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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

View Poll Results: How do you feel about the M9
Love it 61 30.20%
It gets the job done 100 49.50%
Hate it 41 20.30%
Voters: 202. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 07-30-2012, 7:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
This is very true.


I successfully engaged the enemy twice with the M9. Did I wish I had a bigger gun? Yes, but if I had a 1911 or a bazooka I'd still have wished for a bigger/better gun. Engaging the enemy with an M4 and the M240 I wished for a bigger gun then, too.
This is why I wish the military would also adopt a Sub Machine gun for Tank and mounted regular army personell.
If the Iraqi Army can have SMG's why cant the regular army?
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  #42  
Old 07-30-2012, 7:32 PM
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This is why I wish the military would also adopt a Sub Machine gun for Tank and mounted personel
They did. It's called the M4.
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Last edited by tanksoldier; 07-30-2012 at 7:39 PM..
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  #43  
Old 07-30-2012, 9:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
They did. It's called the M4.
I dont agree, there is a big difference in length from a collapsable MP5 and a M4. The closest thing I have seen to a subgun in the regular army is the M231.
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  #44  
Old 07-30-2012, 9:26 PM
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Yuk...
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  #45  
Old 07-31-2012, 8:31 AM
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Our M9's were issued to 1sg's and Officers. They were carried in Gentlemen's holsters on the FOB and that was about it. We had way more shot guns then M9's for some reasons so when ever we were mounted our gunners would have a shotgun and M4.

I remember qualifying with them and that was about it but from what I remember from the qualification is it wasn't hard and you could have passed with a rock.
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  #46  
Old 07-31-2012, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by laabstract View Post
I dont agree, there is a big difference in length from a collapsable MP5 and a M4. The closest thing I have seen to a subgun in the regular army is the M231.
The MP5 has no significant effectiveness advantage over the M9, while having a weight and size disadvantage.

The MP5 is less effective than an M4, while not being significantly smaller or lighter.

If you're going to carry something bigger than a pistol, you might as well carry a carbine.
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  #47  
Old 07-31-2012, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
The MP5 has no significant effectiveness advantage over the M9, while having a weight and size disadvantage.

The MP5 is less effective than an M4, while not being significantly smaller or lighter.

If you're going to carry something bigger than a pistol, you might as well carry a carbine.
Lol keep living in La La Land
So if you went up against a platoon of MP5 wielding insurgents in Iraq
You would feel eualy gunned with a platoon of M9's???????
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Last edited by laabstract; 07-31-2012 at 8:53 PM..
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  #48  
Old 07-31-2012, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laabstract View Post
Lol keep living in La La Land
So if you went up against a platoon of MP5 wielding insurgents in Iraq
You would feel eualy gunned with a platoon of M9's???????

Well, since Haji don't really understand the concept of aimed fire, for the most part ...
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  #49  
Old 07-31-2012, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 11Bforme View Post
Our M9's were issued to 1sg's and Officers. They were carried in Gentlemen's holsters on the FOB and that was about it. We had way more shot guns then M9's for some reasons so when ever we were mounted our gunners would have a shotgun and M4.

I remember qualifying with them and that was about it but from what I remember from the qualification is it wasn't hard and you could have passed with a rock.
This is what I don't get. Some companies have their senior leadership issued M9s. There is no point. Any leader above team leader is not supposed to be firing. Yes, that's not the case but a team leader is the only fighting leader in the Army. Why you would issue M9s to your two top leadership is beyond me. The real guys who need them are the 240 gunners (dismounted) if they don't have their own M4 slung on their back.

WTF would a gunner do with a shotgun in the turret? Our trucks had a .50 or Mark with a 240 kicker and their personal M4. We also had stand alone 320s up there and a few frags (not counting the ones on the gunner's chest). I can't see any reason to have a shotgun up there. Our team leaders carried them for breaching. Although where I was we hardly had to use them the buildings were so ****ed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter.Steele View Post
Well, since Haji don't really understand the concept of aimed fire, for the most part ...
I beg to differ / depends where you are. The more IEDs, the less accurate fire you'll receive. Fewer IEDs and those PKMs and snipers have very accurate fire.

This was a direct hit on the front turret shield (where the barrel sticks between) of the truck I was gunning one mission. Scared the **** out of me.


Last edited by Scuba Steve33; 07-31-2012 at 9:00 PM..
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  #50  
Old 07-31-2012, 8:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter.Steele View Post
Well, since Haji don't really understand the concept of aimed fire, for the most part ...
True but its hard to spray and pray with a M9
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  #51  
Old 07-31-2012, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by laabstract View Post
True but its hard to spray and pray with a M9
I present you with...



