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  #1  
Old 11-15-2012, 2:34 PM
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Default Off list pistols

I'm likely going to attend my last gun show this weekend before returning to CA, so I plan to buy a pistol I will no longer be able to buy after I move back. So, I was wondering what off-list pistols the members of Calguns would buy if they could. Having lived in VA since 2010 and going to some gun shows here, I have become a bit numbed to all the handguns laying on the tables at the shows, caring more about the cost of a gun than anything else, and I could use some CA reality jolt. There was a discussion about the Caracal pistol, and I saw one at a gun show this month, but for $450, I just didn't want to spend the money on it. Of course, after returning to CA, my opinions might change.
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2012, 2:38 PM
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HK45/HK45c
HK P30's

are always sought after here in CA.
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2012, 2:43 PM
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Chiappa rhino, pretty much any gun off list would be good
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  #4  
Old 11-15-2012, 2:43 PM
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Only thing I can comment on is to not buy it hoping to sell it for a higher price. With the availability of SSE, off-list pistols don't go for nearly what they used to. Of course, goes to say, we wouldn't even think of purchasing an off-list pistol to make money off if it anyways, right?
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2012, 2:46 PM
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Don't buy a gun, buy an STI frame and sell it to me
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2012, 3:07 PM
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I picked up a P30 and next gun I want is a PPQ. Seems like all the guns I want are off roster =\
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  #7  
Old 11-15-2012, 3:26 PM
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Buy what you want. Don't worry about the list.
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  #8  
Old 11-15-2012, 3:29 PM
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Buy guns that are not easily converted for SSE.

Personally, I'd buy:

- a couple of the 'recent' police trade-in H&K P7s

- a Walther P5

- offlist Ruger 22LR autos.

- pistol frames
- I'd buy a bunch of Caspian 1911 frames.
- Some AR pistol lowers, 'cause they are cheap.
- SIG P210

- alloy frame SIG P230

- I'd probably also go shopping for a clean 9mm Colt Commander, just because.

Give me some time, I could probably double that list.

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  #9  
Old 11-15-2012, 3:39 PM
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With the SSE option in CA, you can obtain almost any semi-auto that is off list, but it will add to the cost of the handgun. Most stores charge the MSRP price of the gun and there might be a SSE fee on top of DROS fee.

Before coming back to CA, try to get a few nice 1911s and check out the Walther PPQ.
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  #10  
Old 11-15-2012, 4:06 PM
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My wish list:
Sig p226 or p229 Combat. Any Sig Scorpion (p226,p220,p229).
Kimber Desert Warrior.
Any 4th gen Glock.
Any XDm.
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  #11  
Old 11-15-2012, 6:07 PM
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this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
Buy guns that are not easily converted for SSE.

Personally, I'd buy:

- a couple of the 'recent' police trade-in H&K P7s

- a Walther P5

- offlist Ruger 22LR autos.

- pistol frames
- I'd buy a bunch of Caspian 1911 frames.
- Some AR pistol lowers, 'cause they are cheap.
- SIG P210

- alloy frame SIG P230

- I'd probably also go shopping for a clean 9mm Colt Commander, just because.

Give me some time, I could probably double that list.

-- Michael
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  #12  
Old 11-15-2012, 6:51 PM
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AFAIK, you are considered an importer when you move here with guns and anything off-list is prohibited from being imported. To bring them in, you'd probably have to deal with a CA FFL who can do the single-shot exempt conversion (like EBR in Thousand Oaks)... transfer to them, then transfer back to yourself.
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  #13  
Old 11-15-2012, 7:06 PM
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buy a bunch of Walther PPQ in .9mm, you will have no problem sell them. I'll buy one or two.
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2012, 7:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
AFAIK, you are considered an importer when you move here with guns
correct, you are considered a personal handgun importer.
Quote:
and anything off-list is prohibited from being imported.
incorrect, a personal handgun importer can import off-roster handguns when they move to CA.

