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  #1  
Old 09-21-2012, 11:40 PM
-me -me is offline
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Default Critical review and problems of the UTAS UTS-15

Let me start out by saying that this isn't a range report (yet). I haven't had the time to take it out. On the bright side, if there's something in particular you want me to test, or pay attention too - Now is a good time to ask. This also isn't a thread to needlessly bash the shotgun, no one cares if you think it's ugly. I'm writing this because I haven't been able to find a detailed opinion/review of the UTS.

What this is - Just a quick review of my thoughts after taking it home and cleaning it. I'm probably leaving a lot out, give me any advice or criticism you want.


UTS-15 failures:
You can pull the trigger and discharge the hammer before the bolt is locked into battery. I called UTAS on this, they very nicely told me this wasn't a problem since basically the hammer and bolt are not lined up for a strike on the firing pin. Therefore, since it's "safe", it's ok. To fix it you'll have to cycle the action again. Watch what your stepping on, those shells are live.
Sorry, but I consider this a serious design flaw.
Neither the Mossberg 590 or Remington 870 will discharge the hammer until the bolt is locked.
After taking the gun apart and thinking about it, I find myself doubting what UTAS said. The gun is a little hard to get to lock, although it does seem to be getting easier. You could therefore, hold the bolt forward in the "almost locked" position and pull the trigger. I'll let you know how that one turns out...

If you cycle the action slowly you will have a FTE. This failure occured while cycling the action with live shells, and is caused by the new shell coming down on the old one and holding it there with spring pressurre from above. I haven't tested this at the range while firing, so this could change due to the increased flexibility of a spent shell over an unspent one. The jamb is very easy to clear though, and I have yet to test this on other pump shotguns.


UTS-15 shortcomings:
For those that care, it's a little nose heavy.

After looking at this and the Kel Tec KSG 15, I think the UTS might be faster and easier to load. However, the KSG is probably faster to top off. The reason being is that if you're only topping a mag tube off on the UTS you will need to push the first two shells back behind the keeper before you can start adding new rounds (after opening the port cover).

The cheek weld sucks. It's impossible to get your face low enough to really sight down the barrel. It needs sights, likely some high ones. I'll be borrowing some BUIS from my AR to test this out.

For a whole myriad of reasons I don't want to get into at the moment, it looks more like a working prototype that should be used to refine the gun. It looks fine from the outside, but when taking it apart I just can't help but think they could have figured out much better ways to put it together.

And if someone would please tell my idiot self how to load a pic in between text, I would greatly appreciate it.

-Keith
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  #2  
Old 09-22-2012, 8:57 AM
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One thing I alway thought was cool about theses new shotguns with two magazine tubes is the fact you can have different rounds in each tube. Slugs in tube one and 00 buck in tube two.

Does it seem easy to switch between tubes on the fly? If you want to change rounds, can you fire the 00 and switch to the slugs tube before you cycle the weapon?
Those are really the only questions I have.

Thanks for the post, I look forward to updates.
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  #3  
Old 09-22-2012, 1:28 PM
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Yes you can switch between tubes at any time, but it is a little stiff. There are three positions for the selector switch. Left, right, and middle. Putting the selector in the middle automatically feeds from each tube alternately. First cycle feeds from the left, second cycle feeds from the right, etc. Placing the switch to the left or right though and it will only feed from one side until you manually switch it over - even if you run out of ammo in the tube you're feeding from.

The selector switch is also one of those annoying details that make the gun feel unfinished. Pushing the selector to the right causes the gun to feed from the left, and vice versa. Does anyone know if the KSG does this also?

I've attached two pics below. First is one with the selector switch circled in red, second is inside the receiver showing the internals of the switch.
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  #4  
Old 09-22-2012, 2:02 PM
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Thanks for the info. I was waiting for someone to post thoughts about the UTS-15.

The whole dual magazine bullpup concept is appealing. But I think I'll wait for some refinements to be made to both the KSG and the UTS. I'm actually hoping someone like Benelli or Mossberg comes out with a dual magazine semi-auto bullpup design now that Kel-Tec and UTAS have opened the door.
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  #5  
Old 09-22-2012, 2:52 PM
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You're welcome, hope you find the info useful.
I agree, I would jump on a dual mag bullpup Benelli or Mossberg in a second.

So far, I don't see any real issues with the UTS-15 other than the hammer discharging early. I refuse to forgive that. My intended purpose is for it to be an awesome range toy, and I think it will fulfill that just fine.

I've handled the KSG for a few minutes in a store recently. It feels more refined than the UTS to me.

Last edited by -me; 09-22-2012 at 2:58 PM..
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  #6  
Old 09-22-2012, 5:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -me View Post
Yes you can switch between tubes at any time, but it is a little stiff. There are three positions for the selector switch. Left, right, and middle. Putting the selector in the middle automatically feeds from each tube alternately. First cycle feeds from the left, second cycle feeds from the right, etc. Placing the switch to the left or right though and it will only feed from one side until you manually switch it over - even if you run out of ammo in the tube you're feeding from.
Holy cow, that essentially makes this a 15 round pump shotgun. Any California legal issues with that? I have no idea. I know there was a lot of handwaving about the KSG holding 15 rounds, but it seemed to calm down when folks realized there were two discrete seven round magazines that had to be selected to be used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -me View Post
The selector switch is also one of those annoying details that make the gun feel unfinished. Pushing the selector to the right causes the gun to feed from the left, and vice versa. Does anyone know if the KSG does this also?
KSG does it the more intuitive way: selector to the right, use right tube; selector to the left, use left tube. Selector in the middle, it won't load from either tube.

