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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 06-24-2007, 3:51 PM
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Default Personal Firearms Eligibility Check vs. DROS checks

Anyone know if the PFEC that you send into the CA DOJ, is that exact same check as if you were to goto the Dealership to purchase a firearm? For example, passing either one will not make a difference in purchasing?
  #2  
Old 06-24-2007, 6:29 PM
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The entire point of the PFEC is to confirm that you will then pass a DROS (assuming you don't have something happen in between like a felony arrest or a driver's license suspension.)

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  #3  
Old 06-25-2007, 7:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBear View Post
Anyone know if the PFEC that you send into the CA DOJ, is that exact same check as if you were to goto the Dealership to purchase a firearm? For example, passing either one will not make a difference in purchasing?
I understand the first sentence, but not the second.

Here is my take on this PFEC. If you are not sure if you can own a gun or not, you can send in your PFEC and it will cost you $20 and you have to find a notary. The DOJ will eventually send you a response and then you will know if you can buy a gun or not. If you can buy a gun, then you will have to spend another $25 when you go to DROS your firearm.

It might not be legal, but it makes more sense to just go and try to buy a firearm and spend the $5 extra dollars on a gamble you go through and skip the notary process. I think it is illegal (in some cases, I am not sure) for prohibited person to try and buy guns. However, with all of the people that have been rejected by the DOJ from my shop, I have not heard of any of them being prosecuted for trying to buy a firearm and getting denied.

I had a guy call on the phone yesterday and he had the first case where I think it might be smarter to go with the PFEC. He wanted to buy a handgun and I told him he has to have an HSC before I can process his paperwork. In that case he would have to buy an HSC before we can start his DROS. So that would be $50 he would be gambling if he was denied. He wanted a refund on his test if he was denied, no dice!

Still, even if he does the PFEC and is not denied, he just wasted at least $20, maybe more since Notary might cost him $10.

The moral of the story, don't be a criminal.
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Old 06-25-2007, 8:58 AM
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Also, I've heard and seen data that supports that most DROS's are denied due to minor Driver's License issues like a failure to pay a VLF.

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Old 06-25-2007, 9:40 AM
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Can I take the exam, and fill out the DROS without purchasing the firearm? Sort of like being pre-approved when I put enough money aside for one.
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Old 06-25-2007, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBear View Post
Can I take the exam, and fill out the DROS without purchasing the firearm? Sort of like being pre-approved when I put enough money aside for one.
No. DROS doesn't work that way. It must be done at the time of the actual sale. The HSC exam, however, can be taken at any time, regardless of whether or not you're buying a firearm at the time. I've never taken the HSC exam... but then again, I'm currently exempt from it...
  #7  
Old 06-25-2007, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottyBear View Post
Can I take the exam, and fill out the DROS without purchasing the firearm? Sort of like being pre-approved when I put enough money aside for one.
Actually, you can do this. It is simply called layaway. If you know you are going to have enough money to buy the gun and will be able to pay it off in 30 days, sure you can do this. I have no problems starting a DROS if you know the gun will be paid off in 30 days and you are going to pick it up.

Just in case you flake, I always get at least $25 out of the customer so if you split, then I don't lose $25 for filing a DROS.

For handguns one DROS per handgun and the serial number has to be entered. For long guns, we can do whatever we want, just about. The DOJ doesn't like us to put you are buying one long gun and then you decide to buy two. So I will often put down more guns as they said they don't care if you change your mind and get less guns. I think they have this inconsistent policy because they want more DROS money, but what do I know?
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Old 06-26-2007, 12:39 AM
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Failure to pay VLF? I doubt that would be legal
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Old 06-26-2007, 4:50 PM
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If I did purchase a layaway firearm (some dealers allow up to 60 days), and I perform the DROS check that day, can I still pick up the firearm at the 30th day (or 60th), or does a new DROS check need to be performed? Or is the DROS check only done on the 60th day, plus an additional 10 day wait period?