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  #52  
Old 07-31-2012, 9:06 PM
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I present you with...



LOL
Oh lord I used to stay up late at night wishing I would never have to use my sniper training on such a beautiful assassin as that lol.
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  #53  
Old 07-31-2012, 10:19 PM
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Not a big fan of the M9, maybe just 'cause I was raised on 1911s and Glocks. My secondary was an M320 mwahahaha
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  #54  
Old 07-31-2012, 10:59 PM
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The first M9 I had when I was a 60 gunner was garbage, there was so much play between the slide and frame the thing sounded like a baby rattle when I'd run. Our 1st Sgt decided to have a little competition for the guys that carried em and needless to say I came in dead last, he talked a ton of sht so I handed it to him and said "show me how to shoot this thing". 5 rounds into it he's yelling at the top of his lungs for our armorer and commenced to chewing his rear. 2 months later I had a brand new M9 and a better attitude towards that weapon. The one real issue I had with the new one was too much time cleaning it and not enough time shooting it, it got to the point where I'd oil it real nice and carry it wrapped in a ziplock baggie so I'd have one less thing to clean. Then I did the worst thing you could do as an Infrantryman, I reenlisted to be an MP. I never got to the point where I hated the M9 but I definately never fell in love with the thing either. I guess carrying a 60 makes everything else feel like you're toting a BB gun around.

And on a side note, according to an E-5 and an E-6 there were design flaws that caused ND's and the Army should get rid of those POS M9s. But I'll chalk their NDs up to two guys doing stupid sht (both involved chicks and both were kinda funny).
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  #55  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiplash Actual View Post
My secondary was an M320 mwahahaha
As a grenadier that would have been your primary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duggan View Post
Then I did the worst thing you could do as an Infrantryman, I reenlisted to be an MP.
Dafuq you do that for????
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  #56  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:44 PM
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At the time MP's were getting deployed and I wanted to go see something other than JRTC and the back 40 of Ft. Campbell. And believe me I regretted it the minute I stepped foot on Ft Mclellan lol, the MPs hated me and the feeling was definately mutual. But I made up for it and cut my Blue Cord Brothers major slack by turning them over to their company instead of the MP station. I figured letting their COC handle the situation was better than slapping charges on them and ruining a possible career.
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  #57  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by duggan View Post
At the time MP's were getting deployed and I wanted to go see something other than JRTC and the back 40 of Ft. Campbell. And believe me I regretted it the minute I stepped foot on Ft Mclellan lol, the MPs hated me and the feeling was definately mutual. But I made up for it and cut my Blue Cord Brothers major slack by turning them over to their company instead of the MP station. I figured letting their COC handle the situation was better than slapping charges on them and ruining a possible career.
Can I buy you a beer? Those ****ers ruined a lot of **** for us. Then again I can't blame them. We all knew they envied us haha.
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  #58  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:57 PM
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Lol if we ever meet I'll take ya up on that beer and I'll buy you one to make up for the MPs that hassled ya.
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  #59  
Old 08-01-2012, 1:21 PM
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I dislike the M-9 because it feels like I am holding a brick in my hands. I have qualled expert with it, but just dont feel comfortable with it. Also 9mm FMJ sucks for stoping power.
Feb 26 2006 (my birthday LOL) we were sweeping through an area that the Insurgents had attacked us from the night before. I was an advisor to the Iraqi Army, and had a dog rush and try to bite a few of my Jundi.it starts to walk away as I draw my pistol, place the front sight right behind the front leg (going for the normal deer lung shot) fire 1 round which kicked up a puff of dust and hair, the dog ran off as if it didnt even faze him. he may have died later on but i lost all respect for 9mm stopping power then, and stopped carrying my pistol on patrol and only carried my M-4 after that.
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  #60  
Old 08-01-2012, 1:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noonanda View Post
I dislike the M-9 because it feels like I am holding a brick in my hands. I have qualled expert with it, but just dont feel comfortable with it. Also 9mm FMJ sucks for stoping power.
Feb 26 2006 (my birthday LOL) we were sweeping through an area that the Insurgents had attacked us from the night before. I was an advisor to the Iraqi Army, and had a dog rush and try to bite a few of my Jundi.it starts to walk away as I draw my pistol, place the front sight right behind the front leg (going for the normal deer lung shot) fire 1 round which kicked up a puff of dust and hair, the dog ran off as if it didnt even faze him. he may have died later on but i lost all respect for 9mm stopping power then, and stopped carrying my pistol on patrol and only carried my M-4 after that.
That's mt birthday, too. We were supposed to leave our COP 9 days before my birthday but the snow was so bad the birds couldn't pick us up. Finally on my birthday it stopped snowing long enough for them to get us out of there and brought over 12 months in that **** hole to an end.
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  #61  
Old 08-01-2012, 7:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba Steve33 View Post
This is what I don't get. Some companies have their senior leadership issued M9s. There is no point. Any leader above team leader is not supposed to be firing. Yes, that's not the case but a team leader is the only fighting leader in the Army. Why you would issue M9s to your two top leadership is beyond me. The real guys who need them are the 240 gunners (dismounted) if they don't have their own M4 slung on their back.

