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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 11-17-2012, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobG View Post
If Kalifornia is forced to issue, the bigger problem that never gets discussed is how counties like LA will handle the influx of applicants. LA county has approx 10 million people. Imagine if 2% of them apply; it will be years before they can get to everyone. Sacramento is much, much smaller and their back log is nearly a year.
I don't understand why it takes so long and expensive in CA, while in some states with far more applicant take no more than 6 weeks.

guess they intentionally making it hard to discourage people from applying.
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  #42  
Old 11-18-2012, 6:32 AM
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When a friend's wife was threatened by a kook, the local sheriff told the wife
to carry a gun and made sure the permit happened right away.
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  #43  
Old 11-18-2012, 7:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomashoward View Post
Concealed means concealed.
My wife doesn't know when I carry. I don't want you to know either.
I carry every day (like mentioned its like grabbing your wallet...becomes a habit).

I'm in the same boat. My wife doesn't want to know. When she comes at me for a hug, I always dart for her hips so she has to throw her arms around my neck (I carry my HK45c, Crossbreed, 4 o' clock). One time she came up to me from behind and she threw her arms around me.....yah....she found out then. She doesn't care...but for a silly reason she just doesn't want to know. If we are somewhere in Cali she isn't familiar with (or a scary part of...well...anywhere), she does ask me "are you carrying now?"

You perfect the art of carrying after a while. When your wife who notices a piece of lint on your clothing or tiny smudge of dirt, can't tell if you are carrying...... Trust me.....no one will.

I'm a prepper in the sense that I like to be ready for anything that may happen to me and my family (I can't ever predict when something bad will happen). Before I got into firearms, I focused on keeping my hand-to-hand skills up to date (martial arts). After getting into firearms, I made as many range trips as possible since guns were just another form of combat arts. Now that I have my LTC/CCW, my training incorporates that and I love doing holster draw drills and shooting/moving drills outdoors. It's a good thing to feel ready. It is even makes you feel better when your children express they feel protected when daddy's around.
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  #44  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Meplat1 View Post
It pisses off the sheriff. Some jurisdictions will pull your permit for it. I think it has more to do with waisted time on MWG calls than any thing else.
My iPhone (carried almost every day) prints dramatically more than my P220 would IWB, but no one has ever called the cops on me.
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  #45  
Old 11-18-2012, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
I don't understand why it takes so long and expensive in CA, while in some states with far more applicant take no more than 6 weeks.

guess they intentionally making it hard to discourage people from applying.
Correct. It was instituted in the 1910s or 1920s (forget which) to make sure that only "the right people" carried. (No Chinese, Japanese, or Mexicans, for one thing.)

In other states, the permit system was designed to make sure that anyone could carry a pistol if they wanted to and were not prohibited.
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  #46  
Old 11-18-2012, 2:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreaded Claymore View Post
Correct. It was instituted in the 1910s or 1920s (forget which) to make sure that only "the right people" carried. (No Chinese, Japanese, or Mexicans, for one thing.)

In other states, the permit system was designed to make sure that anyone could carry a pistol if they wanted to and were not prohibited.
I believe it was either 1926 or 28, there was a new article at time about it.
I think union workers were also restricted to discourage them from resist mine owners.
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  #47  
Old 11-18-2012, 3:26 PM
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Originally Posted by M. D. Van Norman View Post
My iPhone (carried almost every day) prints dramatically more than my P220 would IWB, but no one has ever called the cops on me.
I have had LEO friends tell me that itís not printing through clothes they usually notice, but that a lot of guys canít keep their hand off it. They are always adjusting and patting and such.
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  #48  
Old 11-18-2012, 5:08 PM
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Originally Posted by socalbowhunter View Post




Oh, you were serious.
And you're new around here. There are only 12+ carry cases in the Federal Courts of appeal and we've only struck down Maryland's "may issue" statute and forced Sac County shall issue in the process.

How much will you donate to a pro-gun organization of your choice when you eat crow?

-Gene
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  #49  
Old 11-18-2012, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
I believe it was either 1926 or 28, there was a new article at time about it.
I think union workers were also restricted to discourage them from resist mine owners.
1924 for the most recent iteration - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Ti...1924_and_later - the current version has been substantially the same for 88 years.
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  #50  
Old 11-19-2012, 9:42 AM
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The point is that the sidearm is for the unexpected threat.

