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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

View Poll Results: What would you do?
Keep the stock barrel, buy ____ ammo instead (please list) 13 65.00%
Buy a Lilja drop-in barrel 5 25.00%
Stop shooting, buy bacon instead 2 10.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03-21-2017, 8:17 AM
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Default CZ 455 PT .22lr

Let's say you own a CZ455 PT with 16.5" barrel and you want to put 5-10 shots in one tiny hole at 100 yards;

Would you keep the stock barrel and continue trying different types of ammo until you find the one that works best?

I've only tried CCI copper head and Remington Golden Bullets. I haven't tried my Federal Auto Match or Winchester stuff since I figured it'll group worse. Have over 10k rounds of each but I figured it's cheap plinking ammo and wouldn't group well.

I've got Wolf Match on order but in the meantime I've been contemplating trying a different barrel. I could just order other types of match ammo and continue stockpiling.

What say you Calguns?!
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Old 03-21-2017, 9:37 AM
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I'd say try better ammo, so far as I'm aware the cci copper is ok at best over even short ranges, GB's and AM are plinking grade at best.

Try CCI sv and go from there, whatever you use one tiny hole at 100yds is quite a feat, a good rest, good optics and good conditions will also play a huge role.


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Old 03-21-2017, 9:39 AM
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A lilja barrel will offer greater accuracy but ammo plays the bigger part. Get a box of match eley.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:21 AM
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Subsonic ammo. When supersonic bullets go subsonic, they pattern like a shotgun.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gityerkneedahn View Post
I'd say try better ammo, so far as I'm aware the cci copper is ok at best over even short ranges, GB's and AM are plinking grade at best.

Try CCI sv and go from there, whatever you use one tiny hole at 100yds is quite a feat, a good rest, good optics and good conditions will also play a huge role.


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Bolt guns are easier to shoot; I shoot tiny holes with AR's. I just want to be utilize the 455 the way it's supposed to; to be able to shoot often while maintaining the basic principles of precision shooting (all while being much more affordable).

My schedule doesn't allow me to travel much to shoot long distances.

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Originally Posted by Holding Name 1 View Post
A lilja barrel will offer greater accuracy but ammo plays the bigger part. Get a box of match eley.
I was going to order some Eley Tenex and that's when I was recommended Wolf Match. Apparently it's the same as the SK match ammunition. Wondering what other match grade stuff is available out there.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:27 AM
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Over on rimfire central they have monthly 100yd challenge in the cz forum, worth a look, you'll get an idea of different set-ups, ammo used etc... some friendly knowledgeable peeps over there.


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Old 03-21-2017, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gityerkneedahn View Post
Over on rimfire central they have monthly 100yd challenge in the cz forum, worth a look, you'll get an idea of different set-ups, ammo used etc... some friendly knowledgeable peeps over there.


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Haven't thought about that, thanks!
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:28 AM
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Keep the goal do-able and you'll be happier. My goal in 50-yard benchrest is to put 5-10 shots in "one tiny hole." At a hundred yards I've never seen that done even with a $10K custom bench rifle with a one-piece rest... at least not outdoors. Remember you're dealing with a subsonic, 40gr, solid lead projectile that the slightest breeze will take off course. At 50 yards, with my 27.1" bbl Anschutz 2013BR-50, a 5 mph wind will move my impact point 1/4".

This will be a fun build. Shoot for better-than-MOA at 100. At 50, it'll be tight!
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceGirlsHusband View Post
Keep the goal do-able and you'll be happier. My goal in 50-yard benchrest is to put 5-10 shots in "one tiny hole." At a hundred yards I've never seen that done even with a $10K custom bench rifle with a one-piece rest... at least not outdoors. Remember you're dealing with a subsonic, 40gr, solid lead projectile that the slightest breeze will take off course. At 50 yards, with my 27.1" bbl Anschutz 2013BR-50, a 5 mph wind will move my impact point 1/4".

This will be a fun build. Shoot for better-than-MOA at 100. At 50, it'll be tight!
That's what I was assuming when I first bought my .22lr bolt. I figured with such a light round, under 1 MOA would be bragging rights. Then I've read on this forum and others how 100 yards is easy to do, etc. so I'm having mixed feelings about the whole thing.

