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  #1  
Old 11-28-2012, 1:15 PM
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Default Too extreme??? Or best protection in woods?

Ok, I have been posting lots of questions and most say use 165gr or 180gr in my Glock 23. I agree totally for practice and just whatever. BUT, for protection in the woods while fishing and hiking what do you think about a 200gr bullet? I read on some other forums that recommend these:


Double Tap 200gr WFN-GC

For those .40 S&W fans that wanted a deep penetrating option for woods carry, here it is!

The 200gr FMJ-FP @ 1050fps from a Glock 23!

990fps 435 ft/lbs from a 3.5"bbl.

1100fps 538 ft/lbs from a 4.5"bbl.



Caliber : .40 S&W

Bullet : Full Metal Jacket Flat Point

Ballistics : 200gr. @ 1050fps / 490 ft/lbs- Glock 23 (4.0"bbl)

Box of 20rds.
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2012, 1:24 PM
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a 40 in the woods is marginal at best... go get a 10 or 44 if you want a woods gun. And Double Tap is notorious for lying about their specs..
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Old 11-28-2012, 1:32 PM
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10.5" .458SOCOM AR Pistol
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Old 11-28-2012, 1:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAMIbaseballer View Post
a 40 in the woods is marginal at best... go get a 10 or 44 if you want a woods gun. And Double Tap is notorious for lying about their specs..
Yep, just read they have been screwing up and sending out wrong ammo. But I am keeping the Glock 23 so trying to find the best ammo for the woods. Also, don't want to cause any problems with the gun itself.
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Old 11-28-2012, 2:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MIAMIbaseballer View Post
a 40 in the woods is marginal at best... go get a 10 or 44 if you want a woods gun. And Double Tap is notorious for lying about their specs..
why stop there. get your self a 45-70!
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2012, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trooper357 View Post
Yep, just read they have been screwing up and sending out wrong ammo. But I am keeping the Glock 23 so trying to find the best ammo for the woods. Also, don't want to cause any problems with the gun itself.
It's been happening an awful lot to be called a "screw up." I will never use Dt because they have lied to they customers. When I don't make my own, I'll stick with Buffalo Bore ammo.... You probably should too, if you want some hot loads....

I'm not a 40 fan or ever research 40, but here's probably your best bet...

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=117
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Last edited by MIAMIbaseballer; 11-28-2012 at 2:14 PM..
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Old 11-28-2012, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by trooper357 View Post
Yep, just read they have been screwing up and sending out wrong ammo. But I am keeping the Glock 23 so trying to find the best ammo for the woods. Also, don't want to cause any problems with the gun itself.
It's not screwing up if they keep doing it.

I use Buffalo Bore 180 grain for the woods and Underwood 180 grain TMJ for paper.
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Old 11-28-2012, 2:29 PM
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I would never go into the woods carrying anything less than a 12G AOW.
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2012, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by stilly View Post
Best woods carry if you want a light pistol IS a good 10mm load or a 44 mag but 44 IS heavy for a semi auto, I have been reading a lot more about how a 10mm is GREAT for even hunting DEER with.

You want that kind of power? Get an EAA Witness in 10mm and then you can buy any conversion kits you want for it from them, turn it into a 9, 40, 45, .22lr, If they sell it you can get it. Then you will have a very versatile and lightweight handgun for wood protection. 10 rounds or more of 10 mill coming at you HOT is gonna be a day ruiner.

ALL of this is only my uneducated opinion. Once I have a witness I will start testing it out.

I dunno if you can simply get a 10mm upper for a G-23 I think the frame is too small for 10mm but what do I know...
I actually wanted the 10mm but it did not come in a medium frame, only large and small. I didn't like the small and didn't want a large heavy gun for fishing and hiking so the trade-off was the .40 G-23. So now I want to try and find the best woods ammo for just in case. Probably never have to use it but I will feel a little safer.
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2012, 3:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
Best woods carry if you want a light pistol IS a good 10mm load or a 44 mag but 44 IS heavy for a semi auto, I have been reading a lot more about how a 10mm is GREAT for even hunting DEER with.

You want that kind of power? Get an EAA Witness in 10mm and then you can buy any conversion kits you want for it from them, turn it into a 9, 40, 45, .22lr, If they sell it you can get it. Then you will have a very versatile and lightweight handgun for wood protection. 10 rounds or more of 10 mill coming at you HOT is gonna be a day ruiner.

ALL of this is only my uneducated opinion. Once I have a witness I will start testing it out.

