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  #1  
Old 09-28-2012, 1:49 PM
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Default ugh what's going on with my loads? Update

note: I know most of you don't need an update as we've pretty much camee to the conclusion as to what the issue is. But I just wanted to share because at some point another person will come across the same situation and hopefully this thread will be helpful

update#2:Went to the range again, a week later than planned. Obviously my main thinking is still that it is the bullet, which kind of confirmed by the fact that bulk cheapo 55grainers are doing better than match grade bullets. I did improve the groups a bit but it's still well above 1 moa and I know my rifle can do much better. All my dies were cleaned and re-installed perfectly. I used fresh Hornady brass. Brass prep was meticulous. Charges thrown with the newly acquired Chargemaster.

At 100 Yards:
5rnds - 68gr HDY (problem batch), 22.7 TAC --> 1.35moa
5rnds - 68gr HDY (new batch), 22.7 TAC --> 1.55moa
5rnds - 68gr HDY (new batch), 25 Varget --> 1.36moa
5rnds - 68gr HDY (new batch), 22.7 TAC --> 1.88moa crimped
5rnds - 55gr WIN FMJ, 22.7 TAC --> 1.18moa

I used this as an excuse to buy a RCBS Chargemaster and a bullet comparator. And ordered some Nosler 69gr, so I'll be comparing them side by side.

I also re-weighed the bullets using the Chargemaster: weighed 30 bullets
HDY 68gr --> avg:67.82gr sd:0.063gr Not one bullet weighed 68grains
NOS 69gr --> avg:68.98gr sd:0.027

Also measured bullets from base-to-ogive: measured 30 bullets
HDY 68gr --> avg:0.5965" sd:0.000972"
NOS 69gr --> avg:0.0520" sd:0.000943"

still using cheapo calipers

Assuming the Nosler's perform I'm going to put the Hornady's aside until I get my new upper which will have a 1/7twist and see if they perform in that barrel




update#1: went to the range this AM. I was still all over the place, not even worth measuring. I also shot 4x5 round groups of 75gr Hornady TAP, which all came in well under MOA with the best group at 0.556" (cool number). So it wasnt me (well its me diring the loading process) or my gear.

Used once fired, out of my rifle, brass that was FL sized pushing the shoulder and trimmed. Only thing I noticed during case prep is that I have to update my trimmer (using Lee zip). The gauge sets the timer to 1.7540" so there are cases ranging from 1.740"-1.753". Would this cause over 2moa groups? I changed seating OAL to 2.225" which is what my notes show was the depth when I previously used this bullet.

On my next trip I'm going to hand trim every case to 1.750" and compare crimped vs. non crimped


Original Post
Frustrating morning at the range. Previously favor loads are being beat out by previous crap loads. A new bullet that has previously performed well was all over the place. Any input appreciated!

Pre-range: Rifles got a thorough cleaning this week. But before testing loads I fired 10 fouling shots through each of the rifles.

Shooting: Considering recent cleaning I tested round robin style, 2 minutes timed between each shot for consistent barrel cooling. Timed cease-fires for the same reason. I was probably a big part of crappy groups, was a little tense for whatever reason, but definitely not for the extreme crazy big groups in .223

Mistake: My lowest loads were messed up because I took the fouling shots at the 500yd gong and forgot to bring scopes back to zero, so 4 shot groups instead of 5. Made this mistake twice.

.223
Recipe:
68gr Hornady HPBT Match
RAM TAC 22.5, 22.7, 23, 23.5, 23.7, 24
CCI 41
Black Hills Brass
2.255" OAL

Rifle: AR15 RRA 16" 1/9
This was just a failure all the way around. Nothing under 1.5MOA!! I just switched back to this bullet after using Nosler 69gr. In the past I was getting solid .75MOA if not better. I chose to go back to this round due to high BC. Only thing that I changed since the past was OAL, I went from 2.20" to 2.255" so I'll have to retry this. Also my brass is on it's 5th reloading, could this be causing these terrible groups?

