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Ladies Forum A place for our female Calgunners to discuss, share and interact without the 'excess attention' sometimes found in online forums.

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  #1  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:13 AM
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Default Ladies, I think I handled this badly....

This morning I went out to breakfast with some friends and I was carrying. No biggie. My friends know I have a CCW and nobody cares and most of them have them too. We all got out of our cars and headed in the restaurant and one of the guys with us was behind me. He is generally an *** and I don't usually go anywhere that he is because I just don't like him or his attitude but anyway... As we walk in, he is behind me and he grabs my shirt and yanks it up and says "You packin' today?" and exposes my Sig. My first reaction was to slam my fist backwards and hit him in the nuts so I did. I then yanked my shirt over my gun and turned to him and told him that if he ever pulled that **** again he would find himself doubled over for a different reason. I then told my friends that I would not be joining them for breakfast or any other thing that involved that person and I left.

One of my friends sent me a text saying that she thinks I overreacted and I should just expect people to do that to me if they know I am carrying. WTF? I have friends that carry and never have I thought to expose them in public. It's nobody's business and unless they are printing or exposing then no one mentions it.

Did I handle it correctly? Who knows. Did he deserve to get hit in the nuts? Yes. Hopefully he will think twice the next time he tries to be funny.
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:19 AM
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Some people are clueless jerks.

I probably would not have handled it the same. But, I am pretty low key. I won't say you were wrong, could have taught him to not touch other peoples clothing which he shouldn't be doing anyway. Would he pull up a women's shirt to see what might be hiding underneath?

Just, rude......
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:22 AM
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LOL I am a woman. I reacted before I actually thought about it because all I knew was someone was grabbing my clothes and it could have been a stranger. Why would someone even do that other than just being stupid?
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  #4  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:24 AM
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maybe your friend thought he just asked the questions and didn't know he exposed your gun. You should tell her that if you wanted people to see it, you wouldn't carry it concealed, and explain what could happen to you if a cop saw that happen.

also, now's a good time to tell her you just generally don't like the douche bag and didn't want to hang out with him anyways.


oh, and stop telling people you carry.
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  #5  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:26 AM
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I'm not a lady, (obviously) but I have an opinion. (obviously)

#1. Let's take the SIG out of the picture for a second. Is it appropriate for a man to lift up a woman's shirt in public? Hell no! He should have gotten hit in the nuts just for that alone.

#2 You have a CONCEALED carry permit. There are reasons for that, legal and otherwise. The most important to me being...OPSEC. I do not want a potential threat to know that I have a weapon. It takes time to draw a weapon, especially from a concealed carry position. I need the element of surprise to achieve that.

Did you over-react? Maybe a little. But only about a 1 or 2 on a scale of 10.
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:28 AM
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I don't tell people I carry. I have a CCW, my friends have CCW's and none of us(save this idiot) ever talk about it. It's not like "You carryin? I'm carryin. She carryin? We're all carryin!" It's not even a topic of conversation. I don't know what his intention was and I don't care but I am guessing he will think twice about doing that again.
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:37 AM
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I would think that his action would be considered simple assault, and you could get him charged with it. And, maybe your reaction would be considered self-defense.

If you are really concerned, consult an attorney. On the other hand, keep going to breakfast and hitting him in the nuts. He will eventually get the picture.
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:50 AM
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I think his attempt was to be funny and it doesnt seem malicious. I would have punched him in the nose or mouth though, hitting people in the balls just hurts... in the face sends a pretty clear message.

From your post I can tell that this guy is obviously an inmature jerk, and I can see that you really dont appreciate his company. I dont think you overreacted but seeing how the right to carry is a privilege and can be taken away at any second is not something many people understand. I think you should talk to him about it and maybe educate the moron.

Its taken me months but I am finally getting through to some of my liberal/unenlightened friends. Its worth the effort
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:54 AM
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A couple of my friends tried to explain to him after the fact, that concealed means CONCEALED and that exposing it could cause problems for both the permit holder and people in public who don't understand that some people can legally carry concealed. He didn't get it. "I was just joking around" Ummm, you're over 40 and you act like a teenager. Grow up!
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  #10  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:58 AM
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I don't think you over reacted at all. I would have likely grabbed his package and told him that he would be minus them is he ever acted like that again. The only people who have gotten away with that type of behavior without consequences were my step-kids...who I had neglected to properly instruct.