I dunno if you can simply get a 10mm upper for a G-23 I think the frame is too small for 10mm but what do I know...
Be careful with the EAA. Some people love them and have zero problems and others can't stand them because of all the problems. I'll stick with my G20 personally. You can not put a 10mm slide on a G23, but you can on a G21. Then you have 45 and 10 if you wanted to go that route. I love my G20 and will be getting the Gen 4 when I can get my hands on one!
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Old 11-28-2012, 3:42 PM
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Capacity counts.

I might be one of the few people around who has shot something that kept coming.

My animal did wince when shot. After 5 or so winces, it reassessed. I was empty, it was defeated, but not dead. It might be around now.

Since then, I don't leave the house with less than 20.
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Old 11-28-2012, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Capacity counts.

I might be one of the few people around who has shot something that kept coming.

My animal did wince when shot. After 5 or so winces, it reassessed. I was empty, it was defeated, but not dead. It might be around now.

Since then, I don't leave the house with less than 20.
I think that's why you get the extra clip when you buy a Glock.......
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Old 11-28-2012, 3:48 PM
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.44 mag for bear is what I use . . .
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Old 11-28-2012, 3:50 PM
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.44 mag for bear is what I use . . .
If I could only get it to work in my G-23.
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Old 11-28-2012, 4:35 PM
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I think that's why you get the extra clip when you buy a Glock.......
You actually don't get any "clips" with a Glock, but you do get magazines
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Old 11-28-2012, 4:54 PM
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I have a primitive cabin in the redwood forest in northern California. We spend 3-4 weeks a year out there. Cougars are present on a regular basis, and occasionally a small black bear. Although I do take an 18" break open single barrel 12 gage shotgun, the only times in the last 34 years that I had to present a weapon was for human intruders, and not animals..
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Old 11-28-2012, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by stilly View Post
Damn and here I thought it would all be a bowl of cherries after I jumped through all the hoops...

WAIT a sec. You are telling ME that I can slap a 10mm upper on my G-21?

You mean like this?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=319133077

And it WORKS??? Oh wow, I never explored that possibility. Well, that is certainly cheaper than an EAA...
I believe Storm Lake still makes a conversion barrel from G21 to 10mm, so you don't really need to buy the whole slide. If you go that way, maybe pick up a 22lb recoil spring and stainless rod to help slow the slide down.

Like here: http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip...%26_Barrels%2F

You will need G20 magazines as well.
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Last edited by Bill Steele; 11-28-2012 at 6:49 PM..
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Old 11-28-2012, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MIAMIbaseballer View Post
You actually don't get any "clips" with a Glock, but you do get magazines
Yep, u r right. I had a brain fart back to my army days. 1969 was a long time ago. I hate getting old.
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Old 11-29-2012, 5:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Steele View Post
I believe Storm Lake still makes a conversion barrel from G21 to 10mm, so you don't really need to buy the whole slide. If you go that way, maybe pick up a 22lb recoil spring and stainless rod to help slow the slide down.

Like here: http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip...%26_Barrels%2F

You will need G20 magazines as well.
Yes they do make a conversation barrel. That is much cheaper than buying a new gun. I wouldn't go with that heavy of a spring unless you're only running full powder 200gr+ loads. I would try the stock 17lb spring and go from there depending on the bullets your using.... I use my stock spring with HOT 135-220gr loads with zero issues....
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Old 11-29-2012, 8:09 AM
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Originally Posted by MIAMIbaseballer View Post
Yes they do make a conversation barrel. That is much cheaper than buying a new gun. I wouldn't go with that heavy of a spring unless you're only running full powder 200gr+ loads. I would try the stock 17lb spring and go from there depending on the bullets your using.... I use my stock spring with HOT 135-220gr loads with zero issues....
I find the Glockmeister 22lb spring and stainless guide rod useful, even on my G20SF. It keeps the slide off the frame under recoil when shooting full 10mm loads and still allows the gun to function 100% when shooting 40S&W rounds. The G21 slide is lighter than the G20 slide, so frame battering will happen under full power 10mm loads (and beyond) unless you move up in spring weight.
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Old 11-29-2012, 8:24 AM
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If I could only get it to work in my G-23.

You got me there! What I meant was that it is the least I'd be comfortable with for bear
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Steele View Post
I find the Glockmeister 22lb spring and stainless guide rod useful, even on my G20SF. It keeps the slide off the frame under recoil when shooting full 10mm loads and still allows the gun to function 100% when shooting 40S&W rounds. The G21 slide is lighter than the G20 slide, so frame battering will happen under full power 10mm loads (and beyond) unless you move up in spring weight.
Makes sense... What kind of loads are you using (grain wise and how hot)?
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:23 AM
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Makes sense... What kind of loads are you using (grain wise and how hot)?
For 10mm, I load 180gr jacketed pretty much exclusively (XTP/HAP/PD). For everyday use I stay in the 1250-1300fps range. I find myself loading fewer and fewer "nuclear" batches these days, too much case inspection time.

