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Ladies Forum A place for our female Calgunners to discuss, share and interact without the 'excess attention' sometimes found in online forums.

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  #1  
Old 08-18-2012, 10:52 AM
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Default Women against guns :(

I love to ride my bike and belong to an online women's cycling forum. It has lots of great info on all things cycling and I have really enjoyed reading the posts.

Yesterday a woman posted about staying safe while riding solo. She wanted to know what she could do to stay safe. One woman responded that she has been eyeing holsters that she could wear while out riding. This was, naturally, met with all kinds of criticism. I chimed in and put in a gentle word for firearms being a valid choice. Of course there were all manner of responses that indicated this would be paranoid, overkill, maybe you should just move if you feel you have to be armed, etc. Why are there so many women who are against guns? Why would they disdain the one tool that would make them equal to a stronger, violent man? Why do I have to worry that my belief that I have the right to defend myself will alienate me from so-called educated, smart women?

I decided to risk being flayed and below is my response:

******"Lots of thought-provoking responses to the OP on this thread! In turn, it has made me think more about the subject as I read the responses. The more I turn it over in my mind, the simple fact is: victims of violent crime didn't expect to BE victims of violent crime. Otherwise, they would not have been at that place or doing that activity or trusting that person. So, what happens if you can't just simply avoid an evil person?

I know people who have been attacked in broad daylight in grocery store parking lots in "nice" parts of town, and maybe you do, too. The undertone of some of the posts is that it is overkill or paranoid of a woman to be legally carrying a gun. Well, I don't know, is that really a fair statement? I know that it is highly unlikely that my house will burn down, but I have smoke detectors. I know that odds are I will complete my errands without being in a car accident, but I still wear a seat belt every time I go. I don't think that makes me paranoid. I think it makes me prepared.

Fear of firearms is also expressed - I might shoot myself, etc. I have big, huge kitchen knives that assist me to whip up a mean dinner for DH when he walks in the door. Do I worry that they are potentially lethal weapons and that I might hurt myself using them? No. Because I'm careful, responsible, and I know how to use the knives. And I feel the same way about my own gun. I'm careful, responsible and I know exactly how to use it.

The OP's original statement was this:" But I would want to do everything in my power to ensure my safety." We owe her an honest response. However we personally feel about guns, they are the great equalizer. A gun in the hands of a 75 year old woman makes her more powerful than a 20 year old violent man. Just like any other potentially dangerous tool we use (cars, knives, chemicals, etc), we need to know how to use them properly and safely and obey the laws that govern them.

The goal of my response is to provoke further thought and not emotional responses. 2012 was the year I had to confront my thoughts about firearms (never having had one or wanted one or needed one before). I realize a gun isn't the answer for everyone, but let's do try to consider all of our options to keep ourselves safe."***************

I get nervous because I know I'm about to be attacked over this, but I care about misinformation being circulated MORE. So, good thing I have you guys. I know you won't think I'm crazy/paranoid/overreacting.
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:57 AM
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Its really just fear and misunderstanding with most people/women.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by spetsnaz View Post
Its really just fear and misunderstanding with most people/women.
I concur. The media portray guns with a correlation to violence, crime, and death. When my mom found out I was a gun owner, she didn't approve. The same with my girlfriend and sister. I took them with me to BLM and the range a couple of times and now they understand that it's a hobby. Now, they're always on my case telling me to take them. I blame the media for spreading misinformation.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:07 AM
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Interesting.

Among the people I've encountered in my travels, women seem to be the most squared away regarding firearms. They shoot better at the range, they pick guns which fit them and not because Tactical Dude Monthly said it's the bees knees;and nearly every girl ive known understood the basic realities of self defense regardless of their political perspective.


A girl I dated from New York City understood the necessity of why I carry a gun even though she personally hated weapons.When stating that I carry a handgun every woman ive met said something along the lines of "No problem, you need to protect yourself". A friend's wife said once when I told her about my being armed that in fact she felt quite safe, since the odds of her being attacked and raped declined significantly in my presence.She complained about a pal's shotguns in her living room once, so that was a bit of a shock.

