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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

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Old 10-08-2012, 12:29 AM
GM_77 GM_77 is offline
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Upon arriving, I expected the targets to be up and training to start promptly. Not the case on either day.
I've taken many courses that were arranged through Paul and Chen. I am just a paying customer but I always try to help setup the range when stuff arrives. I help because I know they can't get into the range early and they can't leave targets up overnight. I get the feeling they really push the limits of the range people sometimes to get what we get. So I think that is out of Paul or Chen's hands and the only thing that can be done to speed things up is help.

also noticed a group of paparazzi to be taking pictures
I saw the one guy setting up cameras and I later learned it was for a pilot for a Korean TV show. I didn't find it distracting but I wish I knew earlier because I would have taken a picture with him even though I don't know the actor at all haha. The other camera was Ted Tae I think. If that was Ted then as far as I'm concerned he can take pictures whenever and wherever he wants, much respect for that dude. You can check out some of his work here. I didn't notice any more other than a few people taking personal photos. Also this time around it didn't seem like there were any Contractors/MIL guys but you can request at the beginning of the class to not get your picture taken if your workplace does not allow it. That might be something you can keep in mind the next time you encounter a situation like that.

Lastly I had expected some kind of certificate of completion
As a civilian I don't need a certificate for anything, I've been asked what classes I've taken but never asked for a certificate yet. I think LEO sometimes need certificates for their records so if you are an LEO I'm sure Kyle/Paul could help you out.

I just don't understand the role Alias played in the training. I think Kyle could cut out the middle man and just train.
I believe Paul is responsible for bringing this high caliber training out here. I believe Paul said that people thought he was nuts trying to setup classes in California, but here we are and great classes being held in SoCal and NorCal as well (Hackathorn, Vickers, Defoor, Northern Red, McPhee, McNamara etc..). Chen is the contact for SoCal and he sets up the range and equipment and everything. I don't think they are middle men in anyway and each have a part in the logistics. If Kyle were to just train I have a feeling there would be 0 open enrollment and even if there was, the cost would be the same except you would have a plane ticket and two days of travel to add to your current expenses.

Anyway I hope that info helps,

Last edited by GM_77; 10-08-2012 at 1:01 AM..
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:19 AM
uscmCorps uscmCorps is offline
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Aside from Chen, I know a few other range hosts in other parts of the country that have setup classes for several traveling instructors and institutions. It's a thankless job and by the end of the class, you generally break even. It's not a money making endeavor. Additionally there is a certain degree of stress involved ensuring that range coordination is squared away, getting students to sign up, doing head counts, arranging target materials, barricades, picking up and chauffeuring the instructor etc. Stuff that is generally transparent to the student. Range hosts do it because they want to bring quality instruction to your area. People like Paul and range hosts like Chen deal with a lot of the logistical setup that instructors don't have the time/inclination to do. It's because of them we're able to have out of state instructors come into CA with the regularity that we have seen in recent years. Without people like them we wouldn't see the likes of Kyle Defoor, Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Shrek etc out here. So to simply state that they're middle men with negligible roles shows how little their work behind the scenes is understood and appreciated.

Out of the dozens of classes I have attended in CA and out of state, I have never arrived at a class where things are 100% GTG from the on start. Students setting up targets is common. It's also common for students to pick up brass at the end of the day, but you didn't see us spending an hour or more at the end of the class doing that. And if the students didn't help out, who exactly is going to do that? Is Chen expected to have a crew of unpaid helpers to do all of it? Do it all himself? Is Kyle? Regardless, the timeline for the curriculum will shift as needed. There have been plenty of times in which instructors have wanted to squeeze in there just a little more curriculum into the end of the day and we have well outstayed out welcome with the range staff. Do you know who has to deal with that? The range host. Not us.

Regarding the "paparazzi" there were essentially two elements there. The first being a minimal camera crew of two people taking pics of a single individual (the Korean actor) and unfortunately, being unfamiliar with a live range took a little wrangling. This isn't the norm for these classes. As for the second element, Ted Tae, he's a well regarded in-theater photographer and will from time to time shoot promotional material for these classes as a break from doing them in a war torn country in the middle east. As far as I'm concerned, he can do whatever he wants on the range and he has never in my experience been intrusive to the instruction of the class.
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Old 11-27-2012, 9:27 AM
Jack's Smirking Revenge Jack's Smirking Revenge is offline
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Originally Posted by Red Light Max View Post
Wow, I had no idea how passionate people were about posting an AAR. Since Ram nailed the AAR, there is no need to keep posting about the contents of the course. I am curios though if anyone else thought the same about the course as I did. With the transition from Grey Group to Alias, I expected more. Upon arriving, I expected the targets to be up and training to start promptly. Not the case on either day. I also noticed a group of paparazzi to be taking pictures. I found this to be extremely annoying. This is an advance training class, not an event for picture taking. Lastly I had expected some kind of certificate of completion. From my perspective Alias Training Group acted only as a financial broker between the students and Kyle. I am fine with the price and have no complaints about the instruction from Kyle. I just don't understand the role Alias played in the training. I think Kyle could cut out the middle man and just train. I have taken numerous courses from various instructors throughout the state and across the country. I must say Kyle has a unique way of instructing and can not be compared to anyone. I thoroughly enjoyed both days. It is apparent Kyle does not need to teach civilians like myself and could do just fine in private contracting work. I thank you Kyle for taking time out of your busy schedule and allow the feeders to train with you.

I have taken many classes from numerous instructors. In my experience it has been pretty standard for students to help with the range set up/take down.

I thought the class was great and it was one of the best I have taken. I really liked Kyle's barricade techniques, one-handed drills, and focus on accurate shooting at distance. I also found the cadence drills to be extremely beneficial and I thought the mindset lecture was worth the tuition cost alone.

I was also really amused that the guy from ADE and his partner thought the class wasn't tactical enough.

I look forward to seeing the Trainer of Feeders return to SoCal.
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