using the 12g and my g/f would be using the 20g, to which he replied that they had to refuse the sale of the 20g as a straw purchase. I argued with him for awhile telling him that they would both be mine, in my possession and in my safe, that I just wanted something she could use, but he said they couldn't sell it. I was trying to buy them both on the same DROS, and I asked if I could just DROS them separately, or come in the next day or something to buy the 20g. He told me that since I had made the comment that she would be using the 20g that they could never sell one to me, basically I was banned for life from buying that specific gun from that store. Ridiculous. I also saw this same guy at another time and I told him it was nice that Big-5 was selling BB AR's, he told me they only just started carrying them because their had been no demand for them before...

I will say that when calling their customer service line they were very helpful and seemed pretty knowledgable. They told the store to allow the sale.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:24 AM
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If it's not affecting my purchase, I ignore their errors. Seems they'll never admit your know more than they do, so it's just a waste of my time.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt85 View Post
He volunteered his comments. As I was filling out the DROS paperwork, he asked if I had a safe because I would have to sign the safe affidavit form along with buying a gun lock when I come back to pick up the rifle, and that it must be locked when I bring it home.
Geez.

For rifles, it's one or the other, not both. And no, it need not be locked for transport, unless you are going through a school zone. In the trunk of your car will cover that.

See the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu...es.2C_and_Laws
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
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Last edited by Librarian; 11-19-2012 at 11:10 AM..
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
All i can say is this: When i buy a firearm from someone i am not going there expecting them to be a firearms law expert. They can tell me what ever they want. I don't have to listen to it, get upset about it or angry about it. I go there to buy a gun and that's it. I think its great that Big 5 even sells guns in this state. You can't expect everyone to know every thing. YES even the guy at the gun counter at "BIG 5 SPORTING GOODS".

If they had experts working there, the guns wouldn't be so cheap as experts would demand more pay for their services. When you go to Big 5, smile, nod, and buy your gun of choice. JMHO
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Old 11-19-2012, 8:46 PM
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fairfaxjim fairfaxjim is offline
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CA gun law ignorance and mis-information (I prefer to save FUD for intentional lying) is rampant among FFL's and their employees. The truth of the matter is all you really need from them is someone who can execute the transaction paperwork and computer input sufficiently to complete your purchase. I don't care what the hell they say or talk about while they do that, I haven't met anyone working at Big 5 that I care to engage in a meaningful conversation.

Now, if they are botching up the transaction so that I get screwed (I don't care how screwed up their paperwork ends up - not my problem), then we have a problem. The lock/safe thing is so mis-understood and I have seen nearly every possible way of screwing it up. I've been sold a lock for 1 cent for a 10-22 & yes I have a safe because "that's the way we do all of them" (Not Big 5, a very well known and respected range/FFL/gun store in the Bay Area)

As for Big 5, I have actually had good luck getting transactions completed and even had them receive a replacement rifle from Sig without charging me any FFL fee. A phone call to their customer service seems to get things on track pretty quickly. Just my experience, YMMV.
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Old 11-19-2012, 9:03 PM
geeknow geeknow is offline
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Meh, why you wasted time trying to convince him, and are still worrying about it, are both beyond me.

Like Ron White says, "you can be right, or you can be happy".

At the end of the day, does the fact that this employee has a different view really matter to you?

Now, before you get all Hough and mighty, and start quoting PC, hear me out...

Is it possible that he really did speak with DOJ? Yes, it is.

Is it really possible that the same DOJ gave him their opinion, rather than quote PC? Yes, it is.

Given all of the retail items that he needs to manage, do you really think they make enough $ on milsurp guns to spend all day combing cgn, DOJ websites, etc, mining them for pertinent PC that is relative to only about 2% of gross sales? Highly doubt it.

I highly recommend that you spend some time, pull together the relevant info and pc. Once collected, go and give it to him, in the spirit of cooperation, that you pave the way for those who follow you.

Or, just complain about it here.

Your choice.
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  #39  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:37 PM
matt85 matt85 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeknow View Post
Meh, why you wasted time trying to convince him, and are still worrying about it, are both beyond me.

Like Ron White says, "you can be right, or you can be happy".

At the end of the day, does the fact that this employee has a different view really matter to you?

Now, before you get all Hough and mighty, and start quoting PC, hear me out...

Is it possible that he really did speak with DOJ? Yes, it is.

Is it really possible that the same DOJ gave him their opinion, rather than quote PC? Yes, it is.

Given all of the retail items that he needs to manage, do you really think they make enough $ on milsurp guns to spend all day combing cgn, DOJ websites, etc, mining them for pertinent PC that is relative to only about 2% of gross sales? Highly doubt it.

I highly recommend that you spend some time, pull together the relevant info and pc. Once collected, go and give it to him, in the spirit of cooperation, that you pave the way for those who follow you.

Or, just complain about it here.

Your choice.
Who's still worrying about it? And I don't think it's too much to ask for for a firearms dealer to know very basic firearm laws. Especially if they are going to tell you with a cocky attitude what the law is. I don't care if the guy normally sells shoes and jump ropes, **** him for his attempt at spreading his ignorance.
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  #40  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:37 AM
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steve91104 steve91104 is online now
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show us that mauser!

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