The guys ive met were an altogether more deplorable case. "You don't need a gun","Is that thing loaded", "my ninja martial arts skill means I don't need a gun" "Knives are better" and other such hoplophobic nonsense.

Last edited by SilverTauron; 08-18-2012 at 11:10 AM..
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  #5  
Old 08-18-2012, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by spetsnaz View Post
Its really just fear and misunderstanding with most people/women.
Respectfully, I think it is more than fear and misunderstanding. There are so many women who encamp in the "anti" group. Their reasons are flawed, but they choose the anti-gun theory anyway. They believe being strong and educated means being against all violence - even in self-defense situations! It's a lot of fluff and very little substance, but it's popular stuff with a lot of women. I know there are women out there who embrace shooting and love the idea of being protected, but I just seem to know more women in the former group than the latter. I do think the news headlines are reporting more females empowering themselves by knowing how to use guns and that is wonderful, but we have a long way to go. I know even in my own neighborhood there are women who think less of me because I have my own gun and love the thing. It's sad. So sad.

Today the news headlines came out saying the missing college student in Louisiana was murdered by a sex offender who has now confessed. She did everything she could to fight back, including disarming her attacker of his knife and using it to slash at his hands. She even faked death for a bit, so as to re-arm herself with his knife. But ultimately, he, the stronger one, won after he physically overpowered her, stabbed her and then shot her in the head. How could this story have ended differently if she had been carrying a gun? When will people in this country wake up and accept that guns are lifesavers in the hands of good people?
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  #6  
Old 08-18-2012, 2:45 PM
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I think you posted a great response. There will be those, both male & female, that will never agree with you regardless of the stats or how logical your argument is. You are on the right side, stand tall!

Scott
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Old 08-18-2012, 2:55 PM
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I love that your response was so well written and even-toned, with solid and reasonable parallels drawn between guns and other safety equipment. Although quite a few anti-gun people will automatically close their minds against your post, and probably flame you for writing it, I think it is exactly this kind of calm logic that has the best chance of getting those on the fence to consider the idea of being responsible for their own protection.

Nice work!
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Old 08-18-2012, 3:25 PM
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Thank you, all. The gun community is full of great people who are willing to support, knowledge-share, and admonish when needed. I love being part of it! Thanks again.
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Old 08-18-2012, 3:42 PM
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My girlfriend, though not truly anti-gun, did have the 'you don't need a gun' attitude before I took her shooting. It was the fear/misunderstanding combo but after I took her out to shoot she is comfortable having the guns around and actually says she doesn't like it when I go away for the weekend and take my guns because she doesn't feel safe.

This is common with most people that don't like guns. They don't like them because they don't understand how they work and have never shot one, but once you take them out to shoot, a lot of them tend to change their attitude, and some of them will either want to go out again or want to get their own.
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Old 08-18-2012, 4:24 PM
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very well worded! can i quote you to my anti- friends?
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  #11  
Old 08-18-2012, 5:43 PM
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Quote:
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very well worded! can i quote you to my anti- friends?
Most certainly, Dear!
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Old 08-18-2012, 6:12 PM
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thank you, Glock Girl!

Sunday, this is not OT nor is this a political thread. it is the Ladies Forum and was created to allow the women of calguns to communicate w/o all the testosterone posturing that occurs in OT. however, since you opened that door, i would note that many men like the government to take care of them. if you'd care to talk about that, please start a thread over in OT.

eta: please read the note to Sunday, mustache......you are so out of line in the Ladies Forum i'm about to hit the mod button.
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"Her hands, her comfort, her confidence, her choice.", Mr K re buying a gun for a woman.

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Old 08-19-2012, 12:05 AM
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Great points made Glock Girl. Ones that may actually get some of those anti's (who don't really know why they don't like guns) to honestly think about the subject.

