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  #1  
Old 08-29-2012, 9:01 PM
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Default Ruger SR1911 vs. Les Baer?

Other than price, how does the Ruger SR1911 differ from say a Les Baer M1911?

Is it actually a matter of accuracy? How does that play out in group size? How good of a shot does one have to be to take advantage of any greater accuracy of an LB?

Is it actually a matter of reliability?

Is it a actually a matter of aesthetics?

Is it a actually a matter of panache at the range? "Whoa, how do you like your LES BAER?"

I like Les' style. I appreciate that he's a gearhead, but I am very curious about what one gets for three times the price of the Ruger?

Just curious. Thanks.
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Old 08-29-2012, 9:13 PM
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Les can guarantee 1.5in groups @ 50 yds.......... /thread
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Old 08-29-2012, 9:21 PM
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Your average shooter will not be able to tell a difference between the two in terms of accuracy. Now fit and finish are going to be a different story and you are talking apples and oranges. With a few upgrades you can get the Ruger to be a tack driver and you won't have to spend $2000 either.
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Old 08-29-2012, 9:22 PM
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You can't compare the 2 by price. The Les Baer is a hand fitted custom 1911. Ruger does things as cheap as possible. It would be the same kind of comparison as a luxury car and a base model import. There is nothing wrong with the Ruger, the 2 are just different levels.
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Old 08-29-2012, 9:23 PM
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Ferrari vs Toyota.
  #6  
Old 08-29-2012, 9:30 PM
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Ruger is very good at making investment casting so their 1911 has an investment cast frame.

Les Baer uses a forged steel frame. That's a big upgrade.

While I won't go as far as calling a Les Baer 1911 a "hand fitted custom 1911", it's pretty damn good for a semi-production 1911.

It's kind of like comparing a $500 Swiss diving watch to a Swatch watch.

I didn't say Rolex to Mickey Mouse because a Les Baer isn't quite a Rolex and the Ruger is certainly better than a Mickey Mouse watch.
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  #7  
Old 08-29-2012, 9:31 PM
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Bears use all bar steel parts I believe, no MIM. All parts are individually hand fitted for the best possible fit. You can get 30-40? LPI checkering that can only be done by hand. Just closer attention to detail with fitted parts for a tight solidly built 1911. Crisp trigger with a full action/trigger job, perfectly tuned extractor. All national match grade parts. Much different than a production line built 1911. Plus that 1.5" guarantee. Me personally though I'd be happy with 3 inches at 50 yards lol. I'd love to get a Baer one day. Until then my Colt will have to do.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas1190 View Post
Bears use all bar steel parts I believe, no MIM. All parts are individually hand fitted for the best possible fit. You can get 30-40? LPI checkering that can only be done by hand. Just closer attention to detail with fitted parts for a tight solidly built 1911. Crisp trigger with a full action/trigger job, perfectly tuned extractor. All national match grade parts. Much different than a production line built 1911. Plus that 1.5" guarantee. Me personally though I'd be happy with 3 inches at 50 yards lol. I'd love to get a Baer one day. Until then my Colt will have to do.
30 and 40 LPI machine checkering is possible and available...
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2012, 11:12 PM
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I already answered this question in the Les Baer thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by InGrAM View Post
You have to actually feel and see the difference between higherend/tier 1911's and production level 1911's.

There is no comparison between say Ruger, SIG, RIA, Springers(minus TRP's), S&W, and say Les Baer, Wilson, Ed Brown, Dan Wesson, etc...

The "fit and finish" are where the quality really shines through and it is very noticeable. Hand fitting does wonders for the 1911 platform.

Not saying that production level 1911's won't work and work well, they just don't have the feel as the semi-custom and higher tier 1911's.
If you think that a Ruger is "just as good" as a semi-custom 1911 then you are mistaken.
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:24 PM
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Take a look yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpdy8...ure=plpp_video
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  #11  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonzer77 View Post
Your average shooter will not be able to tell a difference between the two in terms of accuracy. Now fit and finish are going to be a different story and you are talking apples and oranges. With a few upgrades you can get the Ruger to be a tack driver and you won't have to spend $2000 either.
How will the fit and finish really differ? Yes, LB's have extremely tight fitting slides -- some say too tight, yet I've heard their bluing leaves something to be desired.

If someone knew nothing about Ruger or LB but understood quality work and mechanisms, what would really be different?
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  #12  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by shooterbill View Post
You can't compare the 2 by price. The Les Baer is a hand fitted custom 1911. Ruger does things as cheap as possible. It would be the same kind of comparison as a luxury car and a base model import. There is nothing wrong with the Ruger, the 2 are just different levels.
You just tap-danced around my questions. If the two were side by side on the bench, how would they actually differ in the ways I mentioned?
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damiiaaannn View Post
Ferrari vs Toyota.
In what ways precisely? How does the accuracy, reliability and fit/finish ACTUALLY differ between the two?
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Last edited by Excelsior; 08-30-2012 at 12:14 AM..
  #14  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wash View Post
Ruger is very good at making investment casting so their 1911 has an investment cast frame.