Quote:
To bring them in, you'd probably have to deal with a CA FFL who can do the single-shot exempt conversion (like EBR in Thousand Oaks)... transfer to them, then transfer back to yourself.
nope, no need to do that.
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2012, 7:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
AFAIK, you are considered an importer when you move here with guns and anything off-list is prohibited from being imported. To bring them in, you'd probably have to deal with a CA FFL who can do the single-shot exempt conversion (like EBR in Thousand Oaks)... transfer to them, then transfer back to yourself.
Lets tone down the FUD


(Jack was faster)
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Last edited by Oceanbob; 11-15-2012 at 7:14 PM.. Reason: Jack beat me to it
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  #16  
Old 11-15-2012, 7:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbob View Post
Lets tone down the FUD


(Jack was faster)

Okay, then how do you explain this from the CA DOJ roster page?

Quote:
Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.
I would love to hear that you are correct because I have a couple that didn't move back to CA with me.
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2012, 7:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
Okay, then how do you explain this from the CA DOJ roster page?



I would love to hear that you are correct because I have a couple that didn't move back to CA with me.
you are not importing for sale. and when you read the PC in its entirety, you'll see that the roster restrictions are placed on when the FFL transfers the handgun to the recipient. personal handgun importations do not process through an FFL.
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  #18  
Old 11-15-2012, 7:29 PM
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I guess the part that is tripping me up is "kept for sale". Does that mean I can keep but never sell it? not even to an FFL?
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Old 11-15-2012, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
I guess the part that is tripping me up is "kept for sale". Does that mean I can keep but never sell it? not even to an FFL?
remember that that is a FAQ, a summary of the law and not the PC. YOu need to read the PC for yourself and see how the roster applies to your situation. Remember that the PC normally tells you what you can't do, not what you can.
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  #20  
Old 11-15-2012, 7:44 PM
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STI frames.
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  #21  
Old 11-15-2012, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post

I would love to hear that you are correct because I have a couple that didn't move back to CA with me.
He is correct...Congratulations!
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  #22  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:08 PM
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I'd buy a Sig P938 Nightmare today.
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  #23  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
Okay, then how do you explain this from the CA DOJ roster page?

Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.

I would love to hear that you are correct because I have a couple that didn't move back to CA with me.

So it says you cant bring it in for sale but PPT are exempt. Guess PPT aren't considered sales.
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  #24  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:35 PM
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Go for the exotics that you don't see for sale on the PPT thread on this site like Tan***lio, Canik, Armalite, EEA, Arcus etc. I just don't see these brands.
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Old 11-16-2012, 1:11 AM
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Of my off list guns, my P30, PPQ and HK45 are my favorites. Going to pick up a Lone Wolf Glock frame and build a 17L custom next though.....might be up there with the others!
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  #26  
Old 11-16-2012, 1:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider888 View Post
buy a bunch of Walther PPQ in .9mm, you will have no problem sell them. I'll buy one or two.
This! I'll buy one off you.
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  #27  
Old 11-16-2012, 5:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
I guess the part that is tripping me up is "kept for sale". Does that mean I can keep but never sell it? not even to an FFL?
In order to qualify as a personal handgun importer, you need to intend to keep the handgun you import into CA. [PC 17000(a)(7)]

If you intend to import it for sale, then you do not qualify as a personal handgun importer and the handgun needs to be on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it.