BTW, inline images are easy. The problem is, the URI between the IMG tags has to be an actual image file (ends with .JPG or .PNG or .GIF). When you load attachments on Calguns, instead of linking to the actual image file it links to a pointer to an image file and that doesn't work with the IMG tags.

So if you want to use inline images, upload the images to a image hosting site like imgur.
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  #7  
Old 09-22-2012, 7:36 PM
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Thanks for the schooling on the inline images, and the info on the KSG. I really want to get my hands on a KSG, those things are sweet.

From what I've found, the CA DOJ has officially taken a non-committed stance. They won't comment on whether they think it's legal or not, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...highlight=utas

If it ever does become an issue my dad (lives in Texas) will be getting a nice present.
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  #8  
Old 09-30-2012, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -me View Post
Yes you can switch between tubes at any time, but it is a little stiff. There are three positions for the selector switch. Left, right, and middle. Putting the selector in the middle automatically feeds from each tube alternately. First cycle feeds from the left, second cycle feeds from the right, etc. Placing the switch to the left or right though and it will only feed from one side until you manually switch it over - even if you run out of ammo in the tube you're feeding from.

The selector switch is also one of those annoying details that make the gun feel unfinished. Pushing the selector to the right causes the gun to feed from the left, and vice versa. Does anyone know if the KSG does this also?

I've attached two pics below. First is one with the selector switch circled in red, second is inside the receiver showing the internals of the switch.
Awesome man, thanks for the info and the pics.

I read the other posts, I was under the impression that auto switching is a big no no. However if the ATF has taken no position... I would be a bit worried. They may decide one day in the near future that its illegal and confiscate them.
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  #9  
Old 09-30-2012, 6:48 AM
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One thing I would like to see tested is how it handles short rounds. Like 1 3/4" shells or some 1.5" shells. With the double tubes you should be able to fit like 18 rounds in it lol
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  #10  
Old 09-30-2012, 9:50 AM
TheHammerOfTruth TheHammerOfTruth is offline
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"Holy cow, that essentially makes this a 15 round pump shotgun. Any California legal issues with that? I have no idea. I know there was a lot of handwaving about the KSG holding 15 rounds, but it seemed to calm down when folks realized there were two discrete seven round magazines that had to be selected to be used."
Yes, CA has a serious problem with this shotgun, that is why you dont see it available all over the place.
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  #11  
Old 09-30-2012, 1:37 PM
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remember seeing this at the del mar gun show a while back not too far away from the atf guys if thats worth anything.

from the state's perspective, it may be smarter to take an uncommitted stance on this for now. seeing as how many of ca's laws are already dubious at best, i imagine it would be smarter for them to leave this alone until it either caused some big problems or it very clearly violated a law.
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Old 09-30-2012, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguinofsleep View Post
remember seeing this at the del mar gun show a while back not too far away from the atf guys if thats worth anything.
ATF doesn't care about lame California firearms laws.
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  #13  
Old 09-30-2012, 5:53 PM
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Interesting review, Thanks!

It would be fun to have one of these for fun factor! I don't know, however, why anyone would want one to put in a defense role... Heavy, complex training to operate effectively (not that that stopped anybody), reliability (time, use tested) etc.

I think if other than strictly military use, one is better off getting good training with an 870 or 500. But I'm not a gamer or young suburbia/internet commando, just a realist.

Like I said, it would be fun as a range toy but I'd rather spend my money on a toy that a range would allow
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Old 12-11-2012, 5:45 AM
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Default Factory Sights

Does this gun ship from the factory with sights or are they an option? If you go to their web site and look at the catalogs, it appears that the sights are included but the details on their web sight are lacking.
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  #15  
Old 12-11-2012, 9:52 AM
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What's not to like?

-hanko
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  #16  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:42 AM
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Yeah I think I am with the others on these... awesome range toy! But reloads take a little bit of wrangling I believe. I assume it would be pretty hard to do a 4 shell weak hand reload quickly.

Id love to see a 30 shell race between one of these and a slick traditional pump with a 10 shell capacity... first to discharge all 30 shells, start empty.
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  #17  
Old 12-14-2012, 9:48 AM
Harrison_Bergeron Harrison_Bergeron is offline
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Decent vid of the UTS-15, I've only made it 5 minutes in though.

Silly me I thought I might have scooped CGN, but I did search first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_o3YsUVAyQ
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  #18  
Old 12-14-2012, 12:00 PM
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this is very different from the TNP review ( the nutnfancy project ) but u guys may want to chk that one out too


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Old 12-14-2012, 7:30 PM
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On TNP's video the UTS-15 malfunctioned a lot. Hickok45 had better luck with the UTS-15 except for aluminum shells and he couldn't get high brass to load 7+7. Hickock45 preferred the KSG. Keep in mind TNP is quite a bit rougher on his testing than Hickok45.
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2012, 8:50 PM
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I believe the legal issue is more than 10 rounds on a centerfire weapon (i.e. which is why a .22LR with a 10+ round tube mag is okay....it is rimfire and not centerfire).

The KSG is fine as you must flip a switch to get to your other 7-round magazine. It is essentially two separate magazines.

The issue with the UTS is that, when the switch is in the middle, you can empty both magazines without touching anything. Obviously this is more than 10 rounds.

I, too, am curious to see if Rem/Mbg come up with a better, more reliable design. And hopefully they will think of California when they their plans and make it like the KSG.
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