Les Baer uses a forged steel frame. That's a big upgrade.

How so? Are Ruger frames known to break? Are they known to stretch/deflect in a way that impacts accuracy or reliability?
I know a fair amount about investment casting and forging. How do the products each process delivers differ in their performance in this application?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wash View Post
While I won't go as far as calling a Les Baer 1911 a "hand fitted custom 1911", it's pretty damn good for a semi-production 1911.

It's kind of like comparing a $500 Swiss diving watch to a Swatch watch.

I didn't say Rolex to Mickey Mouse because a Les Baer isn't quite a Rolex and the Ruger is certainly better than a Mickey Mouse watch.
Why not stick to the questions? LB guarantees his 1911's will deliver 3" groups at 50 yards and if you wish to pay extra, 1.5" groups at 50 yards -- assuming the shooter is up to it. What will the Ruger do out of the box? Anyone here know? I don't.

Anyone here ever hear of an SR1911 frame failing or deflecting because it is cast rather than forged?

Anyone every held both an SR1911 and a stainless LB next to one another? How do they actually differ in aesthetics?
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  #15  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas1190 View Post
Bears use all bar steel parts I believe, no MIM. All parts are individually hand fitted for the best possible fit. You can get 30-40? LPI checkering that can only be done by hand. Just closer attention to detail with fitted parts for a tight solidly built 1911. Crisp trigger with a full action/trigger job, perfectly tuned extractor. All national match grade parts. Much different than a production line built 1911. Plus that 1.5" guarantee. Me personally though I'd be happy with 3 inches at 50 yards lol. I'd love to get a Baer one day. Until then my Colt will have to do.
MIM parts are not necessarily superior to "steel" parts...

Hand checkering, ok, that is a noticeable difference, although I'm not entirely sure it is better.

Will a Ruger deliver 3" at 50 yards (LB's standard guarantee) if the shooter is capable?
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  #16  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:19 AM
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You win.

Ruger > LB

/thread
  #17  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldnoob View Post
I've watched that video before. Though I like LB himself in that video, I'm not so sure I'm that impressed with his shop. In any event I don't have a clip from Prescott to compare it to.
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by patrickstarfish View Post
You win.

Ruger > LB

/thread
I'm not trying to suggest the Ruger is better than the LB. I would just like to know the ACTUAL differences in terms of accuracy, reliability and fit/finish.

I've received a ton of hyperbole about Rolexes, Swatches, etc. but very little about how the two handguns differ in terms of the criteria I mentioned in my opening post. Please go troll elsewhere.
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Last edited by Excelsior; 08-30-2012 at 12:26 AM..
  #19  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:29 AM
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This is a nice write-up of the SR1911's accuracy using a Ransom Rest. This specimen held 1.5" at 25 yards. It would have been interesting to see how it would have fared at 50 yards.

http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=1660
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InGrAM View Post
I already answered this question in the Les Baer thread.

If you think that a Ruger is "just as good" as a semi-custom 1911 then you are mistaken.
I never made any such comment or inference. I asked some questions.
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:38 AM
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seems like you concluded all the answers to your question...why ask?
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
This is a nice write-up of the SR1911's accuracy using a Ransom Rest. This specimen held 1.5" at 25 yards. It would have been interesting to see how it would have fared at 50 yards.

http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=1660
Yes, and a GSR can do 1 1/4" groups at 25 yards and 1 7/8" at 50 yards. I guess that makes it much better than the Ruger.

You are not understanding that hand fitting goes into semi-custom 1911's and not the Ruger. There is a HUGE difference. If you go and handle both of them and cant tell the difference, then you have nerve damage.
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:49 AM
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OP, it almost sounds like you are trying to justify the purchase of the Ruger SR1911

I don’t know how else to say what others have already said... but just go picked up a Ruger and a Les Baer and tell me if you can or cannot see or feel the difference. Pick up a Ruger and a Sig 1911, I felt and saw the difference, I ended up with a Sig 1911. It’s my opinion that it is one of the better production pistols on the market. Others may disagree, but it’s whatever satisfies your pallet.

The Les Baer is a connoisseurs 1911, hand fitted, refined.

It’s like sipping on a $50 bottle of scotch vs. a $300 bottle of scotch. I can tell you all about the two, but you really just got to taste test it yourself to see the difference. If you can’t see a difference, the Ruger is the obvious choice. Both are gona get you drunk.
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InGrAM View Post
Yes, and a GSR can do 1 1/4" groups at 25 yards and 1 7/8" at 50 yards. I guess that makes it much better than the Ruger.

