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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 10-01-2012, 4:16 AM
OleCuss OleCuss is offline
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
Should I trot out the quote from Martin Niemöller?

You and Wrangler John say it has no effect on you- but it does affect others. You have to ask yourself, when does your solidarity with other gun owners begin and end? Are there lesser forms of the second amendment that I am not aware of?

I ask these things because whether or not it is intended, it seems to me that the attitude is pretty dismissive of fellow gun owners who are really concerned about how they will cope with the new prohibitions. I believe we all should feel empathy for all of our fellow Calgunners- rather than declare that it has no effect... Of course this has an effect and we should be wholly unified against this garbage. Or we may see a repeat performance when the legislature come for something that DOES affect you.
Exactly where did I indicate that I didn't care about the passage of the legislation or that I didn't oppose it?

The whole point of my post is that a statement that something won't change what I have to do and thus won't affect me is not a statement that one does not care.

I could turn this around and ask why people now being messed over by this legislation haven't been more upset about Gun Free School Zones? I've been dealing with a GFSZ for years now and it still isn't gone.

I've been dealing with the nuttiness of the RAW laws for a long time and no one is on the forum regularly complaining about how we've nutty the transport laws are. But I understand that there are other fish that are to be fried first and I don't spend my time complaining about that either.

So, welcome to my world. . .

And maybe I missed what Martin said. Sorry.

My point still remains. Not being significantly affected by a piece of legislation does not mean one does not oppose the legislation in either principle or fact.
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  #162  
Old 10-01-2012, 6:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What influence to YOU have on the calendars of the courts?

I keep reminding people - the appeals courts run on 'horse and buggy' time - your impatience is noted, but no one but the judges at the various levels has a say in that matter.
In the past 20 or years, more gun and drugs case have moved to federal courts. That has to affect the priority of civil cases.
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  #163  
Old 10-01-2012, 7:24 AM
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Originally Posted by YubaRiver View Post
Must be nice to be well off enough to not have to go dangerous places, bad *** enough that people don't threaten you, and blessed enough you don't have ex husbands or boyfriends stalking you or your daughters.
Yes, it is nice. What you describe are those life choices we make, those acts of individual forethought, discipline and prudence that result in our circumstances. Some lessons I learned early, one being that violence is always negative for both parties, and violence is usually precipitated by fear, or worse, by stupidity. Physical bravery I learned by breaking two year old horses, I survived trips crashing through barn doors hanging on to halter straps until I could pull the panicked colt over and quell his fear. That taught me to not create fear in the first place, but to work alone with a tranquil mind free of my own fear, to build confidence in a suspicious thousand pound animal with the power to trample or kill me in a fury of blurred motion. Those early bruises I earned through fearful bravado taught me wisdom.

I no longer fear anything physical. Then again, I no longer venture into confinement barns full of unbroken horses. We learn to avoid situations where needless violence, with or without malice, may occur. This is a choice. In my case I began befriending those youngsters in the pasture with offerings of treats and placing of hands on them. Within a couple of weeks I could halter them in an open pasture where they had the choice to run away or allow themselves to be haltered and led around. They were no longer fearful of me, I had become part of the herd, we played together. Today they call this horse whispering.

If we place our selves in clearly dangerous situations, filled with fear and doubt, there seems to be an unseen attraction for malevolence and violence.

I do not partake of alcohol, other than with a meal and only occasionally, or drugs, nor do I associate with those that do. I never venture into bars simply because I find people who frequent such places to be filled with fear, doubt and anxiety. Every time I had to enter a bar on a disorderly conduct call as a police officer, I was struck by the air of hopelessness and confusion that reigned among the patrons. For the most part, these are lonely people trapped in a miserable web of their own spinning. The rest are seeking something that will forever elude them in such places. I stay away from bad parts of town as much as possible.

As for family, there are no ex's in my life. Choice of a mate is of paramount importance. I chose a woman with similar values, rock solid in moral character. We have been married for 37 years. Marriage implies a commitment, a setting aside of individuality for a shared responsibility for each other. We worked together to improve our circumstances and now enjoy the freedom to make choices of where we live and whom we associate with. Not using care in this choice, in not making a lifetime commitment to each other by forgoing individual ego, is playing house, a sure path to future misery.