WTF would a gunner do with a shotgun in the turret? Our trucks had a .50 or Mark with a 240 kicker and their personal M4. We also had stand alone 320s up there and a few frags (not counting the ones on the gunner's chest). I can't see any reason to have a shotgun up there. Our team leaders carried them for breaching. Although where I was we hardly had to use them the buildings were so ****ed up.


I thought it was very stupid for our senior leadership to carry M9's as well. They typically didn't leave the wire with us and I think they carried them so they didn't have to carry their M4's to the chow hall to be honest with you.

As for the shotguns, it is because we had less than lethal munitions for them that would come in handy when we would do presence patrols, TCP's and such.

Dismounted: team leaders carried them for breaching. Like you said.
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  #62  
Old 08-01-2012, 7:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Bforme View Post
I thought it was very stupid for our senior leadership to carry M9's as well. They typically didn't leave the wire with us and I think they carried them so they didn't have to carry their M4's to the chow hall to be honest with you.

As for the shotguns, it is because we had less than lethal munitions for them that would come in handy when we would do presence patrols, TCP's and such.

Dismounted: team leaders carried them for breaching. Like you said.
I noticed at large FOBs we stayed at going to or from our COP a lot of senior leadership walked around with only M9s. My CO didn't have one and rotated from our three platoon COPs going out on missions with us quite often. It was always better to have him with us when we got into a TIC as he had more leverage to request air than a 1LT. Our 1SG went out for major missions but then again his job isn't to be patrolling.

Interesting with the shotguns. The only non-lethal munitions we had were 40mm CS grenades lol.
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  #63  
Old 08-03-2012, 2:04 AM
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I'd rather my leadership have some form of weapon whether it be M9 or M16/4. Granted they do not go off base, what if something happened on base? Everyone here carries a weapon(s).

I still see army guys carrying shotguns, probably a team leader like someone here said but also some dog handlers.
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  #64  
Old 08-03-2012, 7:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Stanksbeamen View Post
I'd rather my leadership have some form of weapon whether it be M9 or M16/4. Granted they do not go off base, what if something happened on base? Everyone here carries a weapon(s).

I still see army guys carrying shotguns, probably a team leader like someone here said but also some dog handlers.
I used to carry a shotgun when we visited IA bases, 1 reason was for our own personal security 2 Iraqis tended to be afraid of the shotgun and would not try and talk to you or bug you. Only exception was the ISOF which were issued shotguns and generally thought they were cool.
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  #65  
Old 08-03-2012, 2:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanksbeamen View Post
I'd rather my leadership have some form of weapon whether it be M9 or M16/4. Granted they do not go off base, what if something happened on base? Everyone here carries a weapon(s).

I still see army guys carrying shotguns, probably a team leader like someone here said but also some dog handlers.
Not sure if you took my post wrong. What myself and 11Bforme were talking about was the senior leadership being issued M9s ALONG with their M4s. If they didn't have M9s they would be carrying M4s like everyone else. At least at the bases I visited on my way to or from our COP you had to carry a weapon. Even Mazar-i-Sharif. Our COP had our own rules but at other FOBs you didn't need to carry every weapon you were issued providing someone was watching them. If you had an M4 along with other weapons you carry the M4 in case **** goes down. I wouldn't want to be stuck with a shotgun in an overrun attempt.
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  #66  
Old 08-03-2012, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba Steve33 View Post
Interesting with the shotguns. The only non-lethal munitions we had were 40mm CS grenades lol.
training rounds worked well too. The Iraqis seemed to think they were some type of chemical weapon.
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Old 08-07-2012, 8:22 PM
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The Beretta is a fine weapon but its really too large. And for the real estate it takes up, I prefer the Sig P220 that we replaced it with.
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  #68  
Old 08-09-2012, 10:35 AM
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I like it. It's a comfortable weapon. Accurate with a good trigger and light recoil. That said, I've had to do the ol' tap, rack, bang while qualifying with it.
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Old 08-15-2012, 8:33 AM
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The M9 gets it done, but personally I'd pick several other handguns over it for duty use. I never really liked the weight or ergonomics of the M9. The safety selector being on the slide in particular I find to be absolutely retarded. The grip feels like holding a coke can rather than a firearm, and the double action trigger pull is about as nasty as any I've ever felt. I did end up shooting expert with it several times, but I attribute that mostly to covertly thumbing the hammer back to avoid the double action pull.
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  #70  
Old 12-07-2013, 8:35 PM
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Great weapon system. Didn't care for it much and made lots of fun of it before I went to the Armorer's school at the factory in Maryland. Amazing all the misinformation and hearsay that melts away from an actual training class. Well thought out and dependable and would trust my life and others with it. I am retired but it is my go to weapon of choice.
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  #71  
Old 12-09-2013, 10:27 PM
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Anyone had a chance to fire the new Marine Corps 1911, the Colt brand "Marine pistol? All I have to say is WOW that is an excellent pistol!! I always qualify expert with the M9, neither love nor hate it per-se...

