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  #1  
Old 08-03-2012, 1:56 PM
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Default SIG SAUER 1911 Problems

Hello out there, just posting some information about my experiences with Sig Customer service and the quality of their 1911 gunsmiths. Notably I am not a Sig hater, I have three P series guns (P220, P226, P239) and think these are great.

I purchased one of the first 1911 GSR railed models years ago. It was my first 1911 so I did not know much about 1911's then. I shot it some and by the first 500 rounds the frame cracked, directly behind the series 80 lever. The first generation 1911's have Caspian frames and there was an issue with these frames. I sent the pistol back to Sig Arms and they replaced the frame. I was happy at that time to get a replacement, cleaned and shot it one time and into the safe it went. This was about 2007.

The other day I had an issue with my 1911, some dented cases on ejection. I showed the pistol to the local range master/smith and he pointed out several slide to frame fit issues and a beavertail to frame fit problem. I called Sig Sauer CS to see if they considered Sig quality work and was shocked to find out that they had my gun listed as a CPO gun. I was never notified that the replacement was going to be a CPO gun.
FYI new Sig Sauer pistols carry a lifetime warranty.
Older models before a certain date when the warranty changed only have a 5 year warranty...but...
CPO guns only have a two year warranty.

Issue number 1.

All the members should be aware that if you buy a "new" sig sauer that is defective in its metallurgy and they replace part of the gun, especially the frame, you may get your new gun lifetime warranty reduced to a 2 year warranty and the serial number tagged "CPO" in their computer. This may happen and you will not even be notified of the CPO switch-o-rue. This happened to me. Even after contacting customer service (representative Andrew Plante, I informed him at the start of the conversation that I was going to post the outcome of our interaction and his name on multiple forums) they will not correct the CPO switch in the computer. I bought a new gun that was repaired under the new gun warranty, not a certified pre-owned gun.

Issue number 2

The gunsmith reviewed pictures of the out of spec areas and poorly fit gun parts/slide. They concluded that the gun was "in specifications" and met the quality standards of the Sig Sauer company. Pics included.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resi...28FFD7734A!136
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resi...28FFD7734A!138
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resi...28FFD7734A!137

You may want to keep the quality issues in mind before putting out big money for a Sig 1911. It is the current Sig 1911 gunsmith that thinks that this is adequate quality, not a gunsmith from several years ago.

I still like the gun and it shoots great. I will certainly keep it. But it is not a high end production 1911 like Sig claims.

I have a Kimber Stainless LE, Dan Wesson CBOB, Colt Defender, Colt XSE and Les Baer 1911. These are all better fit than this Sig. I have owned and sold a Dan Wesson PM7 and SA loaded 1911 that were both fit well.
Remember this was my first 1911. I did not really know what proper fit was supposed to be when they sent me this gun years ago. I have mainly kept this in the safe until recently, that is when I noticed the fitment issues.


This is my experience, posted for information only. Have a nice day- James
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2012, 2:09 PM
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No issues with mine. Looks like you got a lemon? And a CPO at that? :/
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Old 08-03-2012, 2:24 PM
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I dont have any experience with Sig 1911, but I do own Sig p226 9mm thou. One of the most reliable handgun I ever owned so far.
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2012, 2:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmythebrain View Post
You may want to keep the quality issues in mind before putting out big money for a Sig 1911. It is the current Sig 1911 gunsmith that thinks that this is adequate quality, not a gunsmith from several years ago.
Spending big money on something doesn't even mean you're going to be getting a better product these days. I forked out almost 2K when the dust settled for my Les Baer Custom Carry and I have a wobbling extractor that is poorly fitted.

600 rounds in my Custom Carry I had 10 failure to return to battery. My glock has about 2500 rounds through it with zero failures.

My $500 Glock has functioned better than my Custom Carry at this point.