And the whole smoke alarms/seat belts part is great and something I will use in my future pro-2A debates.

Hope you don't get flamed too bad on your cycling forum.
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:16 AM
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I'd bet $20 that if you were having this same discussion in person with 25 of those people, you would get the same responses.

Then in private afterwards, 10 of them would want to talk to you to get more information because they realize they are responsible for their own safety.
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Old 08-19-2012, 6:09 AM
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Very well put, good job.

I read your post over there and so far, no flaming.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:27 AM
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Very well thought out and concise points in your statement. Your analogies are strong and the logic is sound. Unfortunately, some people will be mentally incapable of accepting the facts. Hoplophobia makes rational thought on the issue impossible. These same people pay a fortune for insurance "just in case" but, just can't apply the same reasoning to firearms. You shined a very bright light on a dark corner of ignorance. Not everyone will thank you for it. People don't like having their preconceived notions challenged as effectively as you just did; However, it is that effectiveness that will get some of them thinking.

I think a large part of it is that Humans are social creatures and they don't like to stick out from the herd. Put three people in a room and two of them will come to hate the third. The one that sticks out tends to get ostracized by the rest. It takes courage to stand up to a crowd of your peers and voice an unpopular opinion. I applaud your efforts. If even one woman takes pause and decides to protect herself with a firearm, it was worth it.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:55 AM
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Well done
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Old 08-19-2012, 7:44 PM
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Very nice, well-worded, logical response. All too often it seems the anti's don't want to apply logic and reason to the argument. Hopefully your analogies get some folks thinking.

I too am a cyclist, and have thought about how I might carry on the bike, although I haven't researched it too much. If you've come across anything good, would you mind PM'ing me?

-Stacy
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Old 08-19-2012, 8:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stacym View Post
Very nice, well-worded, logical response. All too often it seems the anti's don't want to apply logic and reason to the argument. Hopefully your analogies get some folks thinking.

I too am a cyclist, and have thought about how I might carry on the bike, although I haven't researched it too much. If you've come across anything good, would you mind PM'ing me?

-Stacy
Hi Stacy! I sent two websites to the lady on the cycling forum that asked about holsters for a bike and she said she was able to find one that would work off one of the sites. Www.corneredcat.com and www.wellarmedwoman.com. All the best! GG
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:18 PM
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It must be that I am in Arizona but I have noticed that a number of the women that are operating motorcycles and ridding as passengers are open carrying. Women in my office also talk about carrying concealed and defending themselves. I also see a lot more women in gunshops buying guns and asking the staff for advice about handguns for concealed carry.

Again, this is what I notice since I live in Arizona. I used to live in California so I entirely understand your sentiment.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:42 PM
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Part of it probably stems from the fact that women tend to be home and watch the news more (as well as the fact that shooting and other outdoors activities have been considered more of a male activity) and the news portrays them as what "bad guys use to do bad things." All of these stigmas are hard to lose. Please update with the responses you get, because I would be interested to read them
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:52 PM
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tagged for responses, great job!
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Old 08-20-2012, 1:17 AM
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Way to make them think GlockGirl.
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Old 08-20-2012, 5:43 AM
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have you had a response to your statement yet ?
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Old 08-20-2012, 7:58 AM
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Thanks again for all the support, everyone. Love gun people. Love them.

I haven't had one woman even try to dismantle what I said. Maybe because they dislike contentious debate on the forum, maybe because they are indifferent, or maybe because they don't want to engage someone (me) that they have written off as crazy. Whatever the case, the good news is that a couple of pro-gunners were brave enough to chime in after my statement. I'm attaching the forum thread so you can see for yourself. Note at the beginning when the woman who brings up guns in the first place is totally chastised by "Tulip" and then "Crankin" rushes in to second her sentiment. That was when I decided to speak up.
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=48622
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Old 08-20-2012, 9:09 AM
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or maybe you provided food for thought that can't be discredited....it really as well written.
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Old 08-20-2012, 9:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock Girl in CA View Post
Thanks again for all the support, everyone. Love gun people. Love them.