ETA: Measured and weighed bullets. Grains went from 68gr to 66.7gr. Length from 0.9905" to 0.9845". Diameter from .2225" to .2235", none at .224"? Is this variance normal?

Well at least I got to shoot today!

Last edited by mroels; 10-16-2012 at 10:58 PM..
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Old 09-28-2012, 5:17 PM
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Since you mentioned that your on your 5th firing on your brass, it could be the neck tension (possibly a bit loose) is different from the previous firing. You may need to anneal the neck or get new brass. Try new brass first before you anneal and see if your grouping improves.
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Old 09-28-2012, 5:29 PM
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I guess it could be the brass, although I full length size the .223. So would that still affect the neck tension? And would it cause groups to go from .75moa to over 2moa from one firing to the next?

Well I got more brass I guess it time to toss this batch. No annealing set up yet.
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Old 09-28-2012, 5:34 PM
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What r the chances it's you and not your gear?
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Old 09-28-2012, 5:45 PM
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If you are full length sizing, you are still sizing the neck, or should be. Otherwise, your bullets would fall through the neck. Usually (as with the Lee die), the die under sizes the neck and an expansion ball pulls it back out to the correct size. This works the neck more than a collet neck sizer that only squeezes the neck against a mandrel.
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Old 09-28-2012, 6:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the led farmer View Post
What r the chances it's you and not your gear?
Normally I would blame it on me. But going from .75moa to 2+moa? I'll take half the blame but that still leaves a big change to be explained.

Eta: I could take 100% of the blame if we include anything I could've done wrong during the loading process. But in that case I'd still want to know what I might've done wrong.

Last edited by mroels; 09-28-2012 at 6:09 PM..
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Old 09-28-2012, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rsrocket1 View Post
If you are full length sizing, you are still sizing the neck, or should be. Otherwise, your bullets would fall through the neck. Usually (as with the Lee die), the die under sizes the neck and an expansion ball pulls it back out to the correct size. This works the neck more than a collet neck sizer that only squeezes the neck against a mandrel.
I understand the process of full length resizing. But would the 5th reloading of the brass cause it to over expand, due to weakening of the brass, when the expansion ball runs through it?

With the collet die I could see the brass springing back due to multiple uses, but with FL sizing considering the initial under sizing of the neck would this happen still? Btw is any of this offset by the fact that I apply a light crimp?
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Old 09-28-2012, 7:15 PM
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I don't load 223 so I can't speak to the things that can go wrong with that specific caliber. I posted on another thread that I got what I suspect we're some knock off Hornaday bullets. The ES on the measurements you took on the bullets seems larger than I normally see on 308 bullets that weigh three times as much, so I would look first at he bullets. One thing I do now is use the comparator and measure ogives on the raw bullets, they should be within .001 base to ogive's bullet to bullet.

On the difference of the "sweet spot" moving on the 308, I doubt more neck tension would move the node. I have found run of the mill LC brass has some pretty wide spreads in case volumes in a given headstamp (year). Different case volumes will give you very different pressures/velocities for the same load, maybe the node moved because the volumes moved?

I have found it much easier to develop and reproduce consistent loads by using quality brass. My favorite brass is Lapua.
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Last edited by Bill Steele; 09-28-2012 at 7:19 PM..
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Old 09-28-2012, 7:45 PM
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I remember reading your thread on the possible knock off which is why I initially measured the bullets. I got them from midway about a month ago, but they were in plastic though.

As for LC case volume...I'm thinking that too so I've got some lapua coming my way!
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Old 09-28-2012, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroels View Post
I remember reading your thread on the possible knock off which is why I initially measured the bullets. I got them from midway about a month ago, but they were in plastic though.

As for LC case volume...I'm thinking that too so I've got some lapua coming my way!
If you haven't done it, try measuring the base to ogive's with a comparator. See if the ogive's to base dimension is consistent. I guess it is possible Hornaday is having production problems. I tried everything, those. 155 AMAXs were garbage. I tried some 178's that measured fine and got to a .2 MOA group first ladder I loaded, so I think something was wrong with the bullets.