At 50 yards, she gets between .50" - .90" 5 shot groups with the Golden Bullet stuff. This is on the bench with Atlas Bipod.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:09 PM
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Under 1 MOA at 100 WILL be bragging rights. Forget the forums and blogs: everyone is a marksman and 2500 shooter on the keyboard. If the stock CZ bbl is printing MOA at 50 with Golden Bullets, you've got a great, all-purpose chamber and bore to start with. Just remember most match .22 is designed to perform at 50 yards. Try some RWS R-100 (available from Anschutz North America) in that CZ and see what happens at a hundred. The R-100 has a bit more velocity (about 1100 fps) - so not quite so much drop at the century mark and a little less hang time.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:14 PM
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Keep the stock barrel, buy _SV_ ammo instead!
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:16 PM
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I own 9 CZs and they all like different ammo. Most shoot lights out with RWS R50. I have a couple that like Wolf MT. I think what you are trying to do is almost impossible but it is fun trying. I am at the range every weekend with my 4 daughters (37 to 27) we can get 1 hole groups at 50 yds but the wind and ammo limits your groups at 100.
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Old 03-21-2017, 1:11 PM
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I've got more groups at home but you catch my drift.

I'll attempt 1 MOA at 100 yards next time I go out then
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Old 03-21-2017, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceGirlsHusband View Post
Keep the goal do-able and you'll be happier. My goal in 50-yard benchrest is to put 5-10 shots in "one tiny hole." At a hundred yards I've never seen that done even with a $10K custom bench rifle with a one-piece rest... at least not outdoors. Remember you're dealing with a subsonic, 40gr, solid lead projectile that the slightest breeze will take off course. At 50 yards, with my 27.1" bbl Anschutz 2013BR-50, a 5 mph wind will move my impact point 1/4".

This will be a fun build. Shoot for better-than-MOA at 100. At 50, it'll be tight!
Finally someone using their head and being practical. I love my CZ's and one is "tricked out to the max" but still won't make tiny holes at 100 yds. I can shoot 3/8 holes all day at 50 yds and an occasional 1/4, but they spread out at 100. Buy the best ammo that you can find to get the smallest holes. Plinking ammo like Federal auto match won't even come close.
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Old 03-21-2017, 4:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gityerkneedahn View Post
Over on rimfire central they have monthly 100yd challenge in the cz forum, worth a look, you'll get an idea of different set-ups, ammo used etc... some friendly knowledgeable peeps over there.


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+1 on rimfire central. I am not a member there just doing research to see which rimfire i should get. Seems like ammo is the #1 priority. Barrel is second (some cz varmint barrels are not as good as stock, but Lilja is consistantly good. Last is trigger or stock.
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Old 03-21-2017, 4:26 PM
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By the way, nice stock. Waiting for a used one to pop up on Calguns.
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Old 03-21-2017, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael1one View Post
+1 on rimfire central. I am not a member there just doing research to see which rimfire i should get. Seems like ammo is the #1 priority. Barrel is second (some cz varmint barrels are not as good as stock, but Lilja is consistantly good. Last is trigger or stock.
Rimfire central is an excellent place for good info. It takes all that you have mentioned to get a CZ to shoot its best. I have a Varmint that I have replaced the barrel with a Lilja, replaced the stock with a BR stock, polished the bolt, polished and reshaped the firing pin, pillared and bedded the stock and use the best ammo I can find that the rifle likes. With everything I have done to it, it still takes concentration and practice to get the results that I want.
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Old 03-21-2017, 4:47 PM
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This is a CZ455 at 100yds and I'm not a bench rest shooter...10 rounds...

IMG_0629.JPG
IMG_0630.JPG


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Old 03-21-2017, 4:51 PM
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10 at 75yds...

IMG_0234.JPG

10 round groups at 100yds...

IMG_0229.JPG


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Old 03-21-2017, 5:02 PM
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200yds...

IMG_0278.JPG

175yds...