I agree that the bottom line is that it is never appropriate to lift another person's clothing, regardless of gender, without their consent

I think the person who texted you wasn't aware of the whole situation and deserves to hear you side...not in a defensive way, but in a explanatory/educational way.
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  #11  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugguts View Post
LOL I am a woman. I reacted before I actually thought about it because all I knew was someone was grabbing my clothes and it could have been a stranger. Why would someone even do that other than just being stupid?
Sorry

Yes, he deserved it.
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:23 AM
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Sorry

Yes, he deserved it.
LOL No problem.
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:31 AM
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you were in the right. i would personally love it if a woman did that to me. but i'm not packing that kind of heat...

All joking aside, nobody should touch you like that without consent. if he is not willing to respect peoples boundaries then he should be ready to accept the consequences of his actions.-he got off lucky and you didn't overreact. like others said, even if you didn't have the gun, he still shouldn't be touching you or lifting your shirt. if my sister told me some dude did that to her, you better believe our entire family would be on him asap.

if your friends say you overreacted, then you need new friends.
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  #14  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:33 AM
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Well, I'm not a lady by any stretch of imagination. With that said, I don't think you overreacted. I would've handled it differently (made fun of him for being stupid, and repeated that until he didn't want to be anywhere I would be), but different people handle stupidity differently. And there's no question for me here - the guy is plain stupid, and has the sense of humor of a doorknob.
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  #15  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:34 AM
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Bug, I don't blame you and I agree with Irish -- the guy deserved what he got from you. You're supposed to have an edge over the BGs and with you being exposed, wtf, right???

If I had a fork, I would have stabbed him - lol
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  #16  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:37 AM
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I am a guy. You did just fine. Now get a restraining order on him, before he tweaks the story to save face and makes YOU look bad.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:38 PM
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Since this is now on a public forum, I think you have some issues to concern yourself with...whether "we" think what you did was justified/correct is really of little consequence (for the record I don't think you over reacted but am concerned with the outcome), you may want to look at this from a different lense.

In your description, you seem to have known (prior to the incident) that the person behind you was this guy and he was the person who pulled up your shirt before you swung at him. You mention that you have a previous history with this person and do not like him, which seems to have entered into the response to hit him...had it been a friend, I doubt you would have hit that person. I also doubt they would have done that but it simply shows that your actions may have been influenced by your feelings toward him.

That said, you assaulted this guy and then threatened him (some might argue that you were referring to shooting him next time).

So you have to ask yourself if he was in the act of committing battery and you were defending yourself...and can this be proved in a court of law. You did state he was being "funny" so you are saying on an open forum that this was some type of joke...which may make it harder to prove battery. Maybe you were trying to protect your side arm? Possibly but again on this forum it doesnt mention that. There seem to be a number of witnesses and how would they react when questioned...it doesn't seem, based on the text message you got that your one friend wouldn't necessarily be in agreement with your actions.

Hopefully the guy has learned his lesson and this is the end of the story but sometimes a man's ego is easily bruised and this is not the end. Just make sure your butt is covered and I would refrain from posting things like this on the internet as they can/do get used against people.

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Old 10-10-2012, 12:48 PM
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You handled it correctly. He deserved a nutshot.

Although it would have been unjustified, if some cops had observed that, you would have at least had to go through the bother of having them check your gun, run the serial, verify your ltc all the while having everyone in the restaurant wonder what kind of criminal your are
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  #19  
Old 10-10-2012, 12:48 PM
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No, I said he was trying to be funny. I didn't say he was funny. He may have thought he was being funny but messing with someone's sidearm is not a joking matter. As for the assault on him, yes, I did hit him. In self defense training, if you are grabbed from behind, you are taught to go for soft spots. I don't have a previous history, I know him by acquaintance and his behavior in the past has shown him to be stupid, unthinking and careless so yes, I do not like him and I try not to be around him.