Sorry to hear you ordered that Lapua brass, no going back now! When you get them take a close look at he cases, amazing, look into the case with some light, check out the flash hole, no burrs, perfectly round, the only way to go.
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Old 09-28-2012, 7:58 PM
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Did you ever hear back from hornady? I'm gonna give these a try with some fresh brass see if it improves, if not I'll go back to nosler. I just added the bullet comparator to my brass order... Funny that I'm ordering a hornady product to check hornady quality.

I've been using lapua brass for my .223 bolt action. Just got my .308 a couple of months ago so hadn't bought better brass yet.
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Old 09-28-2012, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroels View Post
Did you ever hear back from hornady? I'm gonna give these a try with some fresh brass see if it improves, if not I'll go back to nosler. I just added the bullet comparator to my brass order... Funny that I'm ordering a hornady product to check hornady quality.

I've been using lapua brass for my .223 bolt action. Just got my .308 a couple of months ago so hadn't bought better brass yet.
I talked to the tech support guys and they could not explain the dimensions I was seeing but confirmed it was really waaay off. They confirmed the lot number and that they should have been bagged, but said they were manufactured in mid-2010, so something was goofy.

They offered to send me some free stuff to make it up to me, but I told them I thought it was likely not their problem.

I have had really good luck with Hornaday bullets in general and just tried some of their 308 cases and they seem to be working pretty well (that is what I used on the 178gr AMAXs I tried). Their cases are not as nice as Lapua, but for the money, seem pretty darn good. The comparator will make life easier. Did you get the headspace attachments so you can also check the shoulders? I think Grafs sells those separately if you didn't.
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Old 09-28-2012, 8:37 PM
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Didn't get the headspace attachment because I have rcbs mics for both my calibers.

But I'm gonna retry those bullets with fresher brass. And for the .308 I'll wait for the lapua to arrive. I've got time...waiting for my magneto speed next Thursday!

Last edited by mroels; 09-28-2012 at 8:39 PM..
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Old 09-28-2012, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mroels View Post
Didn't get the headspace attachment because I have rcbs mics for both my calibers.

But I'm gonna retry those bullets with fresher brass. And for the .308 I'll wait for the lapua to arrive. I've got time...waiting for my magneto speed next Thursday!
I think my Magnetospeed was the best investment I have made in shooting in years. I had mine out he other day and a guy was fiddling was his traditional setup, checking lines, distance from the muzzle, wondering if the marine layer was going to stay or burn off, having to wait for the next cease fire to make an adjustment, wondering if those kids next to him were going to shoot it up, etc. etc. My MS has never missed a shot. Enjoy.
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Old 09-28-2012, 9:13 PM
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Twice the group size... I usually check the accessories like scope, screws, mounts first instead of blaming reload components but.... the "Hornady" bullets diameter is definitely too small. The grooves of the rifling is .224" so your bullet is smaller than your bore. No accuracy can come from such fit especially when they're inconsistent.

I've never had good luck with Hornady match grade bullets compare to SMK or Nosler CC especially the .224 cal. I had a 500rd box of 6.5 SMKs that had 2 distinctly different ogive-to-base measurements. Because I load them close to the lands, group sizes were inconsistent if unsorted. so I ended up sorting them by hand. Now I spot check each box of bullets before I load.

I'm not sure why you increased your 223's OAL by .350". It shouldn't even load in the mag at 2.55". If you shoot them mag fed, you may be setting the bullet back into the case which can cause accuracy as well as pressure problems.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huckberry668 View Post
Twice the group size... I usually check the accessories like scope, screws, mounts first instead of blaming reload components but.... the "Hornady" bullets diameter is definitely too small. The grooves of the rifling is .224" so your bullet is smaller than your bore. No accuracy can come from such fit especially when they're inconsistent.