You are not understanding that hand fitting goes into semi-custom 1911's and not the Ruger. There is a HUGE difference. If you go and handle both of them and cant tell the difference, then you have nerve damage.
No, you are not understanding that I asked how the Ruger SR1911 and a Les Baer 1911 differed in terms of accuracy, reliability aesthetics and panache.
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  #25  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
OP, it almost sounds like you are trying to justify the purchase of the Ruger SR1911

I donít know how else to say what others have already said... but just go picked up a Ruger and a Les Baer and tell me if you can or cannot see or feel the difference. Pick up a Ruger and a Sig 1911, I felt and saw the difference, I ended up with a Sig 1911. Itís my opinion that it is one of the better production pistols on the market. Others may disagree, but itís whatever satisfies your pallet.

The Les Baer is a connoisseurs 1911, hand fitted, refined.

Itís like sipping on a $50 bottle of scotch vs. a $300 bottle of scotch. I can tell you all about the two, but you really just got to taste test it yourself to see the difference. If you canít see a difference, the Ruger is the obvious choice. Both are gona get you drunk.
OK, so the LB is not necessarily any better in terms or accuracy or reliability but it is superior in terms of aesthetics/feel? OK, maybe we are getting somewhere.

How do the two LOOK different?

How do the two FEEL different?
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Old 08-30-2012, 1:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gti_20ae View Post
seems like you concluded all the answers to your question...why ask?
You're absolutely wrong about that.

I asked some fairly specific questions in my OP. Most of the "responses" were crap -- devoid of anything other than hyperbole.

Someone got into casting vs. forging and a few other meaty topics so I asked further questions.

I still would like to know how an SR1911 compares to the 3" @ 50 guarantee of the LB? Remarkable that not one person offered that data.

Now that it was mentioned I would like to know if an SR1911 frame has ever failed or deflected because it was cast rather than forged? I would also like to know if any MIM parts on the Ruger have caused any problems on that model?
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Old 08-30-2012, 1:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wash View Post
While I won't go as far as calling a Les Baer 1911 a "hand fitted custom 1911", it's pretty damn good for a semi-production 1911.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpdy8QQ-Y-Q
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Old 08-30-2012, 1:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
No, you are not understanding that I asked how the Ruger SR1911 and a Les Baer 1911 differed in terms of accuracy, reliability aesthetics and panache.
I bet it hurts your feelings that a GSR is more accurate than your Ruger.

Keep it up though, this is a hilarious thread. It is fun watching a troll try and reassure himself.

I did understand, unlike you clearly... and I did answer your question. You are the one that doesn't understand the 1911 platform, if you did you would know that hand fitting equates to better reliability, accuracy, and even aesthetics. But you are too caught up in your own bias and half assed attempt to make people that purchased or plan on purchasing Les Baer's 1911s out to be idiots because they could have bought a Ruger for a half the price.

Last edited by InGrAM; 08-30-2012 at 1:56 AM..
  #29  
Old 08-30-2012, 1:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
OK, so the LB is not necessarily any better in terms or accuracy or reliability but it is superior in terms of aesthetics/feel? OK, maybe we are getting somewhere.

How do the two LOOK different?

How do the two FEEL different?
Hand fitted done right = tighter tolerances. Trigger fit, barrel fit, slide to frame fit… all this matters, and plays into the pistols accuracy capability. Accuracy = Consistency…Chances are, the LB has a greater accuracy potential due to less slop and higher consistency during operation.

Just look at the precision bolt gun world, it’s all about tight tolerances and consistency in the firearm and ammunition.
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Old 08-30-2012, 1:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Hand fitted done right = tighter tolerances. Trigger fit, barrel fit, slide to frame fit… all this matters, and plays into the pistols accuracy capability. Accuracy = Consistency…Chances are, the LB has a greater accuracy potential due to less slop and higher consistency during operation.

Just look at the precision bolt gun world, it’s all about tight tolerances and consistency in the firearm and ammunition.
So the LB feels "tighter?" I have actually read and heard that LB's are too tight for some -- definitely tighter than other semi-custom 1911's. In that regard does an LB feel a lot better than the even more expensive Ed Brown offerings for example?

But what I'm even more interested in is how these tighter tolerances effect the accuracy and durability/reliability a LB vs. the Ruger?
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Last edited by Excelsior; 08-30-2012 at 1:36 AM..
  #31  
Old 08-30-2012, 1:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
So the LB feels "tighter?" I have actually read and heard that LB's are too tight for some -- definitely tighter than other semi-custom 1911's. In that regard does an LB feel a lot better than the even more expensive Ed Brown offerings for example?