It's going to Alchemy on Monday.
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Old 08-03-2012, 2:40 PM
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Nice one sig. Not the 1st thread I have read about sig quality control going down the drain.
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Old 08-03-2012, 3:03 PM
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I was told the Sig 1911's aren't mil spec. Any truth to this?
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  #7  
Old 08-03-2012, 3:17 PM
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Originally Posted by luckystrike View Post
Nice one sig. Not the 1st thread I have read about sig quality control going down the drain.
Because you don't hear much about the thousands and thousands of satisfied customers. Some lemons are bound to sneak through no matter how tight their QC is. And those who encounter those problems are going to be exponentially more vocal about it. Got about 1k rounds through my Nitron Rail. Fitment is tight and smooth and have had no failures. Love mine.



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  #8  
Old 08-03-2012, 4:01 PM
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I own a Sig Scorpion 1911 and haven't had any issues at all. Even shooting my own reloads. All of my buddies think it's accurate and reliable. Knock on wood. So far about 700ish rounds down the pipe.
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Old 08-03-2012, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by acolytes View Post
I was told the Sig 1911's aren't mil spec. Any truth to this?
OMG! Not "mil spec"!!

How can that be!!!!!




Seriously however-

If they where referring to the fact that Sig uses and external extractor and a non standard shaped slide on many models...this is true. But other MFG use "proprietary" parts as well, its not an issue to me. Is it for you?
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  #10  
Old 08-03-2012, 6:31 PM
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Dang thats some sloppy work. My RIA has better work. Sad.
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  #11  
Old 08-03-2012, 6:39 PM
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That fit was pretty standard for the early GSR...part of the problem was their use of Caspian frames...I'll bet your slide top hold isn't properly located in the frame. Caspian isn't used to holding production tolerances, they expect most of their frames/slides to be fitted by a gunsmith...you can blame the 1911 designer who spec'd out the GSR for them.

I don't think SIG every targeted the high end production market held be Baer, Brown and Wilson... They have always tried to compete, both in quality and cost in the mid-range low $1000 market.

SIG finally changed the specs for their 1911s, the last few I've seen are much nicer fitted
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2012, 7:19 PM
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I have a Sig 1911 Revolution TTT I bought new in 2008. It's been very reliable and accurate. I did notice a machining flaw inside the trigger channel that sometimes messes up my trigger pull. With the OP's problem with Sig customer service I have changed my mind for my next 1911, it will be another Springfield Armory or a Barsto if I can afford it.
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2012, 7:34 PM
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I love my GSR it has been 100% reliable through about 4000 rounds now. I am sorry to hear about your problems OP, the earlier GSR's are known to be a bit hit or miss but when you get a good one they are great 1911's.

Even though I love my GSR and it has been much better than my Colt Commander I will be buying a Colt XSE for my next 1911 purchase, although I should stick to RIA's because mine has been chopped/hacked/home smithed, shot to **** and it still runs as strong as my GSR but was half the price.
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Old 08-03-2012, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfusionpm View Post
Because you don't hear much about the thousands and thousands of satisfied customers. Some lemons are bound to sneak through no matter how tight their QC is. And those who encounter those problems are going to be exponentially more vocal about it. Got about 1k rounds through my Nitron Rail. Fitment is tight and smooth and have had no failures. Love mine.
True. I own 2 sigs currently. sure lemons sneak thru but it's how sig handled The situation. Gave him a cpo and said sorry it's inspec and your warranty is up is terrible customer service.
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  #15  
Old 08-04-2012, 9:11 AM
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In 2002 I bought a stainless P220, a stainless P226, and a P226 Sport Stock. The SS was made in Germany. The former two were made here. Both of them started to peen in the firing pin area where the hammer impacts the slide. The SS did not peen at all, not even s hint. So I sent them to Sig which replaced the slides which immediately started to peen. The SS continued to withstand the impact of the hammer with impunity. I ended up selling these guns to fund a P210.

From that experience I formed my opinion that the early American Sigs are garbage.
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  #16  
Old 08-04-2012, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmythebrain View Post
I sent the pistol back to Sig Arms and they replaced the frame. I was happy at that time to get a replacement, cleaned and shot it one time and into the safe it went. This was about 2007.