The most important lesson is that being armed, packing heat, is no substitute for making wise social choices. Anyone who believes that firearms bring immunity for making bad choices, for placing oneself in harm's way, is in serious error. Even if the need arises to apply deadly force for self protection, all that relief and joy of surviving will forever be tainted by looking into the attacker's dead dilated eyes as the pool of blood blossoms forth to become grist for future nightmares. I prefer to avoid that situation if at all possible, because I know what I am capable of and what duty demands.

Last edited by Wrangler John; 10-01-2012 at 7:26 AM..
  #164  
Old 10-01-2012, 7:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Wrangler John View Post
The most important lesson is that being armed, packing heat, is no substitute for making wise social choices. Anyone who believes that firearms bring immunity for making bad choices, for placing oneself in harm's way, is in serious error. Even if the need arises to apply deadly force for self protection, all that relief and joy of surviving will forever be tainted by looking into the attacker's dead dilated eyes as the pool of blood blossoms forth to become grist for future nightmares. I prefer to avoid that situation if at all possible, because I know what I am capable of and what duty demands.
Good Grief! I have run across some people in my life that are full of themselves before, but you are a super-power in that regard. Might I point out that graveyards, hospitals, and wheelchairs are full of citizens who achieved their status without making any of the "bad" choices you have managed to evade in your many years. How about the poor teens who were snuffed out by Eric Leonard, the "thrill killer"? They went to work in a pizza parlor for christs sakes.
  #165  
Old 10-01-2012, 8:03 AM
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I'm confused. I live in a small house in the city. My property is a completely fenced 1/4 acre. After we go to the range we normally clean our weapons outside on the porch on a small folding table set up just for that purpose. The porch is 3 feet high, the fence is 4 feet high so anyone walking down the street can see us cleaning guns. We don't get a lot of traffic because the house across the street is empty and we are at the end of a dead end road, but I'm sure someone has seen us cleaning a gun out there before.

Will this now be illegal? Again, my property is 100% fenced, including the driveway. I have electric gate openers to get in and out.

Can someone smarter than me sort out this new No Open Carry Law? Thanks.
  #166  
Old 10-01-2012, 8:49 AM
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Originally Posted by VintageDUG View Post
I'm confused. I live in a small house in the city. My property is a completely fenced 1/4 acre. After we go to the range we normally clean our weapons outside on the porch on a small folding table set up just for that purpose. The porch is 3 feet high, the fence is 4 feet high so anyone walking down the street can see us cleaning guns. We don't get a lot of traffic because the house across the street is empty and we are at the end of a dead end road, but I'm sure someone has seen us cleaning a gun out there before.

Will this now be illegal? Again, my property is 100% fenced, including the driveway. I have electric gate openers to get in and out.

Can someone smarter than me sort out this new No Open Carry Law? Thanks.
Hello VintageDUG:

As you describe your gun cleaning scenario, it is still legal.

Please open this attachment:
Attached Files
File Type: doc Strider v. People, fenced yards.doc (35.0 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by markm; 10-01-2012 at 9:49 AM.. Reason: clarification.
  #167  
Old 10-01-2012, 8:49 AM
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Originally Posted by VintageDUG View Post
I'm confused. I live in a small house in the city. My property is a completely fenced 1/4 acre. After we go to the range we normally clean our weapons outside on the porch on a small folding table set up just for that purpose. The porch is 3 feet high, the fence is 4 feet high so anyone walking down the street can see us cleaning guns. We don't get a lot of traffic because the house across the street is empty and we are at the end of a dead end road, but I'm sure someone has seen us cleaning a gun out there before.

Will this now be illegal? Again, my property is 100% fenced, including the driveway. I have electric gate openers to get in and out.

Can someone smarter than me sort out this new No Open Carry Law? Thanks.
I think you're OK legally. Since you will be within a fenced area of your property you meet the private property exemption of AB 1527. As I understand it, outside a fenced area is a gray zone based on prior case law in CA as such areas are sometimes considered "public space."

