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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 07-27-2012, 12:02 AM
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Default Zastava AK-47 M70 PAP?

anyone has any reviews on these? looks pretty interesting and may buy one soon. i've read some reviews but they dont go much into details. how much more accuracy over standard ak as they claim? a nice full brief review would be nice
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Old 07-27-2012, 3:03 AM
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tag, been looking at these also.
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Old 07-27-2012, 4:16 AM
Kinsel83 Kinsel83 is offline
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I believe the M70's have standard AK accuracy like any other AK. Supposedly, the receiver is better built. It's got all the reliability like a AK should. It is a good buy, if you got the dough. They were going for $900 something dollars at my local shop. A bit out of my price range. If I buy another AK, it'll be a WASR. I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Yugo at all. Hope I helped.
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Old 07-27-2012, 5:58 AM
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I have one. It is awesome. Very nice finish, smooth operation , wood in very nice as well. Solid rifle !!! Mags fit perfect, metal. Tap is are a bit tight but can wear in NP!!! I was looking at Arsenal , which has been months behind. Arsenal is a tiny bit above but I am very glad I got my PAP !!!! Worth every penny IMO.
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Old 07-27-2012, 6:11 AM
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Default I bought one

I love mine. It is so solid and well built. I really like the wood furniture on it, and nothing rattles or shakes. As far as accuracy goes it is pretty nice. Just like the previous poster said, it is fairly standard for an AK. Mine was getting better groups with some ammo brands than with others. I bought Tula, Wolf, Winchester, and American Eagle. It did really bad with the Winchester, I don't know why. It shot the Tula ammo decently, but did really good with the Wolf and the American Eagle. I have since purchased some PRVI Partizan, and some Yugo M67 surplus ammo, and I think it will get even better with those two brands. Then I would like to try out some Sellier and Bellot, and some Hornady. I was getting about 4-5 inch groups with the American Eagle ammo, so I figure to drop that down to at least 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards with the right ammo. Hopefully more than that.

I read so many negative threads about the Zastava M70 PAP, but most of them are just posting what they have read someone else rant about. When I question them about it, they don't have a clue. What can you do, right? People are followers, and only a few have the nut sack to stand up alone, and think on their own.

Don't pay that price in your gun shop. I ordered mine direct from Atlantic Firearms and it was cheaper than that. You'll pay $649 plus $45 for the bullet button, so your total will be $700. Now you'll pay taxes and $65 dollars dros so figure about $800 out the door, but that is cheaper than buying it for $900 plus tax and dros.

As I said, I love mine. Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Old 07-27-2012, 6:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinsel83 View Post
I believe the M70's have standard AK accuracy like any other AK. Supposedly, the receiver is better built. It's got all the reliability like a AK should. It is a good buy, if you got the dough. They were going for $900 something dollars at my local shop. A bit out of my price range. If I buy another AK, it'll be a WASR. I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Yugo at all. Hope I helped.
They will tend to be a bit more accurate due to the unlined barrel, thicker profile barrel (less "whip" than a garden variety AKM) and a longer sight radius due to the set-back on the rear sight base which shortens the top cover.

R
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Old 07-27-2012, 6:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaweed02 View Post
... I bought Tula, Wolf, Winchester, and American Eagle. It did really bad with the Winchester, I don't know why. It shot the Tula ammo decently, but did really good with the Wolf and the American Eagle. I have since purchased some PRVI Partizan, and some Yugo M67 surplus ammo, and I think it will get even better with those two brands. Then I would like to try out some Sellier and Bellot, and some Hornady. I was getting about 4-5 inch groups with the American Eagle ammo, so I figure to drop that down to at least 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards with the right ammo. Hopefully more than that.
Winchester hasn't been up to par in my rifles either. I have read that while the others you mentioned are dimensioned and tested according to CIP (which all European ammo tends to made to conform with), Winchester, Federal and Remington uses the SAAMI specs, resulting in being a bit oversized. What effect this has on geometry inside the chamber, I'm not quite sure, but it doesn't appear to be beneficial to accuracy on rifles that are likely to have been chambered to CIP.

PPU (Prvi Partizan) is where a lot of the M67 was actually made in previous decades. It still lists the 7.62x39 mm as M67 on their website with the primary change being a boxer (and non-corrosive) primed case that can be reloaded, whereas the original M67, like most military loads on this end of Europe, was berdan primed (and corrosive). My rifles prefer the Hornady SST and Vmax, Golden Tiger, Lapua (though I won't be buying any more at their stratospheric pricing), PPU and Fiocchi does pretty well also. The chambers aren't particularly smooth and the throat area is in need of a good burnish. It should smooth out within several hundred rounds and your groups should tighten up. To find out wha the rifle is capable of, you'll need a solid rest you can torque down the rifle to. I can almost guarantee the rifle is capable of more than what you indicated. The rifle will almost always be twice as accurate as the average shooter and mine are no exception.