That Colt however, I absolutely LOVE and it was very nice to shoot.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
Served active duty Air Force in an office job, so the M9 would be my only "war gun" in the event of a deployment.

My thoughts on it are as follows.Feel free to send me a nastygram via PM if you disagree.

The original Beretta model 92 wasn't designed to be a military firearm. The 1911 by comparison was designed from the ground up to be a military duty weapon. So was the Model 39 Smith and Wesson and derivatives, the Glock 17, the Browning Hi-power, CZ 75,and many other excellent guns. When Beretta set out to make the original , single action/double action frame safety model 92 back in the 1970s the designers didn't intend it for use as a military duty pistol.

For civil target shooting and sporting use the Beretta 92 its a great gun;large frame, longer barrel than most competitors, easy to use sights, aluminum frame, and low-recoil design. For someone who buys a gun and shoots 50 rounds through it every month before sticking it back in the safe, its a great choice.Ditto for competition. In both uses, a failed trigger spring and locking block jam aren't serious problems. A sport shooter can afford to replace the parts as needed without undue risk to life and limb.

The problem with the M9 from my perspective is that its the result of the US military turning a target pistol into a self-defense duty gun. The roles are NOT the same. Its like taking a Ford F150 pickup and spending gobs of cash turning it into a drag racing machine;true, itll run the 1/4 respectably if you put enough work into it, but its always going to lose to a Camaro designed from the jump to kick tail on the track.


A Sig 226 is meant to be run hard. So is a Glock. But a Beretta is made to be put in a safe and shot every other month. I realize this hurts a few peoples' feelings, but the DoD may as well have picked the .357 Desert Eagle and tried to make it a duty pistol. There's no way you're going to get a Magnum Research large caliber gun to work like a Glock 17 in a war environment no matter how much the government spends on revisions and changes;its just not made for that job.So it is with the Beretta.

This explains why in military circles the gun has such a spotty or average reputation, but in non military civil usage people generally like them. Target shooting at a static range is not the same thing as drawing down after low crawling though mucky soil , and a Beretta 92 is simply not intended for that kind of use. What the military is doing is attaching superchargers to pickups ,and pretending they have drag racing cars.

Bottom line :there's nothing wrong with buying an M9/92FS, as long as the owner understands that they are NOT buying a go to war duty gun. Id place an M9 in the same category as a Tanfoglio Witness Match competition gun or a Desert Eagle .50AE;they are civilian oriented handguns meant for sport and enjoyment. So long as that's understood, people would be much happier with the M9.

As far as the DoD is concerned, my advice is they should dump the M9 ASAP and go with something designed to be kicked in the mud from the ground up. The Sig P226 would make more sense, since its already in the government acquisition system.

I am not in service with the pistol but the average use without failures is 17,500 rounds and the locking blocks on average last about 22,000 rounds. The history is that the slide problems ended with the transition from 92F to 92FS modifications. Beretta boasts that in a simultaneous run of 12 pistols there were no malfunctions after 168,000 or so rounds were fired.

How can one argue that it is not a military-capable weapon? Those 1911s suck in my opinion. They are outdated, fail a lot - FT feed, jams, stovepipes, limited mag capacity, harder to shoot accurately and at distance.

I'd be happy with the 92 but for one thing only-it may not be as effective stopper as 1911 because you fellas are limited to FMJ and the hole is smaller. But still, the penetration is good and that is what matters along with shot placement. It may or may not be a one-shot stopper, but I know you guys are instructed to always fire at least two shots double-tap.