Whether it's a good idea to clean your guns in public view is another matter which would depend on who your neighbors are and what sort of traffic might happen by your house.
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  #168  
Old 10-01-2012, 9:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
Good Grief! I have run across some people in my life that are full of themselves before, but you are a super-power in that regard. Might I point out that graveyards, hospitals, and wheelchairs are full of citizens who achieved their status without making any of the "bad" choices you have managed to evade in your many years. How about the poor teens who were snuffed out by Eric Leonard, the "thrill killer"? They went to work in a pizza parlor for christs sakes.
Teenagers are not allowed to carry firearms for self defense and employers usually disallow firearms for protection. Leonard would not have been effected by your scenario, he selected a gun-free zone deliberately. Criminals always will exist. Statistically there will always be a proportion of people who are victimized by criminals or fall prey to "bad" decisions (hence the need for personal discipline). Under Progressive Democratic Party control California has lost the ability to effectively deal with crime and punishment, that is the overriding problem.

You misunderstand my comments, I believe in people carrying weapons for self defense. My preference would be for Arizona's scheme of Constitutional carry.

My comments were directed at those who seem to have knee jerk reactions to life in general, and the passage of AB 1527 particularly. AB 1527 changes little if anything of relevance to self-defense. This does not mean I agree with AB 1527, I oppose it and will back efforts to overturn it and California's entire gun control scheme, even from out of state should I move.

If anyone thinks that they are protected by openly carrying an unloaded long gun, other than for use as a club, they are mistaken. Walking down a sidewalk any passerby with a knife could slash the bearer's throat and take the weapon so quickly that witnesses wouldn't be able to tell what exactly they witnessed. I was taught that a suspect with a knife within 27 feet either drops the knife or is fired upon immediately. Use of a weapon is determined by time and distance, carrying an unloaded firearm is worthless, and even with a loaded concealed handgun chances of being successful are related to reaction time and training. The delay in recognizing a threat and overcoming the reluctance to shoot is the major factor. A long gun in a close quarters situation is not the ideal weapon, it is cumbersome and easily deflected, or taken from dead hands after being knifed or shot unexpectedly by the perpetrator. Those are the facts of life.

Even armed, the best course is to avoid needless exposure to risk. Insults and name calling are never reasons to engage in argument, to do so usually goes badly. If confronted the best course is to walk away, back down, retreat, calm the situation, and only if threatened with violence draw and fire. One never should draw or expose the weapon if it isn't going to be used immediately. The concept that packing a handgun or slinging a M-4 carbine over the shoulder makes one invulnerable is false, everything hinges on situational awareness, trained reflexes and a bit of luck.

My intention of providing a brief history of what I learned about life was offered as an example of my personal journey, it was not meant to disparage the life course of others. We each must deal with life as best we can, yet our way is made lighter by following a path of sobriety and respect for ourselves and others. This is non-negotiable as is the law of physics.
  #169  
Old 10-01-2012, 9:33 AM
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So, I have a long black trenchcoat... There is no law AGAINST concealing an AR from anything I've been able to find... Am I missing something?


(And before anyone says anything, no, I am by no means stupid enough to do this. )
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Last edited by sharxbyte; 10-01-2012 at 9:37 AM..
  #170  
Old 10-01-2012, 9:41 AM
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So, I have a long black trenchcoat... There is no law AGAINST concealing an AR from anything I've been able to find... Am I missing something?
try sitting down and see how concealed it is...also the law specifically states it must be in a closed case...doesn't it?

My issue is that NOW in California there is NO WAY to legally "BEAR" a functional firearm without a CWP...So our "Inalieable Right" has been legislated away, (how do you even legislate away an Inalieable Right?), and been substituted with a "State Permit"?

ANYONE THAT THINKS WE ARE WINNING IS ON DRUGS...

The only winners are the Lawyers who perpetuate the system to support themselves.

Today there is more Honor among Thieves than those in Government.
  #171  
Old 10-01-2012, 9:47 AM
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duh! we've been telling people this. no one will listen.



oh really. he wants to raise taxes again. despises prop 13, hasn't been 2a friendly at all. signed high speed rail even though people don't want it anymore. the state is completely borke. he is beholden to unions. where is the positive with him.
Hey Chris,

I agree with you completely!

Many CalGunners are suffering with cognative dissonence. This disorder requires phsychological counseling. That said, CalGuns is a GOOD ORGANIZATION!