Itís the same thing with seat belts. I always wear one when driving, but if I were expecting to crash, I would just stay home instead.
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  #51  
Old 11-19-2012, 9:49 AM
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It is the stakes, not the odds (likelyhood to non-gamblers)

Carry is actually fun when you get your kit figured out. I do feel undergunned on some days, but don't forget that it is there, and that the bad guy does not.

"Say hello to what you thought was my wallet..........................."
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  #52  
Old 11-19-2012, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
"Say hello to what you thought was my wallet..........................."
When you carry at the right position this is just so natural.

"Well, here is my wallet but it's got a bit of lead in it..."

-Gene
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  #53  
Old 11-21-2012, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
In the 43 states that are basically shall issue there are about 16 million LTCs....

-Gene
Citation/source?

I ask because as of 2011 Dec 31, only about 8 million Americans had a LTC.
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  #54  
Old 11-21-2012, 11:09 PM
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If you got thru the 45+ examples of LTCs saving lives linked in my sig line, you 'll see that in not one case did the LTCer know ahead of time that they'd need to carry that day. In other words, they did not have "Good Cause" to carry according to CA law as interpreted by almost all urban CA sheriffs.
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Supporting CGF at the expense of supporting NRA is wildly stupid. . . .

Never, ever, ever choose not to be an NRA member.

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  #55  
Old 11-21-2012, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Citation/source?

I ask because as of 2011 Dec 31, only about 8 million Americans had a LTC.
Footnote there is
Quote:
3 This number is an estimate based upon state reporting to GAO. Given that many states reported approximate numbers and some states that issue permits were unable to provide the number of permits, the number is likely understated.
The reason is probably here:
Quote:
Of the 48 states that issue concealed carry permits (2 states do not issue permitsóIllinois and Vermont), 20 states have centralized issuing authorities that process all applications and issue all permits for their state. Another 23 states have decentralized issuing authorities that process applications and issue permits at the jurisdictional level. The remaining 5 states use a combination of centralized and decentralized issuing authorities. These states generally utilize decentralized authorities for residents and a centralized authority for nonresidents (see app. III for a list of statesí issuing authorities).
Nice doc; hadn't seen it before.

Don't know where the 16 million comes from, though. The 'good' numbers seem to come from Texas, Florida and Michigan; those are pretty easy to find on state web sites.
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  #56  
Old 11-22-2012, 2:42 AM
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Santa Clara county sucks. I wish I could CCW. Wonder if I'll get to in my life time.
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  #57  
Old 11-22-2012, 5:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
I'll treat your post as if it were meant seriously, even though you clearly marked it as sarcasm.
.
Back at you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
I think you'll find few people that will disagree with that statement. Simply obtaining a CCW-able gun, and putting it in one's IWB holster or man purse does not give the ability to defend oneself. That requires training and practice, significant amounts of it. The typical 16-hour CCW training class is way too little to be able to effectively use a gun..
You cannot train competence into someone. I refuse to go into detail regarding this topic, but a state-mandated training course exists only to comfort the blissninnys. In South Dakota we don't have a mandated training course , and that's the proper way to go. A moron who's negligent with a firearm will be so no matter how much official guidance they receive. Look at the scores of Police and Military members who experience Negligent Discharges despite completing not just firearm training but also legal education on top of it.

State mandated training is a waste of everyone's time. Unless the user wants to learn -and fortunately most do-the exercise will not prevent reckless behavior. Better that we not pretend it will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
No, that doesn't necessarily follow. For example, one could be a resident of a very safe are who spends 90% of the time in a place where carrying is completely pointless and a waste of effort, but have to go to a less secure area the remaining 10%, and arm oneself only for those 10%.


I'm actually a reasonably good example of that. I carry about two or three times a month, typically for several hours up to the whole day...
Furthermore, statistics are an unreliable predictor on your personal odds of an adverse incident . Stats indicate that the typical police officer will never have to do more than draw on a perp-yet there are officers who've had multiple line of duty shootings in their careers. As such, since crime is by nature unpredictable its wise to be armed at all times.

On that subject ,I realize for certain folks this is not legally possible. I used to live and work on a military base which was a gun free zone to end all gun free zones. Military police at the gates, random searches of automobiles parked at the base without notice or warning, and all firearms had to be registered and stored unloaded.