Penal Code 17000
(a) As used in this part, until January 1, 2014, any reference to the term "personal firearm importer" shall be deemed to mean "personal handgun importer" and, on and after January 1, 2014, any reference to the term "personal handgun importer" shall be deemed to mean "personal firearm importer." A "personal handgun importer," until January 1, 2014, and commencing January 1, 2014, a "personal firearm importer" means an individual who meets all of the following criteria:
(1) The individual is not a person licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2 of Division 6 of Title 4.
(2) The individual is not a licensed manufacturer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(3) The individual is not a licensed importer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) The individual is the owner of a firearm.
(5) The individual acquired that firearm outside of California.
(6) The individual moved into this state on or after January 1, 1998, in the case of a handgun, or in the case of a firearm that is not a handgun, on or after January 1, 2014, as a resident of this state.
(7) The individual intends to possess that handgun within this state on or after January 1, 1998, or in the case of a firearm that is not a handgun, he or she intends to possess that firearm within this state on or after January 1, 2014.
(8) The firearm was not delivered to the individual by a person licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2 of Division 6 of Title 4, who delivered that firearm following the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2 of Division 6 of Title 4.
(9) The individual, while a resident of this state, had not previously reported ownership of that firearm to the Department of Justice in a manner prescribed by the department that included information concerning the individual and a description of the firearm.
(10) The firearm is not a firearm that is prohibited by any provision listed in Section 16590.
(11) The firearm is not an assault weapon.
(12) The firearm is not a machinegun.
(13) The person is 18 years of age or older.
(14) The firearm is not a .50 BMG rifle.
(15) The firearm is not a destructive device.
(b) For purposes of paragraph (6) of subdivision (a):
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), residency shall be determined in the same manner as is the case for establishing residency pursuant to Section 12505 of the Vehicle Code.
(2) In the case of a member of the Armed Forces of the United States, residency shall be deemed to be established when the individual was discharged from active service in this state.
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  #28  
Old 11-16-2012, 3:57 PM
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Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I was thinking about buying a PPQ a few weeks ago when Gander Mountain had them on sale, but they were still expensive. Maybe I've become a real cheapskate.
I can't afford a HK45. There are a bunch of XDMs and 4th Gen Glocks at the show, but they sell for full price, something I really don't like to do. I saw some Caspian pistols at the last show, but they were not frames but fully built guns for $$$. I'll look for some STI or Caspian frames that I can build up into nice 1911's in the future. If I come across another fully built AR pistol lower receiver, I'm buying it, since I'm kicking myself for passing up one at the last show selling for $260.
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Old 11-16-2012, 3:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwtt View Post
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I was thinking about buying a PPQ a few weeks ago when Gander Mountain had them on sale, but they were still expensive. Maybe I've become a real cheapskate.
I can't afford a HK45. There are a bunch of XDMs and 4th Gen Glocks at the show, but they sell for full price, something I really don't like to do. I saw some Caspian pistols at the last show, but they were not frames but fully built guns for $$$. I'll look for some STI or Caspian frames that I can build up into nice 1911's in the future. If I come across another fully built AR pistol lower receiver, I'm buying it, since I'm kicking myself for passing up one at the last show selling for $260.
FYI, Brownell's has STI frames. One is on sale for just under 200.
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Old 11-16-2012, 5:09 PM
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If I were you I wouldve stocked up on several off roster hand guns that are not on the roster here and make a nice profit by selling them here. No one will argue with you if you sold a $500 off roster gun for $700 ...
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Old 11-16-2012, 5:57 PM
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S&W M&P Pro 5 inch barrel.
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  #32  
Old 11-19-2012, 10:40 AM
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Here's an update, and I hope noone's disappointed at me eating fast food when gourmet was available. I saw lots of nice guns at the show and decided a $900 HK P30 just wasn't for me. I did find a new STI Spartan for $650 but I had a hard time deciding to spend all of my money on another 1911 or buying two other guns I think I would have more fun shooting. In the end, I bought two low price guns that I would use for recreational shooting. I looked for Caspian or STI frames, but noone had any for sale. Since this show was near the Washington D.C. area, the prices were higher than smaller shows in other parts of VA.

So, for $320, I bought a plastic Witness in small frame to join my metal large frame model.


and for $265, I bought a nice S&W model 22A, dual tone, with a 5.5" slab sided barrel. This one will go nicely with my Ruger Mk II.


Well, that's it for me, and thanks everyone for the suggestions. If I had the money available, I would buy a HK, a Sig, and that STI, but I'm poor.

Last edited by dwtt; 11-19-2012 at 10:43 AM..
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