I haven't had one woman even try to dismantle what I said. Maybe because they dislike contentious debate on the forum, maybe because they are indifferent, or maybe because they don't want to engage someone (me) that they have written off as crazy. Whatever the case, the good news is that a couple of pro-gunners were brave enough to chime in after my statement. I'm attaching the forum thread so you can see for yourself. Note at the beginning when the woman who brings up guns in the first place is totally chastised by "Tulip" and then "Crankin" rushes in to second her sentiment. That was when I decided to speak up.
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=48622
That was a great response to their comments.

Its interesting and scary to read through some of the posts in that thread. What's scary to me is that people (men included) think that if they tell people where they are going and what time they should be there, they will somehow be "safe". However by the time someone realizes they are late, whatever bad things may have happened are already done. Reading through those responses, I notice a trend of women who seem to rely on others to keep them safe through the use of phones, etc. I actually have many women in my family who feel the same way against guns and when I was younger were very opposed to my father teaching me to shoot and allowing me to keep a gun in the house...they made sure my sister didnt get involved (and they're all die hard repubs).

That said, my wife (who happens to be liberal), loves guns, has a Glock and is a much better shot that I am...and only started back in March (makes me so proud!). Its interesting to see the looks and comments she gets from her other liberal friends when they find out she supports the "cause"
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:27 AM
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Their "dug in" position against firearms can only be described as ignorant, close-minded, or even dumb, by women who have experienced firearms and know differently.

But like those people (even here on CG) who are adamantly opposed to so many things, not because of personal knowledge, but because they've been conditioned to do so.

All it takes is one negative experience, say your son has good grades but not good enough for a full ride scholarship to a prestiges university. The first year you only need pay $20,000.00 of the $60,000.00 annual tuition. But the second year, a stumble in your credit causes your loan to be cancelled.

You can no longer secure the financing required to hold on to the scholarship. As you come to the realization that, despite your efforts, you can not change this fact, you will seek an answer to "why?"

Most people will turn to others (including media) and quickly adopt the scapegoat accepted within their circles. I say scapegoat because at this point we're not looking to investigate the sources and in the case of the media, they're counting on that.

So, illegal immigrants, Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, Conservatives, Wall Streeters, the poor, or any other group targeted by politicos as prime, become the reason your boy can't go to a prestiges university.

What the reasons cannot be is that you don't have the income, that you didn't save the college fund, or that you screwed up your credit at the wrong time. These cannot be the reasons because it would make you the cause of what amounts to epic failure in your mind.

You will not accept that your son could have attended any of the less expensive college option for FREE. That the first 2 years of college are basic courses that can be transferred to that prestiges university from most of the less expensive schools.

Most of all, you will not listen to those that would suggest such a thing. In fact, you will rail against anyone who would suggest that illegal aliens are not to blame, and you will list all of the quick points from the politicos you've adopted.

Why does a man go into a Sikh temple and cold bloodily murder men women and children thinking he's killing Terrorists?Because he doesn't know that the Sikhs are pro-gun, don't hate America, and work exceptionally hard to fit in.

And if you need proof of my position, just read some of the rhetoric in response to this posting. I have not expressed my own political position on any of the many issues I named here but you can bet that some individuals will immediately assume that I am an enemy.

They have to.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Glock Girl in CA View Post
Of course there were all manner of responses that indicated this would be paranoid, overkill, maybe you should just move if you feel you have to be armed, etc.
When I chose my gun, one of its uses was for home defense. I work from home, our front door is not visible from the street and there have been a series of day time knock-knock break ins not far from us.

I've been told that I'm paranoid and must live in a crappy area.

1) There wouldn't be much to steal in a crappy area, so the thieves go to nice middles class homes, where there's a greater chance that everyone will be at work and there's actually something worth stealing.