The lawyers involved in defending 2A and 4A are probably good people; however, they do make more money the longer these cases linger.

With neo-Marxist Brown signing the illegal Driver's License law, our state's anti U.S. Constitutional policies are going to continue (illegals now have a legal pathway to register to vote online).

The politics of tribilism is not compatable with civil liberties.

Many CalGunners are vested in public-sector union-tribilism. We have a political war pitting the productive class verses the entitled class--the entitled class has won the war.

For every judicial win CalGuns gets for us, the ruling class will pass another bill that curtails the right; they don't care about your civil liberties as they only care about collective rights.

I am sorry for being so cynical; the truth hurts.

markm

Last edited by markm; 10-01-2012 at 9:52 AM.. Reason: typo
  #172  
Old 10-01-2012, 9:54 AM
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Defeatist attitudes get us no where. Are you French?
Hey now.
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  #173  
Old 10-01-2012, 9:58 AM
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I can understand the cynicism. And I didn't vote for JB or any Democrat so I'll not take the blame for what they are doing.

Flip side is that there was a reasonable argument to be made in 2010 that JB was better than was Meg Whitman. I rejected the idea, but that doesn't mean it was unreasonable to hold that opinion.

What is more, it is possible that Meg Whitman would have been worse for us in the short-term. We'll never know because she spent a lot of money in pursuit of a loss.

I don't think there is anyone on this forum who now believes Jerry Brown is a staunch fellow traveler on the road to the proper exercise of our RKBA. That said, you could argue that he still might be the best governor on firearms in over a decade. You could argue that he is better than was Reagan!

I think JB is an utter disaster for our state on everything but firearms and the National Guard. He has done some good stuff for the NG although maybe not enough, and he is a bit of a disaster on the RKBA as well - but not an utter disaster.

And so far as where litigation is going at this time? I know very well that it looks disastrous at this time, but does anyone remember the George Wallace days?
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  #174  
Old 10-01-2012, 10:08 AM
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I can understand the cynicism. And I didn't vote for JB or any Democrat so I'll not take the blame for what they are doing.

Flip side is that there was a reasonable argument to be made in 2010 that JB was better than was Meg Whitman. I rejected the idea, but that doesn't mean it was unreasonable to hold that opinion.

What is more, it is possible that Meg Whitman would have been worse for us in the short-term. We'll never know because she spent a lot of money in pursuit of a loss.

I don't think there is anyone on this forum who now believes Jerry Brown is a staunch fellow traveler on the road to the proper exercise of our RKBA. That said, you could argue that he still might be the best governor on firearms in over a decade. You could argue that he is better than was Reagan!

I think JB is an utter disaster for our state on everything but firearms and the National Guard. He has done some good stuff for the NG although maybe not enough, and he is a bit of a disaster on the RKBA as well - but not an utter disaster.

And so far as where litigation is going at this time? I know very well that it looks disastrous at this time, but does anyone remember the George Wallace days?
Hello OleCuss,

I am very thankfull that you did not vote neo-Marxist.

A RINO running our government is always better than a neo-Marxist! Our state is now run by public sector unions. The SEIU, et allia, is guarding the public's purse-strings. Brown=SEIU.

We have a state of, by, and for, the public-sector bargaining unit--nothing more and nothing less. A LEO bargaining unit is scared of citizens having guns, so the legislature bans the guns! Of, By, and For the LEO bargaining unit.

FDR (he was president a few years back) was dead-set against public sector uions becuase he knew they would ruin our country. He was right! California is his paradigm.

markm, the cynical one.