But what I'm even more interested in is how these tighter tolerances effect the accuracy and durability/reliability a LB vs. the Ruger?
I am not a 1911 expert… nor do I have access to high end 1911s on a regular basis. The only ones I have tried are from other members at the range who were kind enough to let me fire theirs. My wallet stops at the Sig 1911.

It seems like common sense to assume that when a gun with really tight tolerances gets dirty, it adds resistance, and may cause issues. I also assume that someone with a $2000-3000 1911 would actually clean it and maintain it well. So it may be a moot point.

Then again I see manufactures like Nighthawk who also makes $2000-$3000 1911s market heavily to law enforcement. I don’t know much about them, but I have a few LE friends who carry and love them. I would assume its reliability at a premium?

End of the day in the world of high end 1911… you are paying for the time, expertise, and labor of their makers. You are getting a better pistol, and paying dearly for it. It may not be 2x or x3 better based on the price, but I can assure you, it’s better.

Last edited by ExtremeX; 08-30-2012 at 1:53 AM..
  #32  
Old 08-30-2012, 7:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
This is a nice write-up of the SR1911's accuracy using a Ransom Rest. This specimen held 1.5" at 25 yards. It would have been interesting to see how it would have fared at 50 yards.

http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=1660

So at 50 yards my guess ( I am not rocket scientist) is that it would do a 3"+ group
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Old 08-30-2012, 7:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
MIM parts are not necessarily superior to "steel" parts...

Hand checkering, ok, that is a noticeable difference, although I'm not entirely sure it is better.

Will a Ruger deliver 3" at 50 yards (LB's standard guarantee) if the shooter is capable?

MIM parts are NOT superior to correctly machined tool steel parts.
MIM parts will have voids and are usually only case hardened (Hard outside soft inside) while the higher end 1911 makers will have their tool steel parts through hardened.
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Old 08-30-2012, 7:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
I'm not trying to suggest the Ruger is better than the LB. I would just like to know the ACTUAL differences in terms of accuracy, reliability and fit/finish.

I've received a ton of hyperbole about Rolexes, Swatches, etc. but very little about how the two handguns differ in terms of the criteria I mentioned in my opening post. Please go troll elsewhere.

You seem like you're just hear to argue, but Les guarantees that level of accuracy and Ruger does not. Les Baer has real gunsmiths 'fitting' each part that was originally oversized not just assembling it like Ruger.
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Old 08-30-2012, 7:27 AM
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So the LB feels "tighter?" I have actually read and heard that LB's are too tight for some -- definitely tighter than other semi-custom 1911's. In that regard does an LB feel a lot better than the even more expensive Ed Brown offerings for example?

But what I'm even more interested in is how these tighter tolerances effect the accuracy and durability/reliability a LB vs. the Ruger?

They start off tight but have a break in period to final lap the parts, yes that could be done with additional file work but I'd prefer keeping the tolerances as close as possible. I shot 880 rounds thru my TRS in the first week to break it in and the close tolerances didn't seem to change after that until I sold it ~6,000 rounds later.
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  #36  
Old 08-30-2012, 7:29 AM
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So at 50 yards my guess ( I am not rocket scientist) is that it would do a 3"+ group

That particular one might, let's see what ten of them would do.
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  #37  
Old 08-30-2012, 8:07 AM
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Funny thread, I'll have to watch this one.
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  #38  
Old 08-30-2012, 8:53 AM
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How will the fit and finish really differ? Yes, LB's have extremely tight fitting slides -- some say too tight, yet I've heard their bluing leaves something to be desired.

If someone knew nothing about Ruger or LB but understood quality work and mechanisms, what would really be different?
If you can't figure that out for yourself then I feel bad for you, you aren't going to get very far in life

Were you getting bored trolling other threads that you felt like trolling les bear owners?
  #39  
Old 08-30-2012, 9:57 AM
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I don't have any personal experience with the Ruger 1911, but I am just about finished replacing most of the crap parts on my recently aquired Colt Series 80. The internals are all MIM, the mainspring housing was plastic, the bushing was darn sloppy, the grip safety was rough, and replacing all of the parts with quality ones gets expensive quick. So my guess is that to keep it cheap, the Ruger has a cast frame and slide, MIM internals and I wouldn't be surprised ff the mainspring housing is plastic.
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:02 AM
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I don't have any personal experience with the Ruger 1911, but I am just about finished replacing most of the crap parts on my recently aquired Colt Series 80. The internals are all MIM, the mainspring housing was plastic, the bushing was darn sloppy, the grip safety was rough, and replacing all of the parts with quality ones gets expensive quick. So my guess is that to keep it cheap, the Ruger has a cast frame and slide, MIM internals and I wouldn't be surprised ff the mainspring housing is plastic.
Not all of the internals are MIM, just the sear, disconnector, mag catch and, mag lock on the series 80's.
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