Thanks
  #10  
Old 06-26-2007, 11:05 PM
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Guns must be picked up within 30 twenty-four hour periods or your DROS expires and a new one must be submitted. If you were going to put a gun on layaway for longer than 30 days, then I wouldn't DROS it unless you like wasting $25.
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  #11  
Old 04-06-2010, 8:35 PM
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Default question.

i am curently waiting the ten days, a little stressed, what kind of things other than the obvious feloni and misdemeanor stuff can they deny you for. the man i am buying the gun from was saying unpaid child support and dmv fines and fees. what else will they deny you for?

thanks
  #12  
Old 04-06-2010, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAKER View Post
i am curently waiting the ten days, a little stressed, what kind of things other than the obvious feloni and misdemeanor stuff can they deny you for. the man i am buying the gun from was saying unpaid child support and dmv fines and fees. what else will they deny you for?

thanks
Improper grammar and spelling and necroposting.
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  #13  
Old 04-07-2010, 6:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAKER View Post
i am curently waiting the ten days, a little stressed, what kind of things other than the obvious feloni and misdemeanor stuff can they deny you for. the man i am buying the gun from was saying unpaid child support and dmv fines and fees. what else will they deny you for?

thanks
See here: How can I find out if I'm eligible to purchase or possess a firearm?

then follow the link in the answer to the DOJ document which lists all the reasons that you can be denied. None of the things you listed ("unpaid child support and dmv fines and fees") are grounds for denial.
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  #14  
Old 04-07-2010, 7:40 AM
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Thank you for the help.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Also, I've heard and seen data that supports that most DROS's are denied due to minor Driver's License issues like a failure to pay a VLF.

-Gene
So pay your fines until you are done purchasing firearms?
  #16  
Old 04-07-2010, 10:48 AM
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I did the PFEC before I started buying guns just because I had some issues as a minor, only issue is that it takes FOREVER lol...I can do the 10day waits with ease compaired to that wait....
  #17  
Old 04-07-2010, 3:48 PM
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PFEC does NOT guarantee you can buy a gun. We had a guy do one and it came back clean, he DRoS'd a pistol and got denied due to something in Vermont 35+ years ago. 99% of the time, the PFEC will match DRoS results, but it's never a 100% guarantee.
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  #18  
Old 04-07-2010, 9:20 PM
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PFEC does NOT guarantee you can buy a gun.
Nothing is perfect of course, but if you are denied after having passed PFEC there is no way they can prosecute you for their failure. Plus I'll bet failures are extremely rare. If I had any concern about my past, I'd do it in a heart beat as a sensible check.
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Old 04-08-2010, 4:32 PM
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How long do PFECs usually take? The FAQ says 30 days but can take up to 4 months. What happens if it's been longer than 4 months? The phone # in the DOJ FAQ is setup so it can't record messages and no one ever answers.
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Old 04-08-2010, 5:07 PM
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Don't forget that some stores charge a re-stocking fee if you fail the DROS; the PFEC might be a cheaper route if you are in doubt.
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  #21  
Old 04-08-2010, 7:36 PM
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How long do PFECs usually take? The FAQ says 30 days but can take up to 4 months. What happens if it's been longer than 4 months? The phone # in the DOJ FAQ is setup so it can't record messages and no one ever answers.
Is this hypothetical or an actual situation? If hypothetical--never heard of it. If real then it it is very unusual I'd think and likely got lost.

Stuff happens--I once got a dunning notice on my jointly filed taxes--seems the wife, when having our cashiers checks made out only put my SSN on the check in stead of both--the IRS somehow couldn't match up just my SSN and put a hold on it. So my account was delinquent--spent an hour straightening out but in the end everything was settled--they took all the blame and found the check. Unreal.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriverjustknows View Post
How long do PFECs usually take? The FAQ says 30 days but can take up to 4 months. What happens if it's been longer than 4 months? The phone # in the DOJ FAQ is setup so it can't record messages and no one ever answers.
i pfec 1 month ago and still no results... although they cashed my check. i wonder if there's any gunstores that will dros for me for 25. it is faster for sure. i need my gun soon!
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:19 PM
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One thing about the PFEC is that right above the applicant's signature is this:

Quote:
I also understand that if I currently possess/own firearms and the results of this
check reveal that I am ineligible to lawfully either possess or purchase firearms, I must relinquish any and all firearms in my possession.
It can be a can of worms.
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Old 09-09-2010, 1:45 PM
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I have a co-worker that was convicted of brandishing a rifle years ago. He was banned from owning firearms for 10 years. That term expired and he recently bought a rifle and got his HSC.
I am trying to talk him into buying a handgun so we can go to the range together. He's afraid he won't pass DROS because of the conviction.

Isn't the fact that his term is over, he was able to buy a rifle and get his HSC proof that he could purchase a handgun?

