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  #1  
Old 11-05-2012, 2:31 PM
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Default bridging networks in two buildings, any recommendations? SOLVED

I need a way to connect the lan in my house to the lan in another building about 100' away. I have clear line of sight between windows in each building so I'm thinking a wireless bridge will be the cheapest and easiest solution but I don't have much experience with them.

I need to share a 30 Mb internet connection as well as share files and stream video.

I don't want to spend a lot but it needs to be reliable, I don't want to be going back and forth to reset the router all the time. My priorities in order are reliability, security, price, and speed. The faster the better but as long as I am able to take full advantage of my internet connection it will be fast enough.

Can anyone recommend a router or tell me things to look for? At 100ft will directional antennas help or will I get good signal without them?

Last edited by pepsi2451; 12-05-2012 at 10:33 PM..
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2012, 2:35 PM
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I hear a dd-wrt supported router can do a bridge such as this, but I have only tried once, to no avail...

Directional Ant. might be a good option, if you can get a hold of a router that will let you attache the correct adapter.
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  #3  
Old 11-05-2012, 4:52 PM
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So far I'm leaning towards two Asus RT-N16 routers, they support dd-wrt and have external antennas so I can get directional if I need to. I'm still open to suggestions though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833320038
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Old 11-05-2012, 5:21 PM
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Run Ethernet cable more reliable.
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  #5  
Old 11-05-2012, 5:24 PM
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Search "unlicensed microwave" it's basicly directional WiFi
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Old 11-05-2012, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemoose23 View Post
Run Ethernet cable more reliable.
That was my first thought but to bury it I would probably have to make it 150-200 feet. When I was researching I found some people say you shouldn't run Ethernet cable that far underground especially since these buildings are on different power transformers. Others said it would be OK as long as both ends were grounded. In the end I didn't feel like burying all that wire.

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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
Search "unlicensed microwave" it's basicly directional WiFi
I'm searching but I'm not seeing anything in my price range. I only need to go 100 feet.
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  #7  
Old 11-05-2012, 6:44 PM
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You don't necessarily need wifi routers, access point bridges can work a lot of the time and you can vlan on most of them now. However this all depends on what you are wanting to do in terms of traffic between the two sites. I have done this numerous times in enterprise and soho, and it is simple. Yes - models already designed as or putting in directional antennas are helpful in this scenario.
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Old 11-05-2012, 6:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepsi2451 View Post
That was my first thought but to bury it I would probably have to make it 150-200 feet. When I was researching I found some people say you shouldn't run Ethernet cable that far underground especially since these buildings are on different power transformers. Others said it would be OK as long as both ends were grounded. In the end I didn't feel like burying all that wire.
.
that is a good reason to use some fiber to isolate one building from another.
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  #9  
Old 11-05-2012, 8:32 PM
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http://www.ubnt.com/airmax#nanostationm

Look at the Nanostation M

I have a 7 mile P2P link setup with them and has been running for years without any issues.

Hardware is cheap, about $100 per radio.
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  #10  
Old 11-05-2012, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
http://www.ubnt.com/airmax#nanostationm

Look at the Nanostation M

I have a 7 mile P2P link setup with them and has been running for years without any issues.

Hardware is cheap, about $100 per radio.
Thanks! Looks like that might be just what I was looking for.
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  #11  
Old 11-05-2012, 9:31 PM
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2012, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepsi2451 View Post
Thanks! Looks like that might be just what I was looking for.
If you have questions send me a PM, I’ve been using their gear for quite some time.
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Old 11-07-2012, 6:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laythor View Post
I don't really want to run copper between buildings on separate power transformers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
that is a good reason to use some fiber to isolate one building from another.
That would probably be ideal but I don't really want to spend that much and I don't really feel like running the conduit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
If you have questions send me a PM, I’ve been using their gear for quite some time.
Thanks. I think I'm going to go with two Nanostation M2 Locos unless someone sees a reason they wouldn't work.
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  #14  
Old 11-07-2012, 7:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepsi2451 View Post

Thanks. I think I'm going to go with two Nanostation M2 Locos unless someone sees a reason they wouldn't work.
They will work fine...

Each unit can be configured as a Router or Bridge: Station, Access Point, Station WDS, and Access Point WDS modes.

You can configure them to be complete repeater style large scale wireless distribution array or a single transparent layer 2 bridge; which is what you are trying to accomplish.
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  #15  
Old 11-11-2012, 9:58 AM
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You should consider the M5 as the 2.4ghz M2 spectrum is very crowded.
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2012, 11:15 AM
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Ubiquity hands down. They are ROCK solid. For just 100 feet these should be plenty.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o00_s00_i00

I have 4 of them sitting on my desk right now. They will be deployed in Vegas this week for a temporary LAN I am setting up in the parking lot of the Rio hotel for this race ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV2lybdqLdo ).