For 40S&W loads (most would refer to these style loads as "plinking"), I use 180gr PD JFP's and Xtreme plated FP. These generally are in the 900-1000fps range.

Some fun.

BTW, I think the factory dual spring setup as I have on my G29SF's and comes with the Gen 4 G20 to be the ultimate solution for 10mm loads. No matter how hot I run the 10mm loads in my G29SF, I get no slide to frame contact. One of these days I will swap my 2 G20SF's for Gen 4 models, and say goodbye to my aftermarket springs.

Sorry to the OP for the hijack, it is just so hard not to talk about 10mm...
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Steele View Post
For 10mm, I load 180gr jacketed pretty much exclusively (XTP/HAP/PD). For everyday use I stay in the 1250-1300fps range. I find myself loading fewer and fewer "nuclear" batches these days, too much case inspection time.

For 40S&W loads (most would refer to these style loads as "plinking"), I use 180gr PD JFP's and Xtreme plated FP. These generally are in the 900-1000fps range.

Some fun.

BTW, I think the factory dual spring setup as I have on my G29SF's and comes with the Gen 4 G20 to be the ultimate solution for 10mm loads. No matter how hot I run the 10mm loads in my G29SF, I get no slide to frame contact. One of these days I will swap my 2 G20SF's for Gen 4 models, and say goodbye to my aftermarket springs.

Sorry to the OP for the hijack, it is just so hard not to talk about 10mm...
I'll PM you...

OP.... Buffalo Bore is your answer....
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:15 AM
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Buffalo Bore C23 FMJ-FN 180gr looks good.


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I'll PM you...

OP.... Buffalo Bore is your answer....
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:27 AM
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Buffalo Bore C23 FMJ-FN 180gr looks good.
Yep... that flat nose will do some good damage... I carry flat nose in my 380.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=117
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MIAMIbaseballer View Post
Yep... that flat nose will do some good damage... I carry flat nose in my 380.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=117
What freaked me was the warning regarding the Glock 23. But that apparently was meant for the older Glocks.
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  #28  
Old 11-29-2012, 12:59 PM
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.454 CASSUL IS SO MUCH BETTER !!!HOPE YOU FOUND WHAT YOU NEEDED
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:11 PM
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unless in bear country nothing more than whats needed for people that said I carry a 4 inch S&W 44 mag
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:05 AM
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Hard cast lead bullets work great in pistols to punch through heavy bone and critters

Polygonal rifling does not like lead for some reason.

As the .40 is a high pressure round, I would be nervous to shoot lead from the G23.

I know that people shoot hard cast reloads from glocks with the factory barrel and have not had issues

I would still shy away from lead out of a factory glock barrel.
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Old 11-30-2012, 5:37 AM
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Hard cast lead bullets work great in pistols to punch through heavy bone and critters

Polygonal rifling does not like lead for some reason.

As the .40 is a high pressure round, I would be nervous to shoot lead from the G23.

I know that people shoot hard cast reloads from glocks with the factory barrel and have not had issues

I would still shy away from lead out of a factory glock barrel.
Depends on the lead load.... no problems with Buffalo Bore in my guns. Buffalo Bore hc is not an ammo you blow through hundreds of rounds with. It's a defensive ammo. Shoot some and see if it works, check your barrel, and carry it...
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Old 11-30-2012, 6:49 AM
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If I were worried about running afoul of an angry bear while varmint hunting or fishing I'd be carrying this or its sibling a Ruger Super Redhawk both chambered for .480 Ruger:



Indeed, I have done just that. The downside is these are full sized revolvers, their weight requires a custom rig and suspenders. The .480 Ruger will completely penetrate a bear, elk or bison, with both jacketed and cast bullets, so there is no need for high capacity. The .480 Ruger with 370-400 grain cast bullets is right on the heels of .45-70 factory ammo, no slouch in the knockdown department. If an attacking bear isn't stopped or slowed with the first or second shot, they can move a lot faster than I can. My alternative carry revolver would be a 6" .45 Colt Anaconda, a lighter burden. When loaded with ammo for modern revolvers it is fully the equal of a .44 Magnum. I could also use my Ruger Redhawk in .44 Magnum, a complete toss-up. I have been mulling over sending one of these to Magnaport International for a custom conversion to a 4-5/8" barreled version, but procrastination is my fault.