Would they issue a HSC if he was ineligible to purchase a handgun?
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Old 09-09-2010, 2:10 PM
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Being able to take and receive a HSC has nothing to do with being eligible to buy a handgun.
  #26  
Old 09-09-2010, 4:19 PM
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I had a PFEC that said no, I cleared it up, then got a gun. I went out and got another PFEC anyway just to see it in black and white, even though the gun purchase validated my ability to purchase.
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Old 09-09-2010, 5:04 PM
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The fact that he DROS'ed a rifle would seem to indicate to me that he could also successfully DROS a handgun.... I don't think there'e any additional scrutiny applied to handgun DROS'es, but I don't know that for sure...
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Old 11-21-2010, 6:57 AM
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btw, the pfec took about 21 days. received the letter and a phone call from DOJ to ensure that i received it. after pfec passed, bought a beretta 92fs inox and dros was clear. got my gun a month ago.
  #29  
Old 11-21-2010, 8:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
I understand the first sentence, but not the second.

Here is my take on this PFEC. If you are not sure if you can own a gun or not, you can send in your PFEC and it will cost you $20 and you have to find a notary. The DOJ will eventually send you a response and then you will know if you can buy a gun or not. If you can buy a gun, then you will have to spend another $25 when you go to DROS your firearm.

It might not be legal, but it makes more sense to just go and try to buy a firearm and spend the $5 extra dollars on a gamble you go through and skip the notary process. I think it is illegal (in some cases, I am not sure) for prohibited person to try and buy guns. However, with all of the people that have been rejected by the DOJ from my shop, I have not heard of any of them being prosecuted for trying to buy a firearm and getting denied.

I had a guy call on the phone yesterday and he had the first case where I think it might be smarter to go with the PFEC. He wanted to buy a handgun and I told him he has to have an HSC before I can process his paperwork. In that case he would have to buy an HSC before we can start his DROS. So that would be $50 he would be gambling if he was denied. He wanted a refund on his test if he was denied, no dice!

Still, even if he does the PFEC and is not denied, he just wasted at least $20, maybe more since Notary might cost him $10.

The moral of the story, don't be a criminal.
just to point out some bad advise in this post. Every denial we have shortly afterwards local law enforcement or district attorney stops by and investigates them then they usually arrest them and charge them with a crime. DMV denials dont get investigated though.
so do the PFEC if you arent sure if you will pass $20 is better then jail
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  #30  
Old 11-21-2010, 9:46 AM
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The only difference between a long gun DROS and an handgun DROS is whether CA DOJ retains the make/model/serial numbers (they do for handguns.)

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Old 11-21-2010, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Norse_Armory View Post
just to point out some bad advise in this post. Every denial we have shortly afterwards local law enforcement or district attorney stops by and investigates them then they usually arrest them and charge them with a crime. DMV denials dont get investigated though.
so do the PFEC if you arent sure if you will pass $20 is better then jail
I'm curious, who notifies them of the denial? I have never had LE "stop by" inquiring about a denial. IMHO, it would be very difficult to prove intent, as 99.99% of the people who get a denial have no clue they are prohibited at the time.
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Old 11-21-2010, 11:24 AM
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I'm curious, who notifies them of the denial? I have never had LE "stop by" inquiring about a denial. IMHO, it would be very difficult to prove intent, as 99.99% of the people who get a denial have no clue they are prohibited at the time.
the doj sends the local law enforcement a copy of the denial. every denial we've had is cc to woodland pd. I think most counties dont enforce it I dont know if they are able to get convictions though but they do ask us about them when it happens.
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Old 11-21-2010, 11:27 AM
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the doj sends the local law enforcement a copy of the denial. every denial we've had is cc to woodland pd. I think most counties dont enforce it I dont know if they are able to get convictions though but they do ask us about them when it happens.
Do you know what the denials are for? Federal, state, or the underlying infraction?
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Old 11-21-2010, 1:23 PM
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Do you know what the denials are for? Federal, state, or the underlying infraction?
DOJ never tells us why they get denied. Sometimes our customers do tell us why the denial happened, then they usually ask how to clear it up and we always refer them to Don Kilmer case we arent lawyers. I will say most of the denials tell me they had no idea they werent ok to buy.
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Old 11-27-2010, 9:46 PM
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Hi Im new here to this site, and hopefully will be a new gun owner soon.

When you buy a hand gun at say Turners, as soon as the guy starts your sale and your issued a DROS # does the salesman already know if your denied or approved?