Last edited by markm; 10-01-2012 at 10:12 AM.. Reason: typo
  #175  
Old 10-01-2012, 10:42 AM
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as i understand the law, you may not just walk down the street, in public, carrying a rifle, shotgun, carbine or any other long gun IN THE OPEN...

when going to the range, hunting, or to and from a LEGAL firearm centered activity remove the bolt, open the action and put a lock in the receiver, remove the uppers, REMOVE THE MAG AND PUT IN A LOCK THRU THE RECEIVER... do what ever it takes it to render the firearms unusable as a firearm, and put into a LOCKED CASE IN THE TRUNK or the rear of the vehicle AND COVER IT UP...

the only choice until such laws are challenged IN COURT and defeated, is compliance... or jail...
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Last edited by donw; 10-01-2012 at 10:56 AM..
  #176  
Old 10-01-2012, 10:59 AM
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so with all of our rights being shut down. what is to stop us from forming a militia and hunt "bad guys" and "those trying to remove our constitutional rights"? this may seem like a smart Alec response but I'm illegitimately questioning. If the government(federal/state/local) has to sanction a militia how is the militia going to stop the Tyrannical rule of Government?
  #177  
Old 10-01-2012, 11:19 AM
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so with all of our rights being shut down. what is to stop us from forming a militia and hunt "bad guys" and "those trying to remove our constitutional rights"? this may seem like a smart Alec response but I'm illegitimately questioning. If the government(federal/state/local) has to sanction a militia how is the militia going to stop the Tyrannical rule of Government?
Perhaps an example of what I've said and wondered before...

Do we really think that the early days of forming of our governments and laws didn't allow the Gov an "out" in all of these issues? While we are all trying to stay ahead of our rights, let's not forget that the Gov wrote in a few things to protect theirs as well.

Convenient really, seeing as how the Gov has the key to the cell.

A.W.D.
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  #178  
Old 10-01-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by donw View Post
when going to the range, hunting, or to and from a LEGAL firearm centered activity remove the bolt, open the action and put a lock in the receiver, remove the uppers, REMOVE THE MAG AND PUT IN A LOCK THRU THE RECEIVER... do what ever it takes it to render the firearms unusable as a firearm, and put into a LOCKED CASE IN THE TRUNK or the rear of the vehicle AND COVER IT UP...
Such locks have no value in the legal transport of firearms. If that's how you want to transport them, not illegal, either.
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  #179  
Old 10-01-2012, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by calixt0 View Post
so with all of our rights being shut down. what is to stop us from forming a militia and hunt "bad guys" and "those trying to remove our constitutional rights"? this may seem like a smart Alec response but I'm illegitimately questioning. If the government(federal/state/local) has to sanction a militia how is the militia going to stop the Tyrannical rule of Government?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Perhaps an example of what I've said and wondered before...

Do we really think that the early days of forming of our governments and laws didn't allow the Gov an "out" in all of these issues? While we are all trying to stay ahead of our rights, let's not forget that the Gov wrote in a few things to protect theirs as well.

Convenient really, seeing as how the Gov has the key to the cell.

A.W.D.
As I stated earlier, our Government doesn't follow the "Rules" governing their conduct and regularly suspend the "Rules" of the Senate and Assembly..What if we hold them to their "Rules"..."The law that governs them"?

Better yet...what if we all just suspend the rules for ourselves whenever it suits us?

1) There needs to be accountability and penalty to those in elected office, ( other than the ballot box).

2) Any law passed has NO EXCEPTIONS...If it is a good law it should stand for EVERYONE. NO LE EXCLUSIONS...LE are NOT a Preferred class of citizen. This violates teh 14th Amendment.

3) LIMIT each legislator to 3 pieces of legislation in each session and eliminate "Gut and Ammend".

4) Any Legislator Authoring, Co-Authoring or supporting or voting for Unconstitutional Legislation will see one piece of legislation eliminated from the calendar for the session.

5) ALL LEGISLATION MUST comport to the first paragraph of the Constitution of the State of California...
Quote:
"ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS


SECTION 1. All people are by nature free and independent and have
inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and
liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing
and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy.
Today Legislators made it IMPOSSIBLE to DEFEND LIFE, PROTECT PROPERTY and OBTAIN SAFETY, as they have made EVERY TOOL OF SELF DEFENSE illegal or the use of unlawful.

Even an old man's cane has been characterized as a stick or staff by DA's and CA's throughout CA and been defined a weapon by today's crazy thinking.

Even the EPA has re-defined a linear foot as a quoare foot under the RRP code.
  #180  
Old 10-01-2012, 12:10 PM
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Ok so how does one start a militia? Can one start a militia... We are clearly getting into the realm of Tyranny.

edit never mind I found my answer we can't because the state and government says we can't.