IMG_0277.JPG

The point is that the CZs are very accurate outta the box...yes wind does easily effect the 22 and the groups I posted were dead calm days but the two above were in the snow as you can see....I'm not trying to brag or claim to be a sniper or even a great shot I'm just saying that a 22 can print small groups at long distances

IMG_0269.JPG

IMG_0273.JPG


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Old 03-21-2017, 5:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post

The point is that the CZs are very accurate outta the box...yes wind does easily effect the 22 and the groups I posted were dead calm days but the two above were in the snow as you can see....I'm not trying to brag or claim to be a sniper or even a great shot I'm just saying that a 22 can print small groups at long distances

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Thanks for that!

See, the rest of the guys we're saying it's nearly impossible without going all out custom and I refuse to believe that.

I was looking for recommendations on the things I can change (ammo/barrel) to help achieve that better accuracy. If there are other barrels to consider, I'd look at those options too.

With that being said, I'll go ahead and order 1,000 rounds of Eley Tenex to go with the 1,000 rounds of Wolf Match. Now, to find a good source to buy from!
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Old 03-21-2017, 5:53 PM
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You can order a lijia barrel but they are $410 bucks.

My 455 is all factory except for the timney trigger and the muzzle brake...the only reason it has a brake is because I thought the 50cal brake would get a good laugh at the range.

You might want to try some lapua center X...it's only about $10 a box...it did not shoot in my rifle but may in yours...mine like the Eley edge best.

I just ordered 16" and 20" barrels from CZ but only because the 24" is a little long...I'll post back how each one shoots when I get them.

And just an FYI...I was shooting my Kidd Sunday and switching back and forth from wolf ME and sk pistol match...both shoot very good in my Kidd but neither were shooting Sunday.
I've read and found it true that when switching ammos it might take several rounds to shoot....it took 40 rounds before either ammo would settle in and shoot after switching.


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Old 03-21-2017, 6:03 PM
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http://ammunitionstore.com/categorie...ion/match.html

http://www.championshooters.com

http://www.champchoice.com/store/Mai...yBody&c=APRAWO


http://www.killoughshootingsports.com

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...mo?d=121&c=417

These guys are all pretty good to deal with and will check lot numbers for you.


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Old 03-22-2017, 7:58 AM
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You could use what you have and just shoot 1 shot groups.
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:18 AM
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Default CZ 455 PT .22lr

Quote:
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You could use what you have and just shoot 1 shot groups.




lol...this would save a grip of money...or would it?...



DAMN these short range BR guys!!!...

IMG_0441.JPG
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:22 AM
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Buy match ammo as that's far cheaper than buying a barrel. There are various brands such as Eley, SK, etc. Try that. If none of the match ammo meet your expectations, then think about the barrel.
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:25 AM
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try using subsonic match ammo. best bang for the buck would be wolf match or you can try aguila rifle match or aguila subsonic. turners sells both the aguila products to try out.
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Old 03-22-2017, 1:20 PM
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I knew a guy once that said he had a 10/22 that could shoot 1/2 in groups all day at 200 yds with Federal auto match. Yep, that's what he said, so I guess it's true. He even posted pics.
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Old 03-22-2017, 1:58 PM
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Well joe I'm just over the hill if you ever want to make the trip and shoot


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Old 03-22-2017, 7:13 PM
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If it wasn't for the wind and rain, I'd say getting 1 MOA wouldn't prove difficult with the right ammunition.

Took out the CZ and averaged 1.5-2 with CCI Mini mag; feel bad for the guy to my left who's target was shot up by the group of idiots to his left.
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
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You could use what you have and just shoot 1 shot groups.


Gunius.


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Old 03-29-2017, 8:54 PM
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This stock (just upgraded the trigger with a YoDave to 1.5lbs) CZ455 will shoot one inch at 100 with wolf or SKs+ ammo
one has to take into consideration the weather
gets a little windy or ground effect heat and all bets are off
haven tried expensive ELEY ammo but that wasn't my goal
just a consistent 1 MOA gun which it is
I would not replace the barrel if it were me just because the cost I doubt will gain much better than the stock barrel
at 50 its 1/2 MOA or better and 25 its a ragged hole gun
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Old 03-29-2017, 9:14 PM
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My Wolf Math arrived 2 days ago so I had an opportunity to take her out today at 100 yards;









She managed sub moa once out of the 10 or so groups. There are plenty of half inch 3 or 4 shot groups but once I got 5 down, I'd have a flier or two.