Im on day 2 of a 10 day wait, but when I was a kid I had gotten in some trouble. Im almost positive My record was sealed because I remember the judge telling me she would seal it since I was already 18 when I was released. Im 36 now and have no felonies or serious crimes as an adult.

Ive always put "no" when asked about convictions, and have had jobs where I had to have backround checks before going into sensitive areas unescorted. Ive never lost a job or been denied access into any secure areas so I think Im good, but still have doubt in my mind.

I guess Im wondering if the salesman could have stopped me before putting a non-refundable deposit considering paying was the last thing I did?
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Old 11-27-2010, 9:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Rredeye View Post
Hi Im new here to this site, and hopefully will be a new gun owner soon.

When you buy a hand gun at say Turners, as soon as the guy starts your sale and your issued a DROS # does the salesman already know if your denied or approved?

Im on day 2 of a 10 day wait, but when I was a kid I had gotten in some trouble. Im almost positive My record was sealed because I remember the judge telling me she would seal it since I was already 18 when I was released. Im 36 now and have no felonies or serious crimes as an adult.

Ive always put "no" when asked about convictions, and have had jobs where I had to have backround checks before going into sensitive areas unescorted. Ive never lost a job or been denied access into any secure areas so I think Im good, but still have doubt in my mind.

I guess Im wondering if the salesman could have stopped me before putting a non-refundable deposit considering paying was the last thing I did?
There is no "instant" background check in CA. DOJ processes the check, and a negative result can come all the way up to the time you pick it up 10 days later, and in some cases, even after you pick it up. But that is an extreme rarity. If you're good to go...you or the dealer will never hear from DOJ.
  #37  
Old 11-27-2010, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jtmkinsd View Post
There is no "instant" background check in CA. DOJ processes the check, and a negative result can come all the way up to the time you pick it up 10 days later, and in some cases, even after you pick it up. But that is an extreme rarity. If you're good to go...you or the dealer will never hear from DOJ.
Thanks. I guess it was either gamble the money or wait for PFEC.
  #38  
Old 04-06-2016, 9:45 AM
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IMO there needs to be a way to electronically check a DROS before going to a dealer to pick up your weapon. I would think, and this were I probably fail myself, there should be a website were you could submit your DROS number and it would tell you the status. I know that must be mined blowing, but if you put in your SSN, Driverís License number and in my case my DOD ID Number it should not be any more than filling out a form online and submit. If you are clear you get an email saying so if not then wait the 30 days until you either get the weapon. This system needs to update.
  #39  
Old 04-07-2016, 6:58 AM
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Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
I understand the first sentence, but not the second.

Here is my take on this PFEC. If you are not sure if you can own a gun or not, you can send in your PFEC and it will cost you $20 and you have to find a notary. The DOJ will eventually send you a response and then you will know if you can buy a gun or not. If you can buy a gun, then you will have to spend another $25 when you go to DROS your firearm.

It might not be legal, but it makes more sense to just go and try to buy a firearm and spend the $5 extra dollars on a gamble you go through and skip the notary process. I think it is illegal (in some cases, I am not sure) for prohibited person to try and buy guns. However, with all of the people that have been rejected by the DOJ from my shop, I have not heard of any of them being prosecuted for trying to buy a firearm and getting denied.

I had a guy call on the phone yesterday and he had the first case where I think it might be smarter to go with the PFEC. He wanted to buy a handgun and I told him he has to have an HSC before I can process his paperwork. In that case he would have to buy an HSC before we can start his DROS. So that would be $50 he would be gambling if he was denied. He wanted a refund on his test if he was denied, no dice!

Still, even if he does the PFEC and is not denied, he just wasted at least $20, maybe more since Notary might cost him $10.

The moral of the story, don't be a criminal.
The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. -Ayn Rand
  #40  
Old 04-07-2016, 7:14 AM
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Originally Posted by socalguns View Post
Failure to pay VLF? I doubt that would be legal
So do I. My brothers Jeep has been parked in his garage in CA. Its inoperable
until he gets around to repair the vehicle. Thousands of vehicles are like that in many states.

How in the world can the CA DOJ stop a simple gun purchase simply on a vehicle that is non-driveable and is non-operational?

Last time I checked there was a Constitutional RIGHT to own firearms, and it has nothing to do with a vehicle that is non-operational and parked on private property.
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