Last edited by calixt0; 10-01-2012 at 12:24 PM..
  #181  
Old 10-01-2012, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
Good Grief! I have run across some people in my life that are full of themselves before, but you are a super-power in that regard. Might I point out that graveyards, hospitals, and wheelchairs are full of citizens who achieved their status without making any of the "bad" choices you have managed to evade in your many years. How about the poor teens who were snuffed out by Eric Leonard, the "thrill killer"? They went to work in a pizza parlor for christs sakes.

Yes but Wrangler John makes valid points statistically.

My lifestyle - symphonies and steakhouses - is far more conducive to my safety than, say, the alternative of fast food joints and rap concerts.

You do have *some* control over the degree and extent of dealing with problem people, and minimizing where you have to encounter them is a good start.
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Last edited by bwiese; 10-01-2012 at 12:19 PM..
  #182  
Old 10-01-2012, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
And so far as where litigation is going at this time? I know very well that it looks disastrous at this time, but does anyone remember the George Wallace days?
Indeed, but remember those fighting for equality at the time had the President on their side; remember also that it was Republicans at the state level that made things happen along with the President.

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  #183  
Old 10-01-2012, 2:02 PM
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Yes but Wrangler John makes valid points statistically.

My lifestyle - symphonies and steakhouses - is far more conducive to my safety than, say, the alternative of fast food joints and rap concerts.

You do have *some* control over the degree and extent of dealing with problem people, and minimizing where you have to encounter them is a good start.
That perception of control is a fickle thing. We are so used to a relatively stable society in this country that even anomalies like the LA Riots and the Katrina aftermath don't shake our illusion of safety.

In peaceful, orderly times I would say yes, for many people carrying a functional firearm is probably not going to be needed. But the Second amendment wasn't ratified because the founders believed it would be necessary in orderly, peaceful times where the government still saw its role as a guardian of liberty. It was created in case the opposite became true in it's many possible forms.
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  #184  
Old 10-01-2012, 2:22 PM
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I do very little to reduce my risk. I live in a decent neighborhood where my collection of firearms is certainly smaller than that of others. I don't use drugs, alcohol, etc. For me a party means a "star party" where alcohol is generally avoided because it messes up the vision everyone treasures. It kind of goes on like that.

But I still got my carry license because I think it is our duty to defend ourselves against evil. I don't obsess over it if I cannot carry someplace, but I'm generally predisposed not to go to such places if I have a choice - I don't like to patronize businesses who don't like the RKBA.

Net effect is that I like a lifestyle which generally doesn't entail too much risk of a violent confrontation. Don't get me wrong, I willingly went to Afghanistan and got my combat badge there - but that was duty and I have no duty at this time to go to a place where a violent encounter is likely.

The interesting thing is that if I'm carrying, I try even harder to avoid confrontation. It is not a matter of fear, it is that one of the things I really don't want to do is to shoot someone - good things do not come from that.

So if I successfully avoid confrontation I won't have to shoot anyone and it is a happy circumstance that they likely won't shoot or beat on me, either.

I think most people are sorta like me. You give them a gun and they will be more careful about what they do and how they act and will tend to decrease the risk of confrontation.

It is sort of like the old saying that, "An armed society is a polite society", but with a twist. The adage assumes that everyone is polite because they don't get shot that way. I think it is more a matter of your normal citizen not wanting to shoot anyone so they tend to be more polite and less egotistical so they don't get into a situation where they'd have to shoot someone.

But however you look at it, I think we have a duty (when reasonable) to provide for our own defense against those who would harm us. To do otherwise is to let the evil triumph.

Pick up your handgun, put down your ego, let's be productive.
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  #185  
Old 10-01-2012, 2:44 PM
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The interesting thing is that if I'm carrying, I try even harder to avoid confrontation. It is not a matter of fear, it is that one of the things I really don't want to do is to shoot someone - good things do not come from that.

So if I successfully avoid confrontation I won't have to shoot anyone and it is a happy circumstance that they likely won't shoot or beat on me, either.

I think most people are sorta like me. You give them a gun and they will be more careful about what they do and how they act and will tend to decrease the risk of confrontation.
This resonates completely with me. This has been my MO and viewpoint for the 25 or so years that I have been licensed to carry in various states.

