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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 08-26-2012, 1:11 PM
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Default Picked Up An ACOG for Cheap, and....(B4 and After Pics Added!!!)

I noticed something about the illumination. It seems that compared to my TA31, which is maybe 2 years old, it is not as bright. The model is a TA44-5, which is a 1.5x16 powered Dual Illumation (tritium and fiber optic) with a center Amber dot. Sweeping the house (lower light) basically doesnt make the reticle glow very bright, and is near invisible against lighter backdrops....even when under a ceiling light. Against black/dark backgrounds, it does "okay", but still not great. About the only time it does well is in either complete blackness (tritium is obviously okay) or in direct sunlight (very bright against any backdrop). Any indirect light causes the reticle to go in that "in-between" brightness, where its extremely dull. My TA31 with a red chevron, however, shows up a LOT more bright against pretty much any background in the house in any lighting situation. Daylight is perfect and so is pitch black. About the only situation where it doesnt work out well (for all ACOGs) is when you are under shade and looking into bright sunlit areas.

So my question is, knowing that the Fiber Optic brightness never dulls out over age like tritium does, why would it be dull? The plastic on the fiber optic is clear, no cracks....the only thing I can think of is the fact that the fiber line is shorter than the TA31 and the fact that it's Amber, not Red, which can blend in with certain backgrounds.

Any ideas? Is this something that I should address with Trijicon? There is some dust on the inside of the lens which needs to be cleaned out, so I was thinking of sending it in anyways and let them know about the dullness issue to see if they can fix that too. I have no experience with Trijicon's CS though.

Any ideas? Is it just the Amber color? Or could there be a bigger problem?
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  #2  
Old 08-26-2012, 1:27 PM
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You said you picked it up cheap; did you get it from a reputable source? Any chance it could be an airsoft knockoff?
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2012, 1:38 PM
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It’s so easy to spot a fake ACOG it’s not even funny... just look through it. If the OP already has an ACOG, he should know if it’s the real deal or not.

I’m going to say it’s the Amber color... Kind of my least favorite color trijicon has to offer. It’s not that bright in general and its harder for my eyes to pick up.

I have a TA31F Red Chevron… I think Red and Green are really easy for the eye to pick up, Green even more than Red.

It’s also has to do with your own eyes too.. Some people just have trouble with some colors.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with it, it’s just the color and the way its picked up by the eye.
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Old 08-26-2012, 8:29 PM
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I can definitely tell between fake and genuine products....especially so with ACOGs And by "cheap", I mean less than half off normal MSRP. It was my buddys who got it from a gun show a few years back.

I dunno, I guess the color might be an issue, but when I look through it, it just flat out isnt as bright. I wish I could take a picture to demonstrate, but it's really one of those things that you have to see in person because pictures just dont show the difference.

I think what I need to do is go into a store that sells them, or see someone else's Amber version and compare side by side. If it's the same, then I'll know that there's nothing wrong with mine. If not, then I'll know Amber just sucks for me.
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  #5  
Old 08-26-2012, 9:16 PM
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could someone have "cleaned" the fiber tube? I have seen where the fiber was cloudy due to chemical burning... think you would see that though. Looks like a dull white coloring to the tube.

Could also be an alignment issue with the light gathering not providing all the source it can.

Call Trijicon in the AM
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  #6  
Old 08-26-2012, 9:51 PM
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The fiber tube is also physically smaller, so it has less light gathering ability...

Cover or tape up the TA31 so it shows around the same ammount of fiber, its going to dim the chevron...

I still think it has more to do with the color, Ive used the 1.5x before in red, and it was pretty nice.

Something to keep in mind.
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:35 PM
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you can send it in, trijicon will fix it if something is wrong with it. if the tritium is old prematurely they will replace it...they might even swap colors?
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  #8  
Old 08-27-2012, 9:37 AM
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Some a quick pic from my phone. The pic shows the dot color/brightness. This is under 4 bright white florescent lights on an 8ft ceiling and it only shows a dim orange color. If I put the dot on a white background, you basically cant see it.

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  #9  
Old 08-27-2012, 12:11 PM
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wow...no way that is utilizing all the potential light energy...something is wrong.
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2012, 1:01 PM
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I usually have the problem with it being "too bright"... causing to tape up part of the fiber optic. My guess is something is wrong with yours. I'd send it in.
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  #11  
Old 08-27-2012, 1:15 PM
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Thanks for the pictures... I can see why you are questioning the fiber tube now... I think it should look brighter than that.

Call em up and see what Trijicon has to say. Send them the picture too.
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Old 08-27-2012, 1:35 PM
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they'll probly send you a new fiber tube, easy fix.
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2012, 9:10 PM
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Nothing is wrong. I just sold my TA45-2, same setup except triangle....that's just the way it is with these things. No light, you're good, daylight you're good....but low light the tritium is too dim, and the not enough ambient light for the fiber optic to work.

Either get used to it, or sell it for a red/green version.