2) I'd rather be paranoid than pistol whipped or raped.

You're right, we take precautions every day. My mother unplugs her coffee maker when she's done using it and she locks her car door in case of accident or someone trying to get into her car at a stop sign/light. No one calls her paranoid. If you kept a baseball bat by the door, no one would call you paranoid. But, the moment you say "gun" suddenly you're .

I'm not sure why there's such a knee jerk, emotional reaction to it.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:45 AM
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People will always have a hard time negatively responding to a well written and balanced statement such as the one you made. Many others including myself can learn for this as well. Great job!
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:03 AM
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"Its interesting and scary to read through some of the posts in that thread. What's scary to me is that people (men included) think that if they tell people where they are going and what time they should be there, they will somehow be "safe". However by the time someone realizes they are late, whatever bad things may have happened are already done. Reading through those responses, I notice a trend of women who seem to rely on others to keep them safe through the use of phones, etc."


Oh, this is an excellent point! The ridiculousness of these women who are relying on someone to watch the "dot" on the computer screen in case anything goes wrong. Who's paranoid?

And let's not be proactive. A few said "let what happens happen" and, "Well, I would rather not live my life in fear." I'm supposed to be LESS afraid that I have no back-up plan? Because going out into the world unarmed and defenseless makes me morally superior to a responsible, armed woman with a plan?

And to top it off, one woman added the news article of that poor murdered college student and then said, "Weapons were involved." Was her point that weapons are evil and the cause of this incident? I think the victim could have really benefited from the use of a gun, folks. It would have been her golden ticket and her means to LIVE. Hardly an instrument of evil.

Scary stuff, Friends. Scary stuff.
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  #32  
Old 08-20-2012, 11:13 AM
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good post, loubot....

Glock Girl: really, someone is ok with "let what happens happen"? easy to say until you're the one on the floor in a pile of blood...... and if that is the case why want to drink clean water, wear safety belts, helmets when biking, etc?
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Glock Girl in CA View Post

And let's not be proactive. A few said "let what happens happen" and, "Well, I would rather not live my life in fear." I'm supposed to be LESS afraid that I have no back-up plan?

When I lived in CT, I worked at the Hartford Insurance Company. The building has been there for 200 + years and isn't going anywhere. At that time, one side of the complex was the border of gang territory. There were a multitude of rapes and muggings. I worked an odd shift which meant I was one of the last people in and out. My final straw was when I was in the parking lot and some guy got me cornered and started screaming at me that he needed money. Luckily, the security guard just happened to pull into the lot at that moment.

I went to my sister in law, who is a police officer....and she put me into the CCW classes. I carried that gun in my purse when I went to work.

A few months later I was telling her that all the freaks that used to harass me in the parking lots, had stopped and I couldn't figure out why. She said, "it's because you have a gun now." I replied back, "But, they don't know that." She gave me a smile, "You're right, but you know that you have one."

She went on to explain to me that how you carry yourself has a lot to do with whether you get marked as a target by a predator.

Last edited by MrsRazz; 08-20-2012 at 11:25 AM..
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Old 08-20-2012, 1:34 PM
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.......She went on to explain to me that how you carry yourself has a lot to do with whether you get marked as a target by a predator.

this is true with or without a gun. however, having a gun ups the factor, imo.

i used to work in a really bad area of Stockton. it was so bad the company sprang for self-defense classes and pepper spray for women as well as security escorts in the evening for female employees. i always say i got my street smarts in Stockton and those street smarts have served me well in and out of the US.
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"Her hands, her comfort, her confidence, her choice.", Mr K re buying a gun for a woman.