I'm not sure why you increased your 223's OAL by .350". It shouldn't even load in the mag at 2.55". If you shoot them mag fed, you may be setting the bullet back into the case which can cause accuracy as well as pressure problems.
I checked mounts etc with torque wrench. It could be the scope but the fouling shots at the beginning of my shoot were with factory black hills and the scope tracked great out to 500yds, so I don't think that's it. I wish I had some factory rounds left to see what groups they'd shoot at 100.


Little typo in my oal went from 2.20" to 2.255" not to 2.55"
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Old 10-01-2012, 1:11 PM
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Update in OP
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Old 10-01-2012, 8:32 PM
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Dude, it's your bullets! .2225" to .2235" diameters are too small and varied too much to shoot accurately.
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Old 10-01-2012, 9:05 PM
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Nowhere do I see chronograph numbers.

My sympathies though, I have fought these battles.

1. Use 1 head stamp of brass
2. weigh your trimmed brass and sort out ones that weigh the closest together
3. weigh and measure your bullets and sort accordingly
4. find out where your bullet choice touches rifling and back off accordingly. measure off of ogive for consistancy
5. parse through different primer mfg
6. parse through powders/weights. start low and add 3% increments
7. Always check for signs of preasure!!!

And sometimes, you just gotta push them hard to shoot well. Get a chrony and LOG EVERYTHING. If you can't find something that produces consistent velocities, you will never get precise groupings. Pick 1 rifle/caliber/load and run it to ground. Don't change more than 1 thing at a time.

Good luck and keep us posted.

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Old 10-01-2012, 9:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huckberry668 View Post
Dude, it's your bullets! .2225" to .2235" diameters are too small and varied too much to shoot accurately.
I agree with you. From the measurements I took everything points to bad quality control. I've measured 60 bullets from three different boxes all with different lot #s. Waiting on my ogive comparator to measure those same bullets.

However, before try to return these I want to make sure everything else in my reloading process is sound. I don't want to return these, get Noslers only to find out I'm messing something else up.
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Old 10-01-2012, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mroels View Post
Update in OP
I agree with Huck, it has to be the bullets. I think maybe somebody is selling knockoff Hornaday bullets as I have never seen the kind of crap variances I saw with those 155 AMAX's and your bullets. As I said, I tried some 178 AMAX's and they shot like lasers. I just received a shipment of 168gr AMAX's from PV and they were all spot on dimensionally.

You didn't happen to buy the bullets from Cabela's did you? That is who I got the bad 155's from.
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Old 10-01-2012, 9:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choprzrul View Post
Nowhere do I see chronograph numbers.

My sympathies though, I have fought these battles.

1. Use 1 head stamp of brass
2. weigh your trimmed brass and sort out ones that weigh the closest together
3. weigh and measure your bullets and sort accordingly
4. find out where your bullet choice touches rifling and back off accordingly. measure off of ogive for consistancy
5. parse through different primer mfg
6. parse through powders/weights. start low and add 3% increments
7. Always check for signs of preasure!!!

And sometimes, you just gotta push them hard to shoot well. Get a chrony and LOG EVERYTHING. If you can't find something that produces consistent velocities, you will never get precise groupings. Pick 1 rifle/caliber/load and run it to ground. Don't change more than 1 thing at a time.

Good luck and keep us posted.

.
Getting my chrono on Thursday.

1. I'm using one head stamp of brass
2. Brass is all weighed within .3gr of each other
3. While I don't want to make this a habit, I will do this for my next trip. I'll do a group sorted by weight and a group sorted by length.
4. This is for my AR so needs to be loaded to mag length. But I've single-loaded in the past and this rifle rifle and bullet like a jump.
5. Only have one brand of rifle primers right now
6. I will try some different powders for my next trip. Up to now its been with TAC but I've covered to spectrum from min to max.
7. Always checking for signs

I log as much as I can in Excel. I couldn't be bothered to measure groups today as they were all well over 2"@100yds. I haven't changed anything other than OAL in my last two outings. I never chronod any rounds because I've been saving up...this problem started right as I got enough money for one so its en route. Hopefully it'll help.
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Old 10-01-2012, 9:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Steele View Post
I agree with Huck, it has to be the bullets. I think maybe somebody is selling knockoff Hornaday bullets as I have never seen the kind of crap variances I saw with those 155 AMAX's and your bullets. As I said, I tried some 178 AMAX's and they shot like lasers. I just received a shipment of 168gr AMAX's from PV and they were all spot on dimensionally.

