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  #1  
Old 11-06-2012, 10:50 AM
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Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Default Accidental Discharge

Reading through another Calgunner's post, it reminded me of a story when I was a kid.

I worked at an indoor shooting range when I was a teenager. One of my co-workders had an accidental discharge when he was cleaning a PPK.
He was preparing for dissassembly and wanted to drop the hammer, instead of slowly easing it forward, he points it at the ground and pulls the trigger. BLAMO!!! Everyone in the cash register side of the range hit the deck or crapped themselves.
Talking to him afterwards he claims he checked the chamber before he started cleaning it. Obviously not, since a damn round went off about 10 feet from me.
My manager told me in private that normally he would fire someone for that kind of offense, but we were short staffed and needed to keep him around for a while longer.
From that point on, his nickname was Dumbf###.
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  #2  
Old 11-06-2012, 12:00 PM
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I was nursing a broken right hand. Cleaned my 1911 and was putting it away... I don't store that firearm with the hammer back, so of course I pointed it in a safe direction and pulled the trigger...its milliseconds later I realized I inserted a loaded magazine and dropped the slide before pulling said trigger...

note to self..when storing firearms
1) drop slide
2) pull trigger
3) install magazine

its all in the order of the steps.
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  #3  
Old 11-06-2012, 12:17 PM
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Op, that's considered a negligent discharge since there was nothing mechanically wrong with the gun.

Either way, bet he won't make that mistake again!
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  #4  
Old 11-06-2012, 12:51 PM
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As what Subie said that's no accident.
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  #5  
Old 11-06-2012, 12:54 PM
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Title should be changed to "negligent discharge", as that is what actually happened.
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  #6  
Old 11-06-2012, 2:44 PM
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Accidental Discharge - When a firearm mechanically fails thru no fault of the person holding it and discharges a round.

Negligent Discharge - When a jackass pulls the trigger and the gun goes boom and he/she didnt mean for it to.
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  #7  
Old 11-07-2012, 1:38 AM
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An Accidental Discharge is ANY Discharge of the firearm that was not intended.

An Accidental Discharge is caused by either Negligence or mechanical failure of the firing or safety mechanism.

Intentional Discharge is that which was intended by the handler of the firearm by operating the firing mechanism.

These are guidelines used by law enforcement when assessing criminal culpability. This factor, along with many others, is what is used to determine if an arrest or seizure of the firearm as evidence.
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Last edited by Ron-Solo; 11-07-2012 at 1:46 AM..
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  #8  
Old 11-07-2012, 7:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
An Accidental Discharge is ANY Discharge of the firearm that was not intended.

An Accidental Discharge is caused by either Negligence or mechanical failure of the firing or safety mechanism.

Intentional Discharge is that which was intended by the handler of the firearm by operating the firing mechanism.

These are guidelines used by law enforcement when assessing criminal culpability. This factor, along with many others, is what is used to determine if an arrest or seizure of the firearm as evidence.
Interesting. That's terrible terminology though. The military doesn't use AD anymore, neither should LE.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:42 AM
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PPK? why didn't he use the decocking safety?
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  #10  
Old 11-07-2012, 12:15 PM
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In advanced training for the army (right after basic) we didnít have our weapons until the very last week and went condition red. My heart sank. We're screwed.......

So all these young soldiers who never touched a firearm before basic, and just went 4 months without touching them were all told to carry them condition red (with a blank round in the chamber and two in the magazine). There was 1 or 2 NDís every single day of that last week, and they were all at the clearing barrels.

Mine was the only squad (as squad leader) to not have an ND. I manned the clearing barrel and checked everyone like a hawk.

The biggest errors were young soldiers were not dropping the magazine first, and then violently pulling the charging handle back to eject the live blank.

My biggest frustration was the 1st SGT made us do a million pushups every time a ND went off. Just as inconvenient would have been to put us all in a giant circle and do clearing procedures over and over for an hour. All we got better at was pushups, and not weapon safety familiarity.
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  #11  
Old 11-07-2012, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba Steve33 View Post
Interesting. That's terrible terminology though. The military doesn't use AD anymore, neither should LE.
Military doesn't deal with criminal intent, nor criminal acts as a result of negligence. In a LE aspect, the fact that there was no intent, can be critical. LE must look at things differently than the military in many areas.
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  #12  
Old 11-07-2012, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
Military doesn't deal with criminal intent, nor criminal acts as a result of negligence. In a LE aspect, the fact that there was no intent, can be critical. LE must look at things differently than the military in many areas.
I agree but on this issue there isn't a difference. Firearms safety is the same regardless if you're a soldier, cop or some weekend shooter. Unless the gun mechanically discharged without the operator (which is very rare) it is pure negligence.
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2012, 8:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba Steve33 View Post
I agree but on this issue there isn't a difference. Firearms safety is the same regardless if you're a soldier, cop or some weekend shooter. Unless the gun mechanically discharged without the operator (which is very rare) it is pure negligence.
You know, there really is a difference.

Ron's description is the most succinct and best I've ever seen. It doesn't forgive negligent behavior or redefine it. If you are negligent (which requires a lot more than just pulling a trigger) you should and will be in trouble.

Anytime you discharge a firearm there is potential for negligence. But....

If you are at the range and accidentally double a second round into the back stop, where exactly is the negligence? Sure, you didn't mean to do it but what harm did you cause? If you are skeet shooting and the trigger breaks quicker than you wanted, where's the negligence? Was there potential for negligence? Sure, just like there is potential for negligence firing a single shot revolver at the range. People hit the floor, ceiling walls all too frequently IMO.

Unless you want it to fire, purposely pulling the trigger on a loaded firearm is negligent behavior every time. But from a legal stand point, you can't punish everyone that accidentally lets a round go in an otherwise safe manor.
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2012, 1:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Reading through another Calgunner's post, it reminded me of a story when I was a kid.

I worked at an indoor shooting range when I was a teenager. One of my co-workders had an accidental discharge when he was cleaning a PPK.
He was preparing for dissassembly and wanted to drop the hammer, instead of slowly easing it forward, he points it at the ground and pulls the trigger. BLAMO!!! Everyone in the cash register side of the range hit the deck or crapped themselves.
Talking to him afterwards he claims he checked the chamber before he started cleaning it. Obviously not, since a damn round went off about 10 feet from me.
My manager told me in private that normally he would fire someone for that kind of offense, but we were short staffed and needed to keep him around for a while longer.
From that point on, his nickname was Dumbf###.
Great story, glad u made it. Mgr needs a nickname too for keeping Dumb@@@@ on board after an incident like that regardless if he's short staff.
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2012, 2:10 PM
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I popped a 2 3/4in 00 buck round through my (upstairs) apartment roof while young, drunk and fooling with the shotty. You could see daylight.

Drinking and guns don't mix at all ever.
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