I highly doubt that he will be pressing charges considering our 5 other friends witnessed it and did not think it was funny or appropriate but I do understand the implications. But no one should ever pull up anyone's clothing, be it man or woman or reach for their concealed weapon and to do so would indicate poor judgement and/or attempted assault.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:58 PM
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As far as I'm concerned, he was the agressor as soon as he touched you or your clothing without permission. What you did was defensive.

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Old 10-10-2012, 1:08 PM
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So sorry that this happened to you Bugs!

How crazy do you really have to be, to walk up behind someone you think is carrying, and GRAB at them? That's just plain nuts, if not suicidal.

I might have reacted differently, I generally defend myself with my voice before I raise my hands. But I will raise my hands. And I wouldn't criticize you at all.

If a LEO had gotten involved, I would have asked "Deputy, how would you react if someone walked up behind you and grabbed your gun?". I think you would have one sympathetic officer at that point.

And as everyone has said, don't be where he is, if you see him, just walk away without a word and go home. That will make a real statement with your friends. It's not fair that you are deprived because he comes to these things, but you don't get to be angry when you're carrying.
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  #22  
Old 10-10-2012, 1:36 PM
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Agree with most of the responses already posted. If he is 40+ and has no clue about respecting other people, then he has no excuse. With an abrupt and unannounced invasion like yanking up your shirt (not counting the exposing of your sidearm), he got off light with a nutshot.

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Originally Posted by BonnieB
How crazy do you really have to be, to walk up behind someone you think is carrying, and GRAB at them? That's just plain nuts, if not suicidal.
You don't have to be crazy. One just has to be socially inept. . . which based on Buggut's description, this guy is fitting the bill to the T. Unfortunately I have run across a couple of people like this, and there is no cure.
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Old 10-10-2012, 1:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bugguts View Post
This morning I went out to breakfast with some friends and I was carrying. No biggie. My friends know I have a CCW and nobody cares and most of them have them too. We all got out of our cars and headed in the restaurant and one of the guys with us was behind me. He is generally an *** and I don't usually go anywhere that he is because I just don't like him or his attitude but anyway... As we walk in, he is behind me and he grabs my shirt and yanks it up and says "You packin' today?" and exposes my Sig. My first reaction was to slam my fist backwards and hit him in the nuts so I did. I then yanked my shirt over my gun and turned to him and told him that if he ever pulled that **** again he would find himself doubled over for a different reason. I then told my friends that I would not be joining them for breakfast or any other thing that involved that person and I left.

One of my friends sent me a text saying that she thinks I overreacted and I should just expect people to do that to me if they know I am carrying. WTF? I have friends that carry and never have I thought to expose them in public. It's nobody's business and unless they are printing or exposing then no one mentions it.

Did I handle it correctly? Who knows. Did he deserve to get hit in the nuts? Yes. Hopefully he will think twice the next time he tries to be funny.

You handled that quite mercifully. Anyone who reaches for my carry weapon WILL have a broken arm for their trouble, and I can't promise they'll have full use of their wrist again either.

If someone is reaching for your weapon you cannot afford to stand around and consider their motivations. A lot of cops and security officers aren't around anymore because someone lifted their carry gun from its holster and shot them with their own gun-or went on to shoot others with it. Consider that Law Enforcement carries in holsters with retention straps and belt loops, so when you have an IWB holster that's not actively retaining the gun one must be doubly observant for being disarmed. The only thing worse than being shot with your own weapon is knowing others are getting slaughtered with it.


As such, any movement to expose your weapon MUST be treated as a potential disarm attempt and managed accordingly.This brings me to the topic of social management and CCW.

When you carry, there are certain categories of people you simply can't afford to associate with anymore. When you don't carry hanging around an ignorant troublemaker isn't a big deal. When you carry a gun and the ignorant troublemaker knows you're armed, they'll be that much more emboldened to start trouble because hey, their friends got a Sig 9mm. They can call the big bad bouncer whatever name they want now, cause their friends' armed and got their back right?