I believe the rifle has the potential for better, but the constant gusts of wind kept throwing off a shot here and there. The other 2 calgunners that came along really enjoyed shooting it as well.

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Old 03-30-2017, 4:15 AM
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KV have you cleaned the barrel?

youve been shooting copper plated and cheap-er ammo through it...id suggest a good cleaning(and not just a bore snake)then go out and shoot 50 rounds of the match ammo through it before you actually start looking for groups...if/when you switch to another match ammo give it 20-30 rounds before you really start to analyze groups...id also suggest you shoot at 50yds first then when you find a group/ammo you like move out to 100yds...same concept as a center fire just on a smaller scale and not as loud.

also as mentioned above stick to ammo that is below 1100FPS...1MOA groups at 100yds in the wind is pretty damn good.
dont give up on that barrel...i just got my 16" and 20" barrels monday...swapped the 24 out for the 16 and was pretty impressed when i went out on tuesday after work.

im not a BR shooter and after shooting both the 16 and the 24" factory barrels i dont see the need for a $400+ dollar barrel...if i was going to spend that kinda money id just buy an anschutz or some other high end custom.

Last edited by longrange1; 03-30-2017 at 4:19 AM..
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Old 03-30-2017, 6:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwikvette View Post
I was going to order some Eley Tenex and that's when I was recommended Wolf Match. Apparently it's the same as the SK match ammunition. Wondering what other match grade stuff is available out there.

Wolf Match Target = SK Standard Plus = Lapua Standard Plus
Wolf Match Extra = SK Rifle Match

22LR is funny, in that the "best" ammo may not shoot best in your rifle. But you need a grade of ammo that is consistent enough so you have fewer flyers. CCI SV is probably the lowest grade to start with to attempt to get a sub MOA average (average of four 5 shot groups). SK Standard Plus is slightly more consistent, and it goes up from there. Still, your particular rifle may shoot CCI better than SK.

If one of your goals is to shoot cheaper than your AR, you should try the starting or mid-levels of each of the manufactureres (e.g. CCI, Lapua, Eley, RWS), and move up until you find the best ammo for your rifle. Some people get better results from Ceneter X ($14) than Midas + ($20), even though Midas, by price, should be higher quality.

My work in progress (mostly DIY gunsmithing) 10/22 with cheap Green Mountain barrel (been messing with the chamber) luckily does well with cheap ammo. I could probably do better with a better barrel, but it would be a crap shoot on whether the better barrel would do as well with the cheap stuff.

These are 3 consective groups at 100 with CCI SV (the target I like to shoot has 12 - 2" bulls). CCI SV won't do this for 4 consecutive groups without a flyer messing things up:



These are 3 consective groups at 100 with GECO Semi-Auto (RWS), shot ont the same day. This ammo will usually shoot better than CCI for me,, but it's very close most of the time:



These three are NOT consecutive, but showing what happens with 5 versus 10 versus a 40 shot group with CCI SV. Conditions were 60 degrees, light wind.



I've tried SK+/Wolf Match Target, Wolf Match Extra, Eley Club, GECO Match, TAC-22, Match-22, and several other low/mid grade ammos, but they only get me slightly better consistency. I have some Midas + coming on Saturday, but I'm sort of hoping it won't be a lot better, so I don't get tempted/spoiled.
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Old 03-30-2017, 8:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
KV have you cleaned the barrel?

youve been shooting copper plated and cheap-er ammo through it...id suggest a good cleaning(and not just a bore snake)then go out and shoot 50 rounds of the match ammo through it before you actually start looking for groups...if/when you switch to another match ammo give it 20-30 rounds before you really start to analyze groups...id also suggest you shoot at 50yds first then when you find a group/ammo you like move out to 100yds...same concept as a center fire just on a smaller scale and not as loud.

also as mentioned above stick to ammo that is below 1100FPS...1MOA groups at 100yds in the wind is pretty damn good.
dont give up on that barrel...i just got my 16" and 20" barrels monday...swapped the 24 out for the 16 and was pretty impressed when i went out on tuesday after work.

im not a BR shooter and after shooting both the 16 and the 24" factory barrels i dont see the need for a $400+ dollar barrel...if i was going to spend that kinda money id just buy an anschutz or some other high end custom.
I haven't thoroughly cleaned the barrel after shooting the copper stuff, but did run the snake several times. Also put a good 50+rounds before I started trying to check groups all at 100 yards.

