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Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

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  #1  
Old 10-28-2012, 9:39 AM
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Default 45acp, 200Gr Reload - Issue/ Input Needed

Been shooting my dad's 4506-1 a fair amount lately with factory 230 RN and my reload using xtreme 230 plated RN, W231 @ 5.2 and OAL at 1.26". These all have functioned flawlessly. I just made some test loads using xtreme 200 plated RN, W231 @ 5.0 and OAL 1.25".

The 200 gr didn't perform. I believe the issue is referred to as failure to eject and all the cases were holding the slide open and parallel to the barrel? After one clip, having the issue consistently, I put those away for now, although some did cycle as well.

Is this problem what is referred to as a failure to eject?

My guess is that they will cycle if I use a reduced recoil spring? Or, up the 231 powder in another test batch?

I assume the OAL of 1.25" isn't an issue since the 1.26" works fine?

Thanks!

Last edited by 03fatboy; 10-28-2012 at 9:45 AM..
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Old 10-28-2012, 9:45 AM
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Could be the charge at 5.0 grains is not enough to cycle the pistol; If 5.2 gn is working. When working up your loads, you should only change 1 variable at a time, like COL or charge, etc.

I've never used that powder, so I can't really comment on that charge weight. But that's my guess.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-Hero View Post
Could be the charge at 5.0 grains is not enough to cycle the pistol; If 5.2 gn is working. When working up your loads, you should only change 1 variable at a time, like COL or charge, etc.

I've never used that powder, so I can't really comment on that charge weight. But that's my guess.
this, if you change one variable at a time you wont know which one actually works.
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:12 PM
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I use that bullet with 5 grains of bullseye at 1.260, functions in my Springfield flawlessly.
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  #5  
Old 10-28-2012, 12:41 PM
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Did you drop the round into the chamber to make sure it fits? Backwards and forwards? It should make a distinct "thunk."

Try working up your load first.

Then change your COAL next.

No need to change your recoil spring if it works just fine.

5.0 W231 behind a 200 plated RN is around ~700 FPS. You might not be cycling the slide all the way, especially if the gun is a full size 1911.

My 200 gr recipe: 5.4 gr W231, 200 gr xtreme bullets, 1.250 COAL, CCI 300, Federal or Remington cases.
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Last edited by NiteQwill; 10-28-2012 at 4:46 PM..
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:43 PM
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OP, I would re-work all your charges, move it higher than the 5gr of W231 until you get to max. IF that does not take care of the problem, do it again but this time with a different COAL.
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:50 PM
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THIS LOAD CYCLES MY XD45 AND SW1911 FINE. I CAN DROP TO 4.8G HP 38 (SAME AS W231) WITH NO MODS TO THE SPRINGS. . YOU SURE YOUR SCALE IS WORKING RIGHT? ARE YOUR PRIMERS FUNCTIONING FINE? POSSIBLY NEEDS A DEEPER BULLET SEAT AS WELL. SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE POWDER (MOISTURE, ETC)? MAKE SURE THE OAL IS OK, DITTO ON THE RECOIL SPRING, BUT YOU MIGHT JUST WANNA CHRONO THE LOAD AS WELL TO SEE IF ITS INTHE VELOCITY RANGE.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:52 PM
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FORGOT TO MENTION, MAKE SURE YOUR GRIP AND RECOIL MGMT IS FINE AS WELL, YOU GET FTE WHEN SOMEONE ELSE SHOOTS IT?
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Old 10-28-2012, 1:59 PM
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It is likely a little light for your particular gun. You could move it up to say 5.4gr (move it up .2gr at a time) and it would likely start cycling. You could also drop in a lighter recoil spring and run those loads. If you have a lighter spring, give it a try.
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Old 10-28-2012, 4:44 PM
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We are shooting it out of a S&W 4506-1. It has functioned flawlessly with the 230gr with 5.2 of W231, 230 plated RN. I think I will first up the charge to 5.2 then 5.4. I assume this will do it and I don't have a lighter spring and don't really want to change it. I didn't try this load in my Colt 1911 either, which may function it fine, eventually I'll find the load for both, and keep my loading simple. I had my Dad shoot it, and the same thing occurred, so grip etc...shouldn't be the issue. Using a dillon 550 which meters 231 fine. Primers, powder are all fine, I check my loads both with a beam scale and digital with intermittent checks, no issues there either, I'm very systematic in my setup.