The long gun carry ban isn't bothersome to me because I ever anticipate carrying a long arm. It's a solution to a non-existent problem and it's outrageous, because it is a move driven by pure ideology that opposes and denies a fundamental, enumerated , incorporated civil right.

The truth is, if society were to deteriorate sufficiently, no gun law (with the exception of confiscation) will prevent us from doing whatever may be necessary to keep ourselves and families alive, .
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Last edited by Maestro Pistolero; 10-01-2012 at 4:48 PM..
  #186  
Old 10-01-2012, 6:29 PM
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Ok, then we certainly are not loosing.
We aren't tightening either.
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Last edited by Bruce; 10-01-2012 at 6:39 PM..
  #187  
Old 10-01-2012, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by erik_26 View Post
I am not LEO bashing. With very few exceptions the overwhelming majority of LEOs at some point and time have broken the law. Could be a minor moving violation (speeding in their POVs), tinted windows, something small. By all means, I am not accusing them of being thugs or accusing them of gross negligence. Just saying no one is perfect. I know I am not. I have many flaws have rough edges.

I just find it appalling that some country Sheriffs (whom aren't perfect themselves) don't trust the very citizens that voted them into office with a LTC.
I'm not LEO bashing either, I have friends and family in LE. That doesn't stop me from chastising them for holding people to a standard that they exempt themselves from. Whether it's speeding or CCing, "do as I say, not as I do" is no basis for a free society.
  #188  
Old 10-01-2012, 10:47 PM
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Pardon my language, but I'm so goddamn tired of these corrupt, fear mongering, career politicians stomping on my rights and burning my home to the ground. I know this may help CCW, but my RKBA will not be denied by some corporate whore. I've not been serious in my efforts, but we are at a fork in the road and I fear failure could mean the end of our 2A rights
  #189  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:58 AM
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I don't post much anymore but I just read the whole thing twice and found this one liner. Someone care to explain it?

(g)**As used in Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive, “firearm” includes
the unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be readily converted
to the functional condition of a finished frame or receiver.
SEC. 5.5. Section 16520 of the Penal Code is amended.....
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  #190  
Old 10-02-2012, 1:20 AM
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Originally Posted by m24armorer View Post
I don't post much anymore but I just read the whole thing twice and found this one liner. Someone care to explain it?

(g)**As used in Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive, “firearm” includes
the unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be readily converted
to the functional condition of a finished frame or receiver.
SEC. 5.5. Section 16520 of the Penal Code is amended.....
That's an existing part of 16520; it wasn't added by Portantino's bill. (That did put in a new (d)(6), which forced a re-numbering of the parts after.)

It means, of course, that things like stripped lowers are 'firearms' - not especially controversial, since that's how those are treated under Federal law and other places in CA law.
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  #191  
Old 10-02-2012, 1:49 AM
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Granted, stripped lowers are firearms. But the "unfinished" and "readily converted" language gets me. Does this address so called 80% receivers and AK flats etc.
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Last edited by m24armorer; 10-02-2012 at 1:52 AM..
  #192  
Old 10-02-2012, 1:52 AM
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Default What Cali just did.

Seems to me that the UOC issue only became an issue when large groups of UOCers were getting together in public and making politically unpopular and politically incorrect political statements by the wearing of unloaded arms.

Now that long guns are also banned, does this mean the 1st amendment just took a hit.

Since we just banned open carry, how about banning open flag burning except if it is done in a "sealed container"

I mean after all, the push for banning open carry had to do with LIBTARDS being offended.

As an American, I am offended when our flag is burnt.

Nicki
  #193  
Old 10-02-2012, 2:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m24armorer View Post
I don't post much anymore but I just read the whole thing twice and found this one liner. Someone care to explain it?

(g)**As used in Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive, “firearm” includes
the unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be readily converted
to the functional condition of a finished frame or receiver.
SEC. 5.5. Section 16520 of the Penal Code is amended.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
That's an existing part of 16520; it wasn't added by Portantino's bill. (That did put in a new (d)(6), which forced a re-numbering of the parts after.)