Gun Control:
"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt
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Old 08-20-2012, 1:43 PM
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I don't usually post in the Ladies Forum. I believe I lack the necessary hardware and like to respect the ladies' space. But I followed my wife in here. (3 guesses as to who she is)

I'd just like to add that there is peace in MY mind knowing that my spouse is doing what she can to not be a victim when I can't be there to protect her.
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Old 08-20-2012, 2:09 PM
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I think we're in the middle of a cultural shift concerning women and firearms. The last of the "Oh, big hairy man, protect me!" gang are phasing out. Women are more empowered than ever, and thousands inspired by the success of the womens shooting team at the Olympics.

For the more traditional woman, I think it's a matter of fear of upsetting the boys club, being mocked, fear of being seen as unfeminine and fear of actually hurting someone.

And I think there's a factor of truly not wanting to think about being vulnerable in their own homes.

Fear of hurting someone can be overcome by asking questions like " Would you hurt someone who's coming for your kids? Would you kill them?". Women get real strong real fast around those questions. Getting them to apply this to themselves is MUCH harder.

I challenge every Calguns woman to bring an anti-guns girlfriend to the Sacramento Gun show in November. Get her to watch safety demos, and get her to the Calguns booth. I'll be there and several other women, I think. And we'll tell her about carjacking, home invasion and ask her how far she would go for her kids. And ask her to vote.
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WHAT I HAVE LEARNED SO FAR, MOSTLY THE HARD WAY
Do only safe sex. Never have sex with someone crazier than you are.
Don't marry or move in together before you're both at least 25.
Don't have children until you're married five years or at least age 30.
Put 10% of your salary into savings every month no matter how broke you are.
Don't ever screw around with the IRS.
Keep a handgun on your bedside table.
Don't smart-mouth judges, or cops who stop you on the road.
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Old 08-20-2012, 2:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsRazz View Post
When I lived in CT, I worked at the Hartford Insurance Company. The building has been there for 200 + years and isn't going anywhere. At that time, one side of the complex was the border of gang territory. There were a multitude of rapes and muggings. I worked an odd shift which meant I was one of the last people in and out. My final straw was when I was in the parking lot and some guy got me cornered and started screaming at me that he needed money. Luckily, the security guard just happened to pull into the lot at that moment.

I went to my sister in law, who is a police officer....and she put me into the CCW classes. I carried that gun in my purse when I went to work.

A few months later I was telling her that all the freaks that used to harass me in the parking lots, had stopped and I couldn't figure out why. She said, "it's because you have a gun now." I replied back, "But, they don't know that." She gave me a smile, "You're right, but you know that you have one."

She went on to explain to me that how you carry yourself has a lot to do with whether you get marked as a target by a predator.
Yayyy. Act like you're hell on wheels and people believe it ! And carry.
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WHAT I HAVE LEARNED SO FAR, MOSTLY THE HARD WAY
Do only safe sex. Never have sex with someone crazier than you are.
Don't marry or move in together before you're both at least 25.
Don't have children until you're married five years or at least age 30.
Put 10% of your salary into savings every month no matter how broke you are.
Don't ever screw around with the IRS.
Keep a handgun on your bedside table.
Don't smart-mouth judges, or cops who stop you on the road.
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  #38  
Old 08-20-2012, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by movie zombie View Post
good post, loubot....

Glock Girl: really, someone is ok with "let what happens happen"? easy to say until you're the one on the floor in a pile of blood...... and if that is the case why want to drink clean water, wear safety belts, helmets when biking, etc?

I am pleasantly surprised.
I found this post on "new posts" not realizing it was from the women's forum.
The subject compelled me to write what I did and for the first time,
there weren't half a dozen angry people.

Thank you
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Old 08-20-2012, 4:36 PM
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Thank you Glock Girl for taking the time to 'drop knowledge' ! You get a golden star for the week!
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Old 08-20-2012, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock Girl in CA View Post
Why are there so many women who are against guns? Why would they disdain the one tool that would make them equal to a stronger, violent man?
It's because so many women choose to abdicate responsibility for their own personal safety... It's easier for them to let a man take care of that and then feel "morally superior" for simply choosing dependency.
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