For obvious reasons you cannot afford that kind of foolishness. I used to go to the club while armed. I didn't drink and its legal in my state to patron a bar armed as long as I'm not drunk or intoxicated, so i'd do my thing on the dance floor sober . (its a good way to test if your manual safety's got what it takes for field usage!)

That stopped immediatly once random girls hugged me and detected the gun.....and then their drunk and loud friends would yell "HE'S GOT A GUN!!!OMG LETMESEELEMMESEEIT!!!". Talk about awkward silences.


Another friend asks me repetitively if im armed. My response to her inquiry is always "maybe so, maybe no".

Once a girl I took for a date got pissed I wasn't volunteering to be her sugar daddy, so she thought tossing a false brandishing charge would be a better revenge tactic than the old standby of keying my car. I learned a lot more than I wanted to about state laws regarding CCW after that incident.

Now I vet my friends like the Secret Service. Bladed hugs, no discussion on RKBA or the 2nd Amendment, and no one except for 3 people in my group know I carry. I can't dictate what you should do in your social circle, but in your shoes I wouldn't tell anyone you carry .At all. Knowledge is power, and as you sadly discovered most people cannot be trusted with the knowledge you are legally armed.

Final note-change your position of carry next time you see those people. Your social clique knows where you keep your weapon now, and that's bad news if someone else decides to pull a repeat prank in the future. Or heaven forbid someone blows a fuse and thinks your gun is a great way to go out in a blaze of glory.
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Old 10-10-2012, 1:58 PM
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That guy deserves a punch in the dick. What an ***.
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Old 10-10-2012, 1:59 PM
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Sounds like he's got a crush and hasn't developed past the sandbox.
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Old 10-10-2012, 2:05 PM
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To the OP

It's time for Men to start being Men again and send clear, unmistakable messages that certain things WILL NOT be tolerated. When it comes to guns, and the carrying of them, there is ZERO tolerance to "foolin' around" or "goofin' off" or whatever you wanna call it.

Good call on steering clear of the guy too, there is no benefit you in keeping company with fools.
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Old 10-10-2012, 2:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
To the OP

It's time for Men to start being Men again and send clear, unmistakable messages that certain things WILL NOT be tolerated. When it comes to guns, and the carrying of them, there is ZERO tolerance to "foolin' around" or "goofin' off" or whatever you wanna call it.

Good call on steering clear of the guy too, there is no benefit you in keeping company with fools.
You're of course right about zero tolerance, but I wonder, is it time for the WOMEN to become MEN too? No thanks, not me.

You do know that Bugs is a woman, and one to be reckoned with?

But again, you are RIGHT about zero tolerance of idiots.

I'll kick 'em all in the shins with my Manolo gladiators...
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Old 10-10-2012, 2:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieB View Post
You're of course right about zero tolerance, but I wonder, is it time for the WOMEN to become MEN too? No thanks, not me.

You do know that Bugs is a woman, and one to be reckoned with?

But again, you are RIGHT about zero tolerance of idiots.

I'll kick 'em all in the shins with my Manolo gladiators...
Oops.....my mistake......read the OP as a man asking what the ladies thought.

It's been one of those days. And the non-gender specific screen names dont help either.

But yes....my other statements still stand. Zero tolerance such childish behavior! Good job!
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Old 10-10-2012, 2:53 PM
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Male here. If my wife did that to some jerk, I would stand up and applaud. In no way do I see that to be an over-reaction. Stupidity deserves an appropriate (and preferably painful) response.
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Old 10-10-2012, 4:48 PM
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OP don't be to hard on yourself. He's a jerk for doing that, he could have caused you unnecessary trouble. You know what he actually deserves a double flying kick to the solar plexus and a body slam to the ground. What a selfish, manipulative bastard!
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Old 10-10-2012, 5:36 PM
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Bug, I wouldn't beat yourself up much over your reaction. While I would have done things a bit different, my feelings would have been absolutely like yours. I would have also left immediately to avoid conflict or questions by any other patron that could have resulted from his idiotic actions.