I struggled with stupid consumer bridges with stupid cantennas and hours of aiming for a few years until being turned on to these, they have been as reliable as wire, and that says a lot about any wifi tech.
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  #17  
Old 11-11-2012, 2:34 PM
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^^^
Are those just antennas or do they have bridge/routing capability? From reading the descriptions it sounds like they can be used for routing.
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Old 11-11-2012, 2:43 PM
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I have to admit, I have always configured them as access points or bridges so I am not sure if they can be configured as routers. Most of them have single ethernet ports so their use as a router to most people will be limited.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
^^^
Are those just antennas or do they have bridge/routing capability? From reading the descriptions it sounds like they can be used for routing.
Each unit is a complete radio with firmware. Antenna is internal and also directional. Different models have different antenna designs, for example an 80 degree spread vs 15 degree…

They also sell radios without antennas, and antennas separately. Like the Airmax Rocket M + all their various antenna designs so you can design your own systems.
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  #20  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
I have to admit, I have always configured them as access points or bridges so I am not sure if they can be configured as routers. Most of them have single ethernet ports so their use as a router to most people will be limited.
They can be configured as a router but it’s to provide basic NAT / Route type functions. It’s not to be confused with or replace something like a firewall/router which most of us are familiar with.

By the way, nice video and application for the radio. I bought a couple for professional installs, and liked them so much I have a couple Picostations, Nanostation2, and Nanostation 5 radios at home for personal use.

Last edited by ExtremeX; 11-12-2012 at 11:24 AM..
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  #21  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:24 AM
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Why not just and IPSEC VPN between the offices. As long as you have an ISP at both locations. This would be the cheapest and most reliable solution. Not to mention easiest to setup.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Kokak View Post
Why not just and IPSEC VPN between the offices. As long as you have an ISP at both locations. This would be the cheapest and most reliable solution. Not to mention easiest to setup.
IPSec VPN would NOT be the cheapest and most reliable solution. IPSec VPN is also dog slow comparison….

These radios can provide a solid sustained 100mbps +
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:31 AM
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does the building run on the same electric meter box ?

if so give "powerline" networking a try, simple setup and no need to run a cable out to the building and no wifi loss and flaky reception ...
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeepers View Post
does the building run on the same electric meter box ?

if so give "powerline" networking a try, simple setup and no need to run a cable out to the building and no wifi loss and flaky reception ...
I have never tried power line networking… so I don’t know how it would work in comparison.

I don’t think I would lump this hardware into the category of consumer style wireless devices.

My active links using these products have had amazing uptime and performance. Rain, snow, heat, you name it. These same products are being used by internet service providers to distribute internet to remote locations.

Most people don’t realize than many ISPs use hardware like this in the backhauls to actually provide wired internet services.

I got a lot of respect for Ubiquity… they design and develop professional products at a price point that is in the reach of the typically consumer with performance of products that cost A LOT more. Check out airFiber and let me know of another solution that can be had for the same price…



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Old 11-12-2012, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
I have never tried power line networking… so I don’t know how it would work in comparison.

I don’t think I would lump this hardware into the category of consumer style wireless devices.

My active links using these products have had amazing uptime and performance. Rain, snow, heat, you name it. These same products are being used by internet service providers to distribute internet to remote locations.

Most people don’t realize than many ISPs use hardware like this in the backhauls to actually provide wired internet services.

I got a lot of respect for Ubiquity… they design and develop professional products at a price point that is in the reach of the typically consumer with performance of products that cost A LOT more. Check out airFiber and let me know of another solution that can be had for the same price…



i beta test network hardware for major tech companies and the newer consumer powerline/homeplug products work as advertised , the only reason i even still have WIFI is for beta testing and the few items i have that don't use cat5 like the kids Wii and kindle fire other then that WIFI is dead to me ...
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Old 11-12-2012, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepers View Post
i beta test network hardware for major tech companies and the newer consumer powerline/homeplug products work as advertised , the only reason i even still have WIFI is for beta testing and the few items i have that don't use cat5 like the kids Wii and kindle fire other then that WIFI is dead to me ...
Being a huge hardwire guy I don’t generally promote wireless products, but you really have to look at application. For bridge, non-wired data distribution carrier class products like these are HARD to beat.

I have an installation where I saved a customer $1200 a month in just ISP costs, + $4800 in hardware (VPN firewalls) using a onetime cost of $1500 for wireless hardware from ubiquity. This was to distribute internet to 12 apartment complexes he owns and also drive IP security cameras in a central DVR to a single location at LAN speeds. Not only was the performance increase, he saves 14k per year in ISP costs to be able to view cameras at each location.

While what you are proposing may be fine for in home use, wifi technology is FAR from dead. If anything it’s growing at an exponential rate.
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Old 11-12-2012, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Being a huge hardwire guy I don’t generally promote wireless products, but you really have to look at application. For bridge, non-wired data distribution carrier class products like these are HARD to beat.

I have an installation where I saved a customer $1200 a month in just ISP costs, + $4800 in hardware (VPN firewalls) using a onetime cost of $1500 for wireless hardware from ubiquity. This was to distribute internet to 12 apartment complexes he owns and also drive IP security cameras in a central DVR to a single location at LAN speeds. Not only was the performance increase, he saves 14k per year in ISP costs to be able to view cameras at each location.