You didn't happen to buy the bullets from Cabela's did you? That is who I got the bad 155's from.
Order was from midway. Just got 500 168gr AMAX and checked those, all within .1gr, length and diameter good too. I'm gonna be super anal about my case prep for my next range trip, which should be Monday. If I can't get good results then I'll order Noslers again and contact midway/hornady about these bullets. I've never had to return anything to either of them but I heard that midway is easy to deal with.


The said thing is that the Black Hills 68gr (which uses this bullet) was the main reason I got into reloading. It was my rifle's favorite factory load and I wanted to reproduce it for cheaper. It was the first bullet I reloaded with and my rifle loved it. Switched to Nosler because of a sale and now switched back and it just sucks.

Last edited by mroels; 10-01-2012 at 9:39 PM..
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Old 10-01-2012, 9:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroels View Post
Order was from midway. Just got 500 168gr AMAX and checked those, all within .1gr, length and diameter good too. I'm gonna be super anal about my case prep for my next range trip, which should be Monday. If I can't get good results then I'll order Noslers again and contact midway/hornady about these bullets. I've never had to return anything to either of them but I heard that midway is easy to deal with.


The said thing is that the Black Hills 68gr (which uses this bullet) was the main reason I got into reloading. It was my rifle's favorite factory load and I wanted to reproduce it for cheaper. It was the first bullet I reloaded with and my rifle loved it. Switched to Nosler because of a sale and now switched back and it just sucks.
If you send them back to Midway and they replace them, I bet the next batch is spot on.

Anyway, good luck on your journey. From now on, I will measure every batch and any that vary will be sent back, life is too short to fight bad bullets.
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Old 10-02-2012, 7:57 AM
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You are assuming its the brass, why?

Whats your load data? Which primer? How much powder? Whats the neck tension? What is your charge weight spread? Whats your headspace and how far do you bump?

I load pulled components and can shoot sub 1"
I do not crimp. I seat to 2.245. I use crap pulled powder and crap pulled bullets (not resized) with resized machingun brass.

For me its headspace, charge weight and bullet jump distance that makes the bullet shoot small groups.

Last edited by problemchild; 10-02-2012 at 7:59 AM..
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
You are assuming its the brass, why?

Whats your load data? Which primer? How much powder? Whats the neck tension? What is your charge weight spread? Whats your headspace and how far do you bump?

I load pulled components and can shoot sub 1"
I do not crimp. I seat to 2.245. I use crap pulled powder and crap pulled bullets (not resized) with resized machingun brass.

For me its headspace, charge weight and bullet jump distance that makes the bullet shoot small groups.
I'm actually assuming its the bullets. But second would be brass aging (which I'm moving away from after using fresher brass).

The third possible culprit could be my trimming set up. I'm saying that because my Lee trimmer using the little guide rod/gauge trims down to 1.740", which I figured was fine. But this morning I'm doing brass prep on the 20 Hornady cases from yesterday. I'm treating this brass the way my wife would be treated for $500 at a spa. Anyway I was measuring case length and noticed as the case grow unevenly the trimmer only cuts what's over 1.754". So I'm now seeing mouths that have a 0.005"-0.01" variance from one side to the other.

I cleaned my FL sizing die last night, although it wasnt really dirty. I checked the headspace on each of these cases I sized this morning and all were at 0.001" above ANSI min.