If your friends tried to explain to him what he did wrong and he didn't get it, I would avoid his presence from this point forward. If he shows up, I would not stick around. Some people just don't have a brain and this is the last person I would want to be around while concealing a weapon. He will possibly call you out again. If your friends don't get this, find new friends.

Concealed means just that "concealed". This is all putting aside the fact that this man lifted your shirt up in public. Just that alone should make him stop and take pause about his stupid and unwelcomed joke. Kind of like jerking his pants down in public. You just don't do it unless you are an immature 10 year old. Certainly if he can't see that, he won't understand the concept of you exposing your firearm in public and the possibility that you could find yourself losing your license to carry. This isn't a game and should not be treated lightly. Refuse to be in his company again.
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  #32  
Old 10-10-2012, 6:41 PM
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I asked the wife who carries every place she goes. We call it a dog and ask if you have your dog? We also have a word to alert each of us. For instance if we say lemonade we both seperate and look for what set the other off. Just some background.

Wife seems to think you reacted without thought which makes your actions OK in her book. If you chose to hit him in the junk as a choice of action you may have over reacted.

I can only say some older boys never make it to manhood. No touching is appreciated unless mutual understanding.

My two cents are good job. I would have loved to hear the converstaion at lunch though.

SORRY I didn't see it was a ladies forum.

Last edited by Manolito; 10-10-2012 at 6:46 PM..
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  #33  
Old 10-10-2012, 6:51 PM
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A man grabbed your shirt and forcibly pulled it up. Then, even though you were carrying a gun, you showed restraint by only using a fist to put a halt to the assault. No, you did not over react.
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  #34  
Old 10-10-2012, 6:55 PM
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imo, he's lucky to not be in jail....assault pure and simple by a very stupid man that could now be dead.

apparently these "friends" do not appreciate what CCW means. they don't deserve your friendship or presence at events.
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  #35  
Old 10-10-2012, 7:45 PM
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Even coming from the viewpoint of a man, I feel that the purpose of wearing clothing is to cover things that you don't want seen in public, whether that be parts of your body, or firearms, or whatever.

If someone (man or woman) violates that privacy, then you should definitely be justified in doing anything it takes to get them to stop. That's the whole basis of self defense. Stopping an assault on your body as quickly as possible.

If your friend thinks that you should expect to have your concealed firearm exposed when carrying, I might not associate myself with them ever again. That's an idiotic and dangerous line of thinking. And "he was just joking around," is never an excuse for assault or bullying.
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Old 10-10-2012, 9:45 PM
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I consider it a successful retention of a firearm. The clown is lucky to keep the hand, and the nuts.

Good job OP.
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  #37  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:03 PM
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Bug, that wasn't a man, it was a 40 year old child. :thumbup:

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Old 10-10-2012, 10:07 PM
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Handled well, but only half-way. Second half is to distance yourself from retarded people for your own safety.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolito View Post
I asked the wife who carries every place she goes. We call it a dog and ask if you have your dog? We also have a word to alert each of us. For instance if we say lemonade we both seperate and look for what set the other off. Just some background.

Wife seems to think you reacted without thought which makes your actions OK in her book. If you chose to hit him in the junk as a choice of action you may have over reacted.

I can only say some older boys never make it to manhood. No touching is appreciated unless mutual understanding.

My two cents are good job. I would have loved to hear the converstaion at lunch though.

SORRY I didn't see it was a ladies forum.
Manolo, don't worry. Grown up men, real men, are always welcome here and we value their opinions. And invite your bride, on my behalf, to post here too. Her input would be very welcome.

I think you both are very wise to have a code word for "the dog", and an alert word as well. Great idea, and I'll put it into use.
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Last edited by BonnieB; 10-10-2012 at 10:47 PM..
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  #40  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:19 PM
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Bugs - I think you did the right thing. God help the person that grabs my shirt and exposes my gun especially someone I don't like. That is one big no-no in my book. I go to great pains not to expose my gun accidently much less on purpose. I hope he is still walking funny. Concealed means concealed.
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