I went back to an Aimpoint for this reason.

But please, there is nothing wrong with you ACOG. These things just wash out on Brit surfaces, or when looking into a bright area from a not-so-bright area.

ETA: my model was the TA45-2, sorry typo via iPhone. It's too bad, because I honestly think this is the best optic out there for 0-200m. The eye relief is crazy (literally usable from 1" to 10+"). And I was actually faster with it than with an Aimpoint.

You just have to realize its limitations being that it's not battery powered, and that the low light transition time period is where it's vulnerable.

Last edited by tomd1584; 08-27-2012 at 9:23 PM..
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  #14  
Old 08-28-2012, 6:47 PM
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So I got my RMA number today and I think I'm going to send it in. However, in the email, it says: "Any Trijicon optic purchased used or second hand is Void of Warranty. All repairs will be at cost to the customer." Since I bought mine second hand, does this mean that regardless of the cause, I'm going to have to pay for it? Or is this just a CYA statement in case there is user caused damage/fake product? I dont want to send it in to get to internal lens cleaned and fiber replaced if I am going to have to pay for it when none of that is a user caused problem....
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Old 08-28-2012, 6:54 PM
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Is your friend the original owner? Have him send it in…

If you bought it used, there is no warranty attached to that optic anymore.
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  #16  
Old 08-28-2012, 6:58 PM
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Also... before you send it in...

Take a look at the TA44-5 picture in this thread.... Looks pretty close to what you got.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/OpticsR...n/Trijicon.htm
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Old 08-28-2012, 8:32 PM
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I posted some pictures in this thread a few months back to help a member see how good the eye relief was on the TA45-2 was/is.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=102167


Without bright sunlight or relatively dark skies, the ACOG illuminates about what you show.

Completely normal, IMO. I wouldn't send it in, but that's me.

Hope those pictures help.

Tom
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  #18  
Old 08-28-2012, 8:52 PM
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Those are all brighter than what I have, and all in a room putting off less light.

I think I'll risk sending it in. Worst that will happen is that either 1) I'll be given the option to pay for repairs, or 2) I'll waste 3 weeks and $20 in shipping. Best case, they fix it for free, which I have read plenty about on the net that Trijicon will do even for 2nd hand ACOGs, given appropriate circumstances.

Thanks for all the replies!
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Old 09-01-2012, 3:05 AM
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They will submit the tritium to a test. Usually in a dark room to check for brightness level. If it fails they will replace it at no cost if it died out prematurely. If its an old scope manufactured a while ago don't be surprised if they just send you a new scope. I had an old TA11 that I bought used and wanted to get the tritium replaced with a new one along with different reticle. I paid for the new internals and instead of them replacing my internals on my old scope. They just sent me a brand new scope with the color and reticle I wanted. But that does not mean it happens all the time. It just happened to me. You might not get the same result I did.
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Old 09-01-2012, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warhawk014 View Post
They will submit the tritium to a test. Usually in a dark room to check for brightness level. If it fails they will replace it at no cost if it died out prematurely. If its an old scope manufactured a while ago don't be surprised if they just send you a new scope. I had an old TA11 that I bought used and wanted to get the tritium replaced with a new one along with different reticle. I paid for the new internals and instead of them replacing my internals on my old scope. They just sent me a brand new scope with the color and reticle I wanted. But that does not mean it happens all the time. It just happened to me. You might not get the same result I did.
That's kind of what I'm hoping for. I just hope they find that it is unusually dim. The weird thing is that the tritium night illum is fine. Glows the same amount as my TA31. But during the daytime, or especially inside under artificial/indirectlight inside of buildings, it's very dim. I went to compare mine to a Trijicon Reflex with Amber Illum and it was night and day! It glowed bright yellow in the same light and my was dim orange.

How much did they charge you, if you dont mind me asking?
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  #21  
Old 09-01-2012, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Itís so easy to spot a fake ACOG itís not even funny... just look through it. If the OP already has an ACOG, he should know if itís the real deal or not.

Iím going to say itís the Amber color... Kind of my least favorite color trijicon has to offer. Itís not that bright in general and its harder for my eyes to pick up.

I have a TA31F Red ChevronÖ I think Red and Green are really easy for the eye to pick up, Green even more than Red.

Itís also has to do with your own eyes too.. Some people just have trouble with some colors.

I donít think there is anything wrong with it, itís just the color and the way its picked up by the eye.
Not anymore..The chinese are putting out some absolutely convincing replicas now...With some the only way to tell is to check the tritium in a dark room (they apparently cant get tritium) and/or some of the others forgot to etch the 4x32 or whatever magnification on the internals that you can only see whem looking through the optic. I only buy these from reputable dealers now after the last fiasco..
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Old 09-02-2012, 3:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMTluvr View Post
Not anymore..The chinese are putting out some absolutely convincing replicas now...With some the only way to tell is to check the tritium in a dark room (they apparently cant get tritium) and/or some of the others forgot to etch the 4x32 or whatever magnification on the internals that you can only see whem looking through the optic. I only buy these from reputable dealers now after the last fiasco..
Sorry, but if you look through a Fake ACOG and a real ACOG, even if it had the fiber optic illumination.....you can easily tell a fake one from a real one on the glass quality and construction alone. Fakes have nowhere near the quality glass that real ACOG do, and that is something you just cant fake because good glass is expensive!