I have a M9A1 and this civvie really likes it. It will not let you down. I've never had a failure for it to fire or feed. I also think the design is really cool-nice lines. The open slide may cause concern in desert or mud environments but didn't the firearm pass all those tests during the two or three trials with the competition? No firearm is completely fail-safe, or almost so, except maybe the Glock. And the Glock unmodified would never work for servicemen due to NDs while holstering/unholstering imho and in other situations.

Services must agree because another huge order for them in '09. How can one not be confident in a firearm that shoots 10 shot groups of 3" or less at 50 meters?
The thing is so RELIABLE due to the direct feeding system into that barrel. It's a tremendous confidence booster. You know it will fire and continue to feed ultra-reliably, unless it's maintained in a sub-standard fashion.

I know that I am spouting a lot of advertising 'hype' but they honestly could not get away with it if this were not true.

It's also much less expensive and safer than a Sig. I like to always chamber the first round with the safety engaged-hard to screw that up...and then disengage and holster it-hard to screw that up due to the revolver-like DA trigger...and cost does enter into the equation.

I think the findings in the poll are consistent with surveys/studies taken of soldiers who actually engaged the enemy in combat.

Last edited by ifilef; 12-10-2013 at 12:27 AM..
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Old 12-10-2013, 6:17 AM
18Dmedic 18Dmedic is offline
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I've sent more than my share of lead downrange. In my educated opinion, the M9 is pretty much idiot proof ****like any other service pistol****IF MAINTAINED PROPERLY and the dumbass using it is trained properly. I've NEVER heard of issues with it in high speed units...except in the beginning. The slide would crack in the rear and send it flying backwards. I think it was a few SEALs that were hurt and a couple of our guys.

But that issue was addressed and the slides were tabbed up and reinforced in the rear of it and this has been a non-issue since.

As for stopping power...that is also not a big issue. If you have to switch to your backup, it's all bad anyway and most likely the engagement is a close one. So aim well and let loose some lead. It'll do the job. I carried my P220 and my Glock 21 in the ****. I can tell you with conviction that the Glock was by far my favorite. Why? Because its light, .45 cal, and as reliable as a shemagh.

As for the M9, it is an awesome firearm. Just huge. For the target gun comments I suggest you guys look up the WWII sidearm P38. Look familiar!?
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Old 12-10-2013, 7:01 AM
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I was a machine gunner and had an M9 my whole time in the army. I did feel like the M9 was big for a 9mm but I was able to shoot well with it. I kept the m9 in my ruck on patrols and slept with it in my sleeping bag outside the wire. A .45 would have been nice but I never had any failures with the m9 and 9mm works fine when you shoot a dude in the heart or the face.
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Old 12-10-2013, 7:20 AM
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Good enough for me to qualify as an expert first time on one that looked a century old. I will never knock its capability, just isn't my personal taste for a privately owned weapon.
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Old 12-10-2013, 9:15 AM
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I never served in the military, but worked as a civilian at MCAS El Toro in So. Cal. I was able to work side by side the MPs who carried the M9 and they gave it mixed reviews. I got the impression that it worked well and they were happy with it.

My main question or comment- The MPs were issued FMJ 9mm ammo. Ok, not the best for stopping power. Did the FMJs play a part in the USMC not being happy with the pistol and switching to the Colt 45? I can totally see the justification of "poor stopping power", so lets up grade to the 45. I would think that they would re-examine an ammo upgrade to JHP before the entire pistol replacement.

Any answers or am I just wrong on this?
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Old 12-10-2013, 9:20 AM
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Add- Nutnfancy did a review of the M9-




Last edited by boukca; 12-27-2013 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 12-10-2013, 3:21 PM
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Carried it for a year in Kandahar and hated it. I would much prefer a glock or sig. It is a really bad day if you have to use it though!
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Old 12-10-2013, 4:02 PM
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I see a lot of meh comments because it's 9mm. Personally I think is the right caliber, wrong round. Stupid Geneva conventions make I so we can only carry ball ammo. Personally I have no problem with my M9. I have shot probably 10 different M9s over the years without an issue. Some were a little loose from use but nothing that wasn't easily manageable and still consistent. I have seen a slide break from a stress crack, however this gun had been in service for about 15 years with 6 combat deployments with a unit that does a lot of cqb packages. Estimated round count of the barrel was 40k. I'd say that's pretty reliable.

Overall the gun is just fine. I've used it in combat without a problem. Yes there is nicer stuff out there but its also about cost to operate, availability of stock parts, ease of detailed maintenance, among many other things. I'd love to see something new and spiffy but I better be able to take the beating the M9 takes in stride.
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Old 12-10-2013, 6:12 PM
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gets the job done but ergonomics suck IMO.
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