For certain people due to their livelihoods and job situations, concealed carry is all but out of the question-if you work in a government building or private business which bans guns by employees ( read nearly every single large corporate business) there's little point in having a CCW permit, since the places you spend your time at are non-permissive environments .



Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post


In many areas, that statement is extremely close to true. If you look at the rates of violent crime in Orinda, Los Altos Hills and Saratoga, you will find that it will with very high probability "never happen to them" (a friend of ours by the way claims that Monte Sereno is even safer than neighboring areas, I haven't bothered to look up the statistics)...
Again, crime cannot be predicted by statistics. If it could concealed carry would be unnecessary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
Actually, that sounds extremely sensible. Carrying a gun is an investment of time, effort, and money. Furthermore, it does carry some risk, for example of the gun being lost (maybe through carelessness, maybe in a scuffle), or of a negligent discharge.
.
Everything people do carries risk. In my estimation, considering we lose 48000 people to automobile accidents yearly we should perhaps consider regulating car purchases the same way we deal with firearms. After all, we stand a greater chance of dying on the drive to work than we do from a gunfight at the office.

I wonder how much safer America really would be if everyone had to wait 10 days and submit to a background check before picking up the keys to their Mercedes Benz.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
Cases of CCW weapons being lost by the carrier, falling into the wrong hands, or being used against their owner are reported with some regularity. In a situation where the benefit of CCW is very small (namely in a low-crime area), the real-world cost and risk of carrying may very well outweigh the perceived benefits of it.

As we see, you meant your post as sarcasm, but I think it can very well be taken in earnest.
CCW is less about the physical item and more about its potential benefit. An auto insurance policy is a pain in the rear to maintain and pay for, but it comes in handy when Joe Dip**** hits your car. I pay for full coverage on my car, because when you need insurance you NEED it badly.

So it is for carry. There are stories all around of people who lived to be 60, 70+ years old and never needed a gun until one day some goblin picked them out. One 90 year old guy got into a gunfight in his home!

You don't need a gun for 99% of your daily life and activities, but I speak from experience when I say that when the 1% happens to you that firearm becomes your best friend on Planet Earth.
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  #58  
Old 11-22-2012, 9:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jimsu View Post
I just moved down from Wa and my zip code had 17%. I would suspect that 33
To 50% carried all of the time when their employer didn't stop them.
I am from Covington and I saw people carry daily in the summer months.
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  #59  
Old 11-28-2012, 7:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Don't know where the 16 million comes from, though. The 'good' numbers seem to come from Texas, Florida and Michigan; those are pretty easy to find on state web sites.
Apologies. 16 Million is the target which is a double from the current 8 million per GAO. That's based on nearly 50% of the population being in non shall-issue states (NY, MA, CA, etc.)

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  #60  
Old 11-28-2012, 8:52 PM
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I carry everyday. Even family's house on thanksgiving. I had 8 months to figure our cloths and holster during my BG check so it's very easy to carry. My wife doesn't mind as her interview is in about a month from now. Going to be interesting if we get pulled over with both kids in car seats both packing.
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  #61  
Old 11-28-2012, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
Of the people with permits how many actually carry most days? I have to imagine it gets pretty bothersome after while.
Like wearing a seat belt -- different at first and then naked without it. I wonder about states like AZ and VT where you do not need a permit, are they 4% max armed too I wonder?
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  #62  
Old 11-28-2012, 9:47 PM
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Like wearing a seat belt -- different at first and then naked without it. I wonder about states like AZ and VT where you do not need a permit, are they 4% max armed too I wonder?
I search for my holster when I'm in NYC/Chicago/Boston as if it's an amputated appendage...

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  #63  
Old 11-29-2012, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
Of the people with permits how many actually carry most days? I have to imagine it gets pretty bothersome after while.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
No, it became a habit after awhile, just like carrying your car keys or wallet every morning.

Currently, CA has less than 0.1% population with permit, so even 1% is a significant improvement.
True.

I carry every single day and I don't even realize putting my gun on. It's just a habit to put on my pants, holster and then gun - even if I'm just doing housework.
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  #64  
Old 11-29-2012, 11:39 AM
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DUPE
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