Not everyone has a discerning eye for that kinda stuff though.
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Old 09-02-2012, 7:48 PM
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Lot of opinions here, but I'd say it's the color. The function of the scope is pretty fool proof.
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Old 10-04-2012, 2:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodlookin1 View Post
Sorry, but if you look through a Fake ACOG and a real ACOG, even if it had the fiber optic illumination.....you can easily tell a fake one from a real one on the glass quality and construction alone. Fakes have nowhere near the quality glass that real ACOG do, and that is something you just cant fake because good glass is expensive!

Not everyone has a discerning eye for that kinda stuff though.
My eyes are quite discerning and my attention to detail is what clued me in to begin with.. Unless you've put you're hands on every different acog clone china has to offer this is still a matter of opinion, not fact. China has in fact improved they're reverse engineering and unfortunately strive to make the clone as " realistic" as possible.
Some coworkers bought ta01 clones direct from china and swear by them. Mounted on they're weapons hold zero after hundreds of rounds etc. would I do that? Not so much. But the fact that they're holding zero and hitting with accuracy would lead me to believe the chicoms are upping they're copyright infringing game.
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  #25  
Old 10-04-2012, 3:10 PM
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LMTluvr, do you own a real ACOG?

Have you compared them side by side?

Is the glass and field of view the same with the Chinese ones?

I've compared my ACOG to my buddies CHICOG that was made to look nearly identical to my ACOG... looking through them... the difference was MASSIVE.
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Old 10-05-2012, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK Dave View Post
LMTluvr, do you own a real ACOG?

Have you compared them side by side?

Is the glass and field of view the same with the Chinese ones?

I've compared my ACOG to my buddies CHICOG that was made to look nearly identical to my ACOG... looking through them... the difference was MASSIVE.
Exactly: Crystal clear glass, no chromatic abberation at the edges, reticle glows in pitch black (cant clone that without radioactive material or batteries), quality control.....i'm telling you, they are easily identifiable if you know what to look for.

LMTLuvr, I dont doubt that they are getting better at cloning.....but it will never be the same as the real thing. At least not at the price they are selling them for, and even then I doubt it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 5:59 PM
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By the way, just as an update: Last I called Trijicon, they had the scope in the repair department and was currently "in process of being repaired", so yes....it's real, and apparently it is bad enough that they are taking care of it without cost to me (I havent had to pay anything yet).

Crossing my fingers they are not going to hold it hostage and make me pay before sending it back....that would be lame.
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Old 10-05-2012, 9:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodlookin1 View Post
By the way, just as an update: Last I called Trijicon, they had the scope in the repair department and was currently "in process of being repaired", so yes....it's real, and apparently it is bad enough that they are taking care of it without cost to me (I havent had to pay anything yet).

Crossing my fingers they are not going to hold it hostage and make me pay before sending it back....that would be lame.
Glad Trijicon is taking care of you.

I seriously doubt that they would perform any work with the intent to charge you without having you approve it first.
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Old 10-08-2012, 9:28 AM
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For reference, here's mine at 6 years old:

And from a dark room looking into bright light
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Press Check View Post
Glad Trijicon is taking care of you.

I seriously doubt that they would perform any work with the intent to charge you without having you approve it first.
Just called Trijicon today for an update: IT SHIPPED! They fixed it, no questions asked and no payment required. I bought it second hand, told them as much, received the email back with the RMA # and a message that said "warranty is void if not original purchaser" and basically "you will pay for ALL repairs", called about a month later and they said it was being repaired, then called today and found out I'll have it by Thurs! They: Cleaned the internal lens, recharged the tritium, recharged the nitrogen, replaced the internal prism, and one other adjustment that I didnt understand.

Basically a brand new acog coming back to me! Now that's a company that stands by its product. Glad my other two scopes are ACOGs as well!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Standard View Post
For reference, here's mine at 6 years old:
Not bad at all, considering its' age and lighting conditions. Mine would have been invisible against the wood in the background of the second picture!
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  #31  
Old 10-09-2012, 12:57 PM
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Nice

I hope I never have to send my ACOG in for repair, but im glad to hear they took care of it.

Post the after picts when you can.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:10 AM
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Just got it back today! Here's the updated pic comparison. Same light, same spot, same camera, no Photoshop or anything other than a crop and resize. BIG difference, and even more so in person.

Before:


After:
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  #33  
Old 10-11-2012, 10:57 AM
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That looks right.
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Old 10-11-2012, 1:32 PM
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Looks awesome. Congrats on a successful outcome.
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