The other day I had an issue with my 1911, some dented cases on ejection. I showed the pistol to the local range master/smith and he pointed out several slide to frame fit issues and a beavertail to frame fit problem.

You may want to keep the quality issues in mind before putting out big money for a Sig 1911. It is the current Sig 1911 gunsmith that thinks that this is adequate quality, not a gunsmith from several years ago.

I still like the gun and it shoots great. I will certainly keep it. But it is not a high end production 1911 like Sig claims.

This is my experience, posted for information only. Have a nice day- James
I'd like to address a couple of concerns I have with your comments.

Sig admittedly had issues with the first lines of their 1911 that were introduced several years ago. They willingly repaired/replaced parts and pieces on those flawed guns.

You now come onto the www and bring this problem to light 5 years after you got the pistol back from the Sig gunsmith shop. Why weren't those issues you mention above addressed at the time you got the pistol returned to you?

As noted in an above post, Sig has never gone after the "high end" 1911 market. They have produced competitvely priced 1911s from the beginning.
There were problems, Sig fixed them and went on to refine the line and make the 1911 line into one of the most under-rated 1911s on the market today.

The biggest concern I get from my customers who buy the Sig 1911s now is because of the tighter tolerances they take a few hundred rounds to get broken in. Hardly something to have an issue with.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfusionpm View Post
Because you don't hear much about the thousands and thousands of satisfied customers. Some lemons are bound to sneak through no matter how tight their QC is.
And how CS deals with it means everything.
"Make it right" and all are happy.

Tell the customer to eff himself and that shoddy workmanship "Meets specs, eff off." eehhhh.... not so much.

That's a rough looking pistol.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackRydden224
I hope Ruger pays the extortion fees for the SR1911. I mean the gun is just as good if not better than a Les Baer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
A Colt collector shooting Rugers is like Hugh Grant cheating on Elizabeth Hurley with a hooker.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:15 AM
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I hate to show my ignorance, but what is a "CPO" gun?
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:24 AM
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Certified Pre-Owned :P
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by nukechaser View Post
I hate to show my ignorance, but what is a "CPO" gun?
Was just about to ask this also.

So they replaced your New Defective frame with a USED frame? And didn't tell anyone? Sounds shifty in my opinion. OP has a right to be upset, even if it is after the fact. Not good business.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:42 PM
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Remember this was my first 1911. I did not really know what proper fit was supposed to be when they sent me this gun years ago. I have mainly kept this in the safe until recently, that is when I noticed the fitment issues.
Quote:
You now come onto the www and bring this problem to light 5 years after you got the pistol back from the Sig gunsmith shop. Why weren't those issues you mention above addressed at the time you got the pistol returned to you?
Thought i'd help.
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chingdaotze View Post
Used
Fixed it...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackRydden224
I hope Ruger pays the extortion fees for the SR1911. I mean the gun is just as good if not better than a Les Baer.
Quote:
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A Colt collector shooting Rugers is like Hugh Grant cheating on Elizabeth Hurley with a hooker.
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  #23  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.1904 View Post
Was just about to ask this also.

So they replaced your New Defective frame with a USED frame? And didn't tell anyone? Sounds shifty in my opinion. OP has a right to be upset, even if it is after the fact. Not good business.
I don't think the frame was used, they just classify guns with replaced frames as CPO. Doesn't make any sense to me though anyway.
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Old 08-05-2012, 8:05 AM
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There is a BIG difference between Sig USA and SigSauer. Not sure if SigSauer has anything to do with Sig USA other than the name and as the distributor for parts.
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Old 08-05-2012, 2:07 PM
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I have first hand experience with sig customer service. Sig's customer service and their attitude sucks with a capital S, and their gunsmithing is even worse. Please excuse my French. I
talked to the service rep the op mentioned, and his boss and his boss's boss. They all talk like you owe them something because you bought a sig and it has a defect. I suggested they should call Springfield's customer service, learn a lesson and get an attitude adjustment.
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