Bill Steele, what do you think of the OAL? Why drop the bullet in backwords as suggested? What am I looking for other than it fits and goes in and out easily? How do I know if OAL is the issue when dropping in the barrel, visually will I see something or what should I be looking for? I won't change the OAL when I make the powder adjustment. I used a Dillon gage die to check fit with no issues, dropped right in. Not sure I checked the 200 gr bullet in the barrel though, but did check the 230 gr bullet in the barrel and it was fine (i think, maybe I'm missing something), both were checked with the dillon gage though. If one fit fine why wouldn't the shorter OAL fit?

As suggested, I also suspect because this round functions others gun fine, only means I need to find the right combination for my guns, and this could still be problem in others?

Last edited by 03fatboy; 10-28-2012 at 4:58 PM..
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  #11  
Old 10-28-2012, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03fatboy View Post
We are shooting it out of a S&W 4506-1. It has functioned flawlessly with the 230gr with 5.2 of W231, 230 plated RN. I think I will first up the charge to 5.2 then 5.4. I assume this will do it and I don't have a lighter spring and don't really want to change it. I didn't try this load in my Colt 1911 either, which may function it fine, eventually I'll find the load for both, and keep my loading simple. I had my Dad shoot it, and the same thing occurred, so grip etc...shouldn't be the issue. Using a dillon 550 which meters 231 fine. Primers, powder are all fine, I check my loads both with a beam scale and digital with intermittent checks, no issues there either, I'm very systematic in my setup.

Bill Steele, what do you think of the OAL? Why drop the bullet in backwords as suggested? What am I looking for other than it fits and goes in and out easily? How do I know if OAL is the issue when dropping in the barrel, visually will I see something or what should I be looking for? I won't change the OAL when I make the powder adjustment. I used a Dillon gage die to check fit with no issues, dropped right in. Not sure I checked the 200 gr bullet in the barrel though, but did check the 230 gr bullet in the barrel and it was fine (i think, maybe I'm missing something), both were checked with the dillon gage though. If one fit fine why wouldn't the shorter OAL fit?

As suggested, I also suspect because this round functions others gun fine, only means I need to find the right combination for my guns, and this could still be problem in others?
The OAL sounds fine to me. The drop test is to make sure the round will chamber cleanly (i.e. your brass is sized properly, the crimp is taking the belling out and the bullet isn't hanging up in the throat). None of these issues sound like your problem.

Honestly, it sounds like the load under the heavier (230gr) bullet is adequate to cycle the gun but when you drop down to the 200 grain slug you are getting enough reduction in recoil that it is causing your cycling issues. According to Hodgdon, you have some headroom load wise, so I would bump it up and see how it goes. It is amazing how little additional powder it takes sometimes to address this kind of problem.
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2012, 6:12 PM
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You dropped bullet weight and charge weight. With a lighter bullet, your charge weight should have increased. I have been shooting the same bullet with Bullseye. I like the combo.
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Old 10-28-2012, 6:38 PM
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Definitely work up that charge weight.
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Old 10-29-2012, 2:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooterbill View Post
You dropped bullet weight and charge weight. With a lighter bullet, your charge weight should have increased. I have been shooting the same bullet with Bullseye. I like the combo.
this all day long

as bullet weight decreases powder should increase
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Old 10-29-2012, 7:04 AM
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One trick you might try that might get you through the remaining undercharged rounds is to field strip the gun and lube the heck out of the slide.

I had a 92FS Beretta that I used to shoot a lot of light loads through. Once in a while I would get to a load that was so light it wouldn't cycle. Lots of gun oil on the slide, locking block and plunger and sometimes I could get it to cycle enough to get through 50-100 rounds. Kept me from having to pull them.
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Old 10-29-2012, 9:00 AM
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Thanks for the suggestion Bill, I wasn't looking forward to pulling them and was going to try them through my Colt on the next range visit so I will also lube up the 4506 as well to to see if can empty them (~40 rounds).

I will make new 200gr rounds, and only a handful of each powder charge at 5.2 - 5.4. My guess is these will hit the sweet spot.

Thanks all for the input.
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Old 10-29-2012, 9:15 AM
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I use Tite Group at 4.8gr with a 200gr plated RN (extreme) with a 1.20 COL and functions perfect. Yes, the Hodgdon burns a little faster and much cleaner.
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Old 10-29-2012, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4D5auto View Post
I use Tite Group at 4.8gr with a 200gr plated RN (extreme) with a 1.20 COL and functions perfect. Yes, the Hodgdon burns a little faster and much cleaner.
that is the exact load I was using with 200 gn as well (besides OAL) for a good while.

My 1911 Doesn't like short rounds, and I load all Round nose to 1.270
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