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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 10-01-2012, 2:59 PM
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Another great read for articulating the truth with coworkers and non shooters

.......

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Should President Obama win in November, it’s a certainty he’ll try once again to ban lead ammunition. Just two months after he moved into the White House, the National Park Service suddenly announced it was banning lead bullets from its parks. The blowback from sportsmen was intense, so the agency backed down. Mr. Obama surely will exert “more flexibility” in a second term to accomplish this backdoor assault on the Second Amendment.
Link to full article
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/20...ts-under-fire/
Please do not post whole articles - see http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=363956

We are still in the "one (short) paragraph and a link is low-risk." mode, despite appropriate legal action against the major risk provider. Righthaven is not the only offender…

See the stickies http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=394912

// Librarian
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Old 10-01-2012, 4:01 PM
OleCuss OleCuss is offline
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As an add-on?

Have any of you ever heard of someone being hit by a lead bullet and actually worrying about lead poisoning?

Do you know how many people have been shot and had the bullet left in for literally decades and never had lead poisoning? If lead poisoning from bullets were a real issue, these folk would have been in huge trouble - rather than leading productive lives.
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Old 10-01-2012, 4:13 PM
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Good read. Personally, I don't care too much for hunting, nor would I ever shoot cast-lead ammo out of my own gun, but it's good to know what's a legit argument and what is just propaganda from the other side.

AFAIK, lead saturation is more of a problem for shooting ranges with a much larger volume of fire confined to a relatively small area, rather than open areas where you won't have people dumping 20rd shell drums trying to hit a single duck
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Old 10-01-2012, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonkingAntelope View Post
Good read. Personally, I don't care too much for hunting, nor would I ever shoot cast-lead ammo out of my own gun, but it's good to know what's a legit argument and what is just propaganda from the other side.

AFAIK, lead saturation is more of a problem for shooting ranges with a much larger volume of fire confined to a relatively small area, rather than open areas where you won't have people dumping 20rd shell drums trying to hit a single duck
What is lead saturation? Is that anything like leaching?

Last edited by Gabadost; 10-01-2012 at 5:55 PM..
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Old 10-01-2012, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonkingAntelope View Post
Good read. Personally, I don't care too much for hunting, nor would I ever shoot cast-lead ammo out of my own gun, but it's good to know what's a legit argument and what is just propaganda from the other side.

AFAIK, lead saturation is more of a problem for shooting ranges with a much larger volume of fire confined to a relatively small area, rather than open areas where you won't have people dumping 20rd shell drums trying to hit a single duck
Cast lead is easier on your barrel by far. You should try it.

Do you have any proof of what you are saying ie. saturation? Even a link?
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Old 10-01-2012, 5:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Gabadost View Post
What is lead saturation? Is that anything like leeching?
I just meant the accumulation of lead in the ground when you have a lot of people shooting every day in the same place and direction, and it, after a number of years, leaching where it's not supposed to.

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Originally Posted by YubaRiver View Post
Cast lead is easier on your barrel by far. You should try it.
Maybe I will get around to it some day. I do know that all indoor ranges have heavy-duty ventilation to minimize lead exposure (and yes, I know that primers contribute to that as well), and you don't want to shoot too much unjacketed stuff through barrels with a gas port e.g. AR-15 with drop-in conversion kits.
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Old 10-01-2012, 5:53 PM
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[QUOTE=HonkingAntelope;9434576]I just meant the accumulation of lead in the ground when you have a lot of people shooting every day in the same place and direction, and it, after a number of years, leaching where it's not supposed to.


A quote from the article: "The lead that is used in ammunition is metallic lead and is a very inert material that does not dissolve in water and it is not absorbed by plants or animals,” Dr. Saba explained. “There is a tremendous toxicity difference between the highly inert metallic lead used in ammunition and the highly toxic lead compounds used in legacy leaded paints.”

I'm not buying the saturation/ leaching theory.
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Old 10-01-2012, 6:03 PM
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This is very similar to mercury. It is extremely dangerous when it is organified. Elemental mercury is safe enough that kids often played with it.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:22 AM
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[QUOTE=HonkingAntelope;9434576]I just meant the accumulation of lead in the ground when you have a lot of people shooting every day in the same place and direction, and it, after a number of years, leaching where it's not supposed to.[QUOTE]

I ask again, do you have any source for instances where this has happened?
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:08 PM
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[QUOTE=YubaRiver;9439069][QUOTE=HonkingAntelope;9434576]I just meant the accumulation of lead in the ground when you have a lot of people shooting every day in the same place and direction, and it, after a number of years, leaching where it's not supposed to.
Quote:

I ask again, do you have any source for instances where this has happened?
For metallic lead to "leach" it must be exposed to certain amounts of acid.

In nature, certain areas have rocks that contain sulpher. When rain water and air interact with the sulpher, it creates a slightly acid runoff. This runoff can interact with metals like copper and lead and "leach" them into the acidic water.

The place you see this most is in the actual metal mines themselves. It is almost never seen in areas like shooting ranges, because the sulpher containing rocks aren't found normally in shooting ranges, unless your shooting range happens to be located in a copper or lead mine.
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Old 10-02-2012, 1:58 PM
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I've been wanting to go find a spot on BLM/NF land to use as a regular shooting range, but had been concerned about pumping hundreds of rounds of lead into the ground. It's great to know that the lead in bullets isn't the same as the toxic lead in paint... based on the laws in CA you would never know. I feel much more comfortable roaming around in the wilderness with my lead ammo now, especially if I run into a ranger who criticizes me for harming the environment (despite cleaning up brass and targets). Thanks for the informative thread
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Old 10-02-2012, 2:15 PM
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I fully agree that metallic lead in the environment generally just isn't a problem due to ammo.

One further exception I'd like to make? Please don't shoot trees. Some day someone may have to take a saw to the thing and bullets and saws don't coexist all that well.

But then, I'd much rather have my saw hit a lead bullet than a stainless steel one.
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Old 10-02-2012, 2:42 PM
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So if they ban a naturally occurring element such as lead, does that mean no lead at all or do they need to be jacketed? Also, if there is no lead at all, what about solid copper? I thought those were a no-no in a handgun since those would be considered armor piercing.

What if what if what if........
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