While what you are proposing may be fine for in home use, wifi technology is FAR from dead. If anything it’s growing at an exponential rate.
i didnt not say WIFI was dead , i said WIFI was dead to me as a end user.. there are many applications that WIFI have there use but in the home network consumer market there are easier, more secure and cheaper choices out there now then compared to just a few years ago ....
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Old 11-12-2012, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemoose23 View Post
Run Ethernet cable more reliable.
Yeah cable is the most reliable, and you'll have better bandwidth. Of course I understand this may not be possible, but burying it might be an option in 100 feet of conduit, or even pvc pipes.
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  #29  
Old 11-14-2012, 9:31 PM
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If you're even considering running cable, forget about that and step it up a bit run fiber. The material cost on 6 strand Multi mode is not that much higher Then cat 6.

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  #30  
Old 11-14-2012, 9:56 PM
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If you're even considering running cable, forget about that and step it up a bit run fiber. The material cost on 6 strand Multi mode is not that much higher Then cat 6.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2
That material costs may not be high, but you still have to account for the Transceiver + fiber ready switch or a fiber switch. We did some backbone runs at our office between HP Procurve switches and the fiber switch adapters weren’t exactly cheap.

Considering its only 100 feet, that can be accomplished with a couple small managed switches and copper cable and still get redundancy and increased bandwidth with port trunking. Question is does the OP need it the bandwidth, if yes, then it’s worth the effort.

Either one of those options are still more expensive than just some simple PTP bridges… but those other options would sure be more robust.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:06 PM
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Wait, a ProCurve runs around 4 grand for a 48 port switch. 100 megabit transceivers are around 100 bucks an end. So you only spent a few 100 bucks extra up front but it's a fully scaleable solution.

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Old 12-05-2012, 11:39 AM
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I must have lost track of this thread, I just found it again so I guess I will post an update. I ended up ordering two Nanostation M2 Locos. They came to right around $115 total after tax and shipping. I don't see how I could beat them for the price. Setup was super easy, I was planning to mount them outdoors but I just pointed them out the windows to try them out and they worked so good I haven't gotten around to mounting them yet. I get and easy 100+Mbps which is more then I really need and I have only had to restart them once so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan4610 View Post
You should consider the M5 as the 2.4ghz M2 spectrum is very crowded.
Luckily it isn't to bad where I am. I can only see two other APs that arent mine, one from each building.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokak View Post
Why not just and IPSEC VPN between the offices. As long as you have an ISP at both locations. This would be the cheapest and most reliable solution. Not to mention easiest to setup.
I don't have an internet connection in both buildings, sharing a connection is the main reason I wanted to do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepers View Post
does the building run on the same electric meter box ?

if so give "powerline" networking a try, simple setup and no need to run a cable out to the building and no wifi loss and flaky reception ...
Different meters and different transformers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
Wait, a ProCurve runs around 4 grand for a 48 port switch. 100 megabit transceivers are around 100 bucks an end. So you only spent a few 100 bucks extra up front but it's a fully scaleable solution.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2
I really wanted to go fiber but I didn't really need the extra bandwidth so I couldn't justify the extra cost plus the trouble of installing it.
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  #33  
Old 12-11-2012, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
check out www.cyberguys.com

They have things that allow you to do that.
Like this:

http://www.cyberguys.com/product-det...roductid=62258
The Ubiquity stuff is FAR superior (and cheaper) than the product you have referenced.
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Old 12-11-2012, 5:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
The Ubiquity stuff is FAR superior (and cheaper) than the product you have referenced.
Do you mean Ubiquiti ?

Thank you for that update. I will check them out. I have never had to do a project like this and I was only aware of oone place that had some cool looking stuff. Now I have two places...
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Old 12-11-2012, 6:00 PM
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Originally Posted by stilly View Post
Do you mean Ubiquiti ?

Thank you for that update. I will check them out. I have never had to do a project like this and I was only aware of oone place that had some cool looking stuff. Now I have two places...
There are so many PTP wireless vendors on the market it would make your head spin…

Ubiquiti is a very good one that makes carrier class hardware on the cheap. They are one of the fastest growing brands in the space and have a well-earned reputation, but they are not the only option around… It just happens to be one I use a lot due to its price point and overall quality/performance.

Other brands like Engenius, mWave, Tranzeo, Motorola, Aruba, Cisco...

Just got to start shopping at places that specialize in this type of stuff.
http://www.streakwave.com/manufacturers.asp
http://www.wirelessnetworkproducts.com/index.aspx
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  #36  
Old 12-13-2012, 6:51 PM
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Cheapest router with dd-wrt and a direction yagi antenna (get both from ebay). Works great. Do it all the time. dd-wrt will let you do all sorts of awesome things and is easy to use.
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  #37  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:04 AM
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STRONG ++++1 on Ubiquiti products. I do engineering for a security firm and we use them routinely when fiber is not available for transmission between several buildings and remote infrastructure points and can agree with every one's testament of their products.
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