Maybe when looking for the 'best' ammo for my rifle, I should stay at the 50 yards; only problem is I don't really enjoy being at 50 yards and it's fun having shot the .22lr only to see the bullet splatter a split second later.

I'll continue on my adventure for the best ammo and my next batch to try is the Federal Premium stuff stacked in my closet. I will say I was impressed with the Wolf Match.
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Old 03-30-2017, 8:14 AM
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Kwikvette Kwikvette is offline
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Wolf Match Target = SK Standard Plus = Lapua Standard Plus
Wolf Match Extra = SK Rifle Match
This seems to be spouted in several other forums; good to know that way I can just buy the stuff that's listed the cheapest.

Quote:
22LR is funny, in that the "best" ammo may not shoot best in your rifle. But you need a grade of ammo that is consistent enough so you have fewer flyers. CCI SV is probably the lowest grade to start with to attempt to get a sub MOA average (average of four 5 shot groups). SK Standard Plus is slightly more consistent, and it goes up from there. Still, your particular rifle may shoot CCI better than SK.

If one of your goals is to shoot cheaper than your AR, you should try the starting or mid-levels of each of the manufactureres (e.g. CCI, Lapua, Eley, RWS), and move up until you find the best ammo for your rifle. Some people get better results from Ceneter X ($14) than Midas + ($20), even though Midas, by price, should be higher quality.
My goal was to see how accurate a .22lr really is at longer ranges. I'll still shoot .223 and so forth but the .22lr is just really fun.

Quote:

My work in progress (mostly DIY gunsmithing) 10/22 with cheap Green Mountain barrel (been messing with the chamber) luckily does well with cheap ammo. I could probably do better with a better barrel, but it would be a crap shoot on whether the better barrel would do as well with the cheap stuff.

These are 3 consective groups at 100 with CCI SV (the target I like to shoot has 12 - 2" bulls). CCI SV won't do this for 4 consecutive groups without a flyer messing things up:



These are 3 consective groups at 100 with GECO Semi-Auto (RWS), shot ont the same day. This ammo will usually shoot better than CCI for me,, but it's very close most of the time:



These three are NOT consecutive, but showing what happens with 5 versus 10 versus a 40 shot group with CCI SV. Conditions were 60 degrees, light wind.



I've tried SK+/Wolf Match Target, Wolf Match Extra, Eley Club, GECO Match, TAC-22, Match-22, and several other low/mid grade ammos, but they only get me slightly better consistency. I have some Midas + coming on Saturday, but I'm sort of hoping it won't be a lot better, so I don't get tempted/spoiled.
Nice groups!

This CZ is my first and only .22lr bolt gun; I got it purely out of 1. aesthetics and 2. ergonomics. I also have this problem with trying to get the best out of what I own/shoot so I'd like to achieve the level of accuracy with this that my bolt guns and AR's exhibit.
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Old 03-30-2017, 8:56 AM
gityerkneedahn gityerkneedahn is offline
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On a side note, where did you get your PT? Are they legit in CA? Thought they had threaded barrels?


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Old 03-30-2017, 8:58 AM
gityerkneedahn gityerkneedahn is offline
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Scrub that. I'm thinking of the Tacticool.


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Old 03-30-2017, 9:22 AM
longrange1 longrange1 is offline
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Default CZ 455 PT .22lr

KV id clean the barrel good before your next trip.



i also see all the time about wolf and SK being the same...it may very well be but not in either of my 22s...both wolf ammos shoot good in both my 22s but the other three dont.



heres the first 50 rounds outta the 16" barrel i just swapped at 25yds...the ones with the 3 with the Xs are the first three then 22 shot group...target 1 to the right is 25 rounds..





50yds



50yds...

stumpy likes the wolf ME and the eley edge...

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Last edited by longrange1; 03-30-2017 at 9:48 AM..
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