My opinion is that semi-autos are not ideal for big angry animals intent on mayhem. Gary Reeder, the smith that made the 5 shot .480 Ruger conversion in the photo, tells of a grizzly bear that attacked him as he slept in his camp tent one night. He managed to grab his .44 Magnum next to him and unload the cylinder into the bear on top of him. The bear had the decency to expire before Reeder was seriously injured, but it certainly points out that instant bear death from a handgun is a sometimes thing, even when the muzzle is inches from touching the bear. Very few auto loading cartridges have that level of power. Better than nothing? Sure, but when hunting or fishing where big bears roam, I would want something with more knockdown insurance.

Then, my experience with handguns is primarily with heavy magnum revolvers and single shots used in two decades of IHMSA Silhouette competition, so that's what I am familiar with. A man that knows his pistol is far safer with it than without, no matter what it is.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MIAMIbaseballer View Post
Depends on the lead load.... no problems with Buffalo Bore in my guns. Buffalo Bore hc is not an ammo you blow through hundreds of rounds with. It's a defensive ammo. Shoot some and see if it works, check your barrel, and carry it...
Ok, so this is safe to shoot out of my G23:
Buffalo Bore ITEM 23C/20
180 gr. FMJ-FN (1100 fps/ME 484 ft lbs)

But need to make sure I clean the barrel after use!
I would not use it as a normal range ammo with exception
to fire a few rounds to understand how it feels and shoots.
Other than that and self defense in the woods I would use
165gr and 185gr standard range ammo. I thought the
FMJ or FMC were all ok for the Glock barrel?
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:46 AM
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Ok, so this is safe to shoot out of my G23:
Buffalo Bore ITEM 23C/20
180 gr. FMJ-FN (1100 fps/ME 484 ft lbs)

But need to make sure I clean the barrel after use!
I would not use it as a normal range ammo with exception
to fire a few rounds to understand how it feels and shoots.
Other than that and self defense in the woods I would use
165gr and 185gr standard range ammo. I thought the
FMJ or FMC were all ok for the Glock barrel?
Sorry bro...... shoot this stuff all you want. It's a FMJ. I thought it was a HC bullet..... This stuff is hot. So practice how you would play (rapid fire like a charging animal).
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MIAMIbaseballer View Post
Sorry bro...... shoot this stuff all you want. It's a FMJ. I thought it was a HC bullet..... This stuff is hot. So practice how you would play (rapid fire like a charging animal).
Kool..........thanks!
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  #36  
Old 11-30-2012, 1:04 PM
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1MAG1KiLL 1MAG1KiLL is offline
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200 grains probably wont stabilize as good as a 180, so maybe lost of accuracy you should test fire before relying on it
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Old 11-30-2012, 1:12 PM
trooper357 trooper357 is offline
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200 grains probably wont stabilize as good as a 180, so maybe lost of accuracy you should test fire before relying on it
Kind of scratched the 200gr and instead going to try some of this:

Buffalo Bore ITEM 23C/20
180 gr. FMJ-FN (1100 fps/ME 484 ft lbs)
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  #38  
Old 11-30-2012, 5:58 PM
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tankerman tankerman is offline
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Why, can't you load your own?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAMIbaseballer View Post
Depends on the lead load.... no problems with Buffalo Bore in my guns. Buffalo Bore hc is not an ammo you blow through hundreds of rounds with. It's a defensive ammo. Shoot some and see if it works, check your barrel, and carry it...
Why would I want to buy ammo from Buffalo Bore that costs an arm and a leg....and according to you you don't shoot hundreds of rounds with, so you don't even bother practicing a legit amount with ammo that you say is for defensive purposes.

Sounds pretty lame to me.




I shoot 400+ grain hardcast out of my 454 that I roll myself. It will fully penetrate any animal in the US and doesn't cost a ****load.....so I actually get to practice with it.
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Old 11-30-2012, 7:43 PM
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When I'm in the woods where bears are present, I carry a S&W 500 with a 350 grain bullet.
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  #40  
Old 11-30-2012, 7:51 PM
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MIAMIbaseballer MIAMIbaseballer is offline
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Why, can't you load your own?


Why would I want to buy ammo from Buffalo Bore that costs an arm and a leg....and according to you you don't shoot hundreds of rounds with, so you don't even bother practicing a legit amount with ammo that you say is for defensive purposes.

Sounds pretty lame to me.
You can.... When did I say you can't load your own? The OP did not ask about loading, he asked about factory ammo.

Why don't I? Because I live in Miami 10.5 months of the year in a high rize and my reloading equipment is at my house in Ca. To you, it might cost "an arm and a leg," to me, it doesn't. I can mimic the load with a FMJ bullet that I do reload (when time and logistics permit), so I do not have to shoot lead through the barrel, and I can practice as much as I'd like.

Any other lame azz questions that have nothing to do with the OP?
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Last edited by MIAMIbaseballer; 11-30-2012 at 8:28 PM..
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