R
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Last edited by Richard Erichsen; 07-27-2012 at 6:34 AM..
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Old 07-27-2012, 6:45 AM
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Default Thanks Richard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
Winchester hasn't been up to par in my rifles either. I have read that while the others you mentioned are dimensioned and tested according to CIP (which all European ammo tends to made to conform with), Winchester, Federal and Remington uses the SAAMI specs, resulting in being a bit oversized. What effect this has on geometry inside the chamber, I'm not quite sure, but it doesn't appear to be beneficial to accuracy on rifles that are likely to have been chambered to CIP.

PPU (Prvi Partizan) is where a lot of the M67 was actually made in previous decades. It still lists the 7.62x39 mm as M67 on their website with the primary change being a boxer (and non-corrosive) primed case that can be reloaded, whereas the original M67, like most military loads on this end of Europe, was berdan primed (and corrosive). My rifles prefer the Hornady SST and Vmax, Golden Tiger, Lapua (though I won't be buying any more at their stratospheric pricing), PPU and Fiocchi does pretty well also. The chambers aren't particularly smooth and the throat area is in need of a good burnish. It should smooth out within several hundred rounds and your groups should tighten up. To find out wha the rifle is capable of, you'll need a solid rest you can torque down the rifle to. I can almost guarantee the rifle is capable of more than what you indicated. The rifle will almost always be twice as accurate as the average shooter and mine are no exception.

R

Thanks Richard,

You are always helpful and I for one appreciate that. That explanation you gave helps clear it up a little bit. I think I am going to try lots of different ammo in it so that I can find the one that it likes the best. And before I do, I believe I will take your advice and shoot a few hundred rounds or more of just regular cheap ammo, just to break it in. Then try the other brands you mentioned, along with the new ammo I already bought. I will post some pics of groups if I get a chance to shoot in the near future. Take care Richard.
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  #9  
Old 07-27-2012, 7:36 AM
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They also have a 1.5 mm receiver instead of the 1mm.
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Old 07-27-2012, 8:36 AM
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I love my Zastava PAP. I wanted a rifle I could shoot out of the box. I didn't want to worry about canted sights, horrible furniture and converting it. The Zastava fit the bill. There is no bayo lug, cleaning rod or sling mounts. Those items are not of the utmost importance to me, so it doesn't bother me. Another thing is that the receiver is 1.5mm because it is based off an RPK, it's absolutely built like a freakin' tank. There were no tooling or idiot marks on it, but I suggest you thoroughly examine your rifle. The Zastava comes with a rail attached to the dust cover. People have advised against mounting an optic as it will lose zero. I don't have one mounted but the fit of the dust cover is really good and solid. All in all, it was a super clean and ready-to-shoot rifle. Also, keep in mind that there are four different types of the PAP's sold by CAI. Make sure the rifle you purchase is the rifle you want.
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Old 07-27-2012, 8:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZHEAD265 View Post
They also have a 1.5 mm receiver instead of the 1mm.
There is more to it than that. The receiver is thicker which is quite true, but was also of a superior alloy to what was deemed sufficient for the AKM. The weapon is also reinforced in other ways as well. The barrel trunnion is of the "bulged" type found on the RPK (and also the Molot/Izhmash VEPR) and the barrel is close to the thickness of the original Type I/II/III AK47, which is much thicker than the AKM. The Zastava rifles are both riveted and spot welded at the junction between barrel trunnion and receiver/stock trunnion and receiver to make the fixture stronger. This comes from the military requirement to be able to reliably fire rifle grenades without dramatically reducing the useful life of the rifle. The grenade launching charges (basically a high pressure blank) and weight of the grenades being projected from the muzzle are very hard on rifles and destroy regular AKs within a few hundred rounds, cracking receivers and popping rivets, swelling barrels and breaking buttstocks and pistol grips. The top cover locks in place with a spring loaded pin to keep it from popping off unexpectedly during said launching of rifle grenades, all provisions to reinforce and tighten up a rifle intended to turn every riflemen into a grenadier.

The only benefits to a civilian shooter that you might notice are a barrel that doesn't overheat as quickly and possibly slightly better accuracy. Built properly, these rifles were designed to last for the long haul. Regular AKMs are more disposable with a lower cost to produce.

R
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Old 07-27-2012, 9:53 AM
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Default Cleaning rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhj32883 View Post
I love my Zastava PAP. I wanted a rifle I could shoot out of the box. I didn't want to worry about canted sights, horrible furniture and converting it. The Zastava fit the bill. There is no bayo lug, cleaning rod or sling mounts. Those items are not of the utmost importance to me, so it doesn't bother me. Another thing is that the receiver is 1.5mm because it is based off an RPK, it's absolutely built like a freakin' tank. There were no tooling or idiot marks on it, but I suggest you thoroughly examine your rifle. The Zastava comes with a rail attached to the dust cover. People have advised against mounting an optic as it will lose zero. I don't have one mounted but the fit of the dust cover is really good and solid. All in all, it was a super clean and ready-to-shoot rifle. Also, keep in mind that there are four different types of the PAP's sold by CAI. Make sure the rifle you purchase is the rifle you want.

I guess it just depends on which of those imports you buy, because my Zastava PAP M70 rifle does come with sling swivels and a cleaning rod attached.
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