To answer your question:
All the load data with components, weight spread are in the OP.
Neck tension is 0.003" and I apply a light crimp
My rifles headspace is about 0.03" above ANSI minimum.
I bump back to 0.001" above ANSI minimum

For my next range trip I'm loading the 20 hornady cases making 4 round batches, I'll be using 22.7gr of TAC for all which was the sweet spot in the past. I'm making:
4x regular crimped loads from two boxes of 68gr bullets I have. The problem box and a new one
4x no crimp for new box
4x crimped new box, using Varget. Picking previously tested sweet spot.
4x crimped using cheapo 55gr Winchester bulk bullets. If I can't keep this bullet around the 1-1.5 MOA mark it'll tell me it's my process.

Last edited by mroels; 10-02-2012 at 4:43 PM..
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Old 10-02-2012, 3:07 PM
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Also have you shot a ladder?

http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

http://kingfisher.0catch.com/guns/la...planation.html

http://www.mikeswillowlake.com/the_ladder_test.htm


I bump my shoulders back .003 past the avg. of 10 fired rounds from my gun. I use wc846 powder, cci-400 primers, lc brass, air- pulled projectiles 55gr (not resized). My load was developed by shooting in .2gr increments until one group shot very tight. I seat to 2.245 which is .010 back from my mag ID

Quote:
Originally Posted by mroels View Post
I'm actually assuming its the bullets. But second would be brass aging (which I'm moving away from after using fresher brass).

The third possible culprit could be my trimming set up. I'm saying that because my Lee trimmer using the little guide rod/gauge trims down to 1.740", which I figured was fine. But this morning I'm doing brass prep on the 20 Hornady cases from yesterday. I'm treating this brass the way my wife would be treated for $500 at a spa. Anyway I was measuring case length and noticed as the case grow unevenly the trimmer only cuts what's over 1.740". So I'm now seeing mouths that have a 0.005"-0.01" variance from one side to the other.

I cleaned my FL sizing die last night, although it wasnt really dirty. I checked the headspace on each of these cases I sized this morning and all were at 0.001" above ANSI min.

To answer your question:
All the load data with components, weight spread are in the OP.
Neck tension is 0.003" and I apply a light crimp
My rifles headspace is about 0.03" above ANSI minimum.
I bump back to 0.001" above ANSI minimum

For my next range trip I'm loading the 20 hornady cases making 4 round batches, I'll be using 22.7gr of TAC for all which was the sweet spot in the past. I'm making:
4x regular crimped loads from two boxes of 68gr bullets I have. The problem box and a new one
4x no crimp for new box
4x crimped new box, using Varget. Picking previously tested sweet spot.
4x crimped using cheapo 55gr Winchester bulk bullets. If I can't keep this bullet around the 1-1.5 MOA mark it'll tell me it's my process.

Last edited by problemchild; 10-02-2012 at 3:11 PM..
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Old 10-02-2012, 3:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
Also have you shot a ladder?

http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

http://kingfisher.0catch.com/guns/la...planation.html

http://www.mikeswillowlake.com/the_ladder_test.htm


I bump my shoulders back .003 past the avg. of 10 fired rounds from my gun. I use wc846 powder, cci-400 primers, lc brass, air- pulled projectiles 55gr (not resized). My load was developed by shooting in .2gr increments until one group shot very tight. I seat to 2.245 which is .010 back from my mag ID
I usually shoot for groups on separate targets the first outing when developing a new load. Then second outing I'll do a ladder test. However, in this instance the groups are so ridiculously large I didn't even bother with the ladder.

ETA: when I do a ladder test I do it at 200yds, so I see some overlap. Whenever I go to BLM land I try to redo a ladder test at 500yds

Overall we're doing about the same thing, I push back shoulders 0.001 less than you, my powder increments are at .3gr. Only my OAL is shorter than yours at 2.23.

For now I'm gonna focus on the 20 rounds for next Monday and load them to perfection. Then I'll decide what I think is really wrong. Of course trying to load today my digital scale started walking all over the place when I turned it on, so I have to find my beam scale.