It means, of course, that things like stripped lowers are 'firearms' - not especially controversial, since that's how those are treated under Federal law and other places in CA law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m24armorer View Post
Granted, stripped lowers are firearms. But the "unfinished" and "readily converted" language gets me. Does this address so called 80% receivers and AK flats etc.
Note that PC 29010 to 29150 applies to manufacturing. I think what it is saying is that manufacturers of bare receivers and frames need to be licensed by the state, not just producers of finished firearms.
  #194  
Old 10-02-2012, 4:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Wrangler John View Post
Yes, it is nice. What you describe are those life choices we make, those acts of individual forethought, discipline and prudence that result in our circumstances. Some lessons I learned early, one being that violence is always negative for both parties, and violence is usually precipitated by fear, or worse, by stupidity. Physical bravery I learned by breaking two year old horses, I survived trips crashing through barn doors hanging on to halter straps until I could pull the panicked colt over and quell his fear. That taught me to not create fear in the first place, but to work alone with a tranquil mind free of my own fear, to build confidence in a suspicious thousand pound animal with the power to trample or kill me in a fury of blurred motion. Those early bruises I earned through fearful bravado taught me wisdom.

I no longer fear anything physical. Then again, I no longer venture into confinement barns full of unbroken horses. We learn to avoid situations where needless violence, with or without malice, may occur. This is a choice. In my case I began befriending those youngsters in the pasture with offerings of treats and placing of hands on them. Within a couple of weeks I could halter them in an open pasture where they had the choice to run away or allow themselves to be haltered and led around. They were no longer fearful of me, I had become part of the herd, we played together. Today they call this horse whispering.

If we place our selves in clearly dangerous situations, filled with fear and doubt, there seems to be an unseen attraction for malevolence and violence.

I do not partake of alcohol, other than with a meal and only occasionally, or drugs, nor do I associate with those that do. I never venture into bars simply because I find people who frequent such places to be filled with fear, doubt and anxiety. Every time I had to enter a bar on a disorderly conduct call as a police officer, I was struck by the air of hopelessness and confusion that reigned among the patrons. For the most part, these are lonely people trapped in a miserable web of their own spinning. The rest are seeking something that will forever elude them in such places. I stay away from bad parts of town as much as possible.

As for family, there are no ex's in my life. Choice of a mate is of paramount importance. I chose a woman with similar values, rock solid in moral character. We have been married for 37 years. Marriage implies a commitment, a setting aside of individuality for a shared responsibility for each other. We worked together to improve our circumstances and now enjoy the freedom to make choices of where we live and whom we associate with. Not using care in this choice, in not making a lifetime commitment to each other by forgoing individual ego, is playing house, a sure path to future misery.

The most important lesson is that being armed, packing heat, is no substitute for making wise social choices. Anyone who believes that firearms bring immunity for making bad choices, for placing oneself in harm's way, is in serious error. Even if the need arises to apply deadly force for self protection, all that relief and joy of surviving will forever be tainted by looking into the attacker's dead dilated eyes as the pool of blood blossoms forth to become grist for future nightmares. I prefer to avoid that situation if at all possible, because I know what I am capable of and what duty demands.
I think a lot of what you said is very true. I find it interesting when you said "If we place our selves in clearly dangerous situations, filled with fear and doubt, there seems to be an unseen attraction for malevolence and violence."

I say this because you say you were a police officer. And by deciding to be a police officer you placed yourself "in clearly dangerous situations...unseen attraction for malevolence and violence" every single day on the job.

And you also put yourself in the company of drug abusers, alcoholics, murderers, etc. when you chose that profession. Perhaps you were more optimistic then, thinking you could help to create a positive impact and change people's lives, the pay and benefits were good, etc.

In any case, it seems to me like you broke your own rule, or do I detect that if you had to do it all over again, you would not have been a police officer?

I like to take a broader perspective when I look at people. I think we all have our tests and challenges, and we all have a breaking point. You may not know it yet, but your biggest test might still be ahead. Life has it's way of testing everyone. When you think you have it all figured out, Life throws a curve ball, and before you know it, you are somewhere you never thought you'd be...like a lonely bar, drinking a beer.
  #195  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:40 AM
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Thread reported by multiple people... pretty much done for now.

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  #196  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:40 AM
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Thread reported by multiple people... pretty much done for now.

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