Last edited by mroels; 10-02-2012 at 4:01 PM..
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Old 10-02-2012, 4:23 PM
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2 areas i see of possible error- headspace & crimp.

measure you fired brass (sampling of at least 10) bump your shoulder back .002-.003

you said your brass was trimmed 1.740- 1.753 --that's 13 thou difference (too much). if crimping-- it will differ way too much with different length brass. skipp the crimp.

unless you're using canalured bullets and same(exact) length brass.
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Old 10-02-2012, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billetmann View Post
2 areas i see of possible error- headspace & crimp.

measure you fired brass (sampling of at least 10) bump your shoulder back .002-.003

you said your brass was trimmed 1.740- 1.753 --that's 13 thou difference (too much). if crimping-- it will differ way too much with different length brass. skipp the crimp.

unless you're using canalured bullets and same(exact) length brass.
Typo on the brass trim length meant to put 1.754.

Shoulders are being bumped 0.002. I measured every single one today. I'm skipping crimp on one of my groups for next outing to see if that's it.

Not using canalured bullets, applying very light crimp with Lee fcd
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Old 10-02-2012, 6:54 PM
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I missed the crimp part. I don't think this is your problem (you know what I think the problem is) but in any case, you don't want to crimp with the LFCD with a bullet that doesn't have a cannelure. The collet will damage the bullet when applying the crimp and you won't be improving the neck tension.
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Old 10-02-2012, 7:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroels View Post

Not using canalured bullets, applying very light crimp with Lee fcd
If you aren't using cannalured bullets, then DON'T crimp them. There is absolutely NO reason to, Not even a light crimp.
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Old 10-02-2012, 7:19 PM
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I always thought the lfcd was supposed to be gtg for non canalured bullets. But I'll take y'all's word for it. Instead of doing one group without crimp for my next shoot I'll do one group with and the rest without. See if the one with is bad.


I'm frustrated with my stupid digital scale not working...this beam scale is taking too long. Makes me want to buy a chargemaster
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Old 10-02-2012, 7:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroels View Post
I'm frustrated with my stupid digital scale not working...this beam scale is taking too long. Makes me want to buy a chargemaster
I know exactly what you mean...
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Old 10-02-2012, 7:56 PM
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Have you thought about feed problems pushing the bullet back in the case?

.
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Old 10-02-2012, 8:53 PM
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Have you thought about feed problems pushing the bullet back in the case?

.
Yes, I extracted several rounds and measured. No issues.
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Old 10-03-2012, 1:26 PM
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Maybe it was the scale all along just being a bit different on every load or are you using a powder dumper like on a 650?

On a side note TAC shot like total crap out of my gun. I run wc846 pulled military powder for 89/8lbs free haz and free ship.
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Old 10-03-2012, 2:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huckberry668 View Post
Dude, it's your bullets! .2225" to .2235" diameters are too small and varied too much to shoot accurately.
I bet he's measuring the bullets with digital calipers and would not trust those numbers to be within more than +/- 0.0015" of correct.

Measure the bullets with a good slipper-clutch micrometer from a company like mitutoyo or starrett and I bet the diameters come out different.
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Old 10-03-2012, 2:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I bet he's measuring the bullets with digital calipers and would not trust those numbers to be within more than +/- 0.0015" of correct.

Measure the bullets with a good slipper-clutch micrometer from a company like mitutoyo or starrett and I bet the diameters come out different.
Indeed, I'm measuring with a cheapo digital. One of these days I'll invest in something better.
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Old 10-03-2012, 2:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
Maybe it was the scale all along just being a bit different on every load or are you using a powder dumper like on a 650?

On a side note TAC shot like total crap out of my gun. I run wc846 pulled military powder for 89/8lbs free haz and free ship.

Could've been the scale but I'm throwing through a Uniflow into the measuring pan and then weighing. With TAC my uniflow throws pretty dead on. Still really tempted to but a Chargemaster, Natchez has Em on sale. But we'll find out on Monday as I just finished loading using my 10-10.

My rifle likes TAC a lot, more so than Varget H335 H322, which are all the powders I've played with thus far.
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