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  #41  
Old 10-08-2012, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LOW2000 View Post
Anyone have a line on reaching the guys? I tried the site contact form and the FB page but i'm getting no love.

Wanted to get in on the class on Wednesday, but couldn't get any response from either method. Is info@falconops.net the way to go? Its not like i'm going to text one of the guys over something non-essential, but I wanted to get in on a 1.0 or 1.5 Carbine course before Costa next year.
If you want to brush up on your carbine skills before Costa's class and FOG doesn't have space for you, you have many other local options. It's not like Costa's class has a pre-req that you have to take FOG's 1.0 and 1.5 Carbine class.
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  #42  
Old 10-08-2012, 10:47 PM
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I "liked" their facebook page to remember them for future classes. I still have to take my first class with another crew. Cool that they are so close to me!
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  #43  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:09 PM
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SparkYZ: Thanks for the questions and sorry for the delayed response. We have plenty of shooters who bring XDs and 1911's. It's mostly a matter of shooter preference. You'll be instructed on how to shoot ANY gun well, not just a specific gun, as our fundamentals apply to all types of shooting and firearm brands. As The Virus mentioned, you will run out of ammo faster in a 1911, so you will get more practice doing emergency and tactical reloads while those running 17 round mags will have less chances to run dry during drills. Another recommendation is to bring both, and shoot one in the AM and switch to the other in the PM.

The next pistol classes are THIS WEEKEND, 1.5 and 2.0. Anyone who has at least 1 pistol class with us, or proof of basic pistol training from another school may attend. Signup here: http://falconops.net/schedule/ Hope to see you soon!

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  #44  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:25 PM
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LOW2000, sorry for the delayed response, the lead guy Voodoo has been very busy with other training missions and Ferfrans demos across the states, so he's asked me to respond for him. We have 2 intermediate level classes this coming weekend, pistol 1.5 and 2.0. If you have any prior pistol class with us, or another outfit, you will be fine to attend 1.5 and the subsequent class 2.0. Signups are here: http://falconops.net/schedule/

Any other questions, please ask, I will try to respond ASAP. Thanks for your patience.

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  #45  
Old 10-17-2012, 9:04 AM
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This should help..

V@FalconOps.net
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  #46  
Old 10-21-2012, 7:34 PM
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Though this was only my second Falcon Ops course, what I absolutely love about these classes are:

1) They focus on the critical concept and key points, and leave the minutia up to you to make it work.
2) They back up the "this is why you do it like this" with real world field/theater examples.
3) They explain why tactics or methods have changed over the years. Bad guys wear body armor now sometimes, how do you change your targeting?
4) Goes along with #1, but extremely high bang-for-buck. At no time in either class were there ever lulls in training, nor did I ever feel what we were doing was pointless to me. I was in mental sponge mode non-stop for 8+ hours.

Can't say enough good things about these courses.

Last edited by slickshoes; 10-24-2012 at 9:51 PM..
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  #47  
Old 10-22-2012, 6:28 AM
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its always fun to see guns pointed at other people and not me. WTF!

A second class allows you to point guns toward other students and instructors? There was no reason to draw before being ahead of the instructors or in line with your team mate.
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  #48  
Old 10-22-2012, 10:48 AM
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This training looks like it might be for someone going overseas as an armed civilian contractor operating in a team, is that what it is?
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  #49  
Old 10-22-2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian1979 View Post
its always fun to see guns pointed at other people and not me. WTF!

A second class allows you to point guns toward other students and instructors?
Not following you here. Which video(s) are you referring to?
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  #50  
Old 10-22-2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
This training looks like it might be for someone going overseas as an armed civilian contractor operating in a team, is that what it is?
My impression is it is not, though it certainly benefits from those experiences. The vast majority of the day was about addressing a speed/accuracy balance, addressing different types of malfunctions, using cover, moving while shooting/reloading, etc. Things that certainly would benefit the contractor or LEO types, but also applicable to anyone carrying (even only in the home) in the real world. Definitely was a lot more dynamic than just standing on line and shooting paper targets.

I believe the videos you may be inferring this from was from the LEO specific portion of shooting around cover with backup following shortly behind.

Last edited by slickshoes; 10-22-2012 at 1:49 PM..
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  #51  
Old 10-22-2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian1979 View Post
There was no reason to draw before being ahead of the instructors or in line with your team mate.
Either the pistol should been drawn once in position or if you're approaching another teammate with pistol drawn the muzzle should be pointing straight down or up. No need to have it pointing straight downrange like depicted.
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  #52  
Old 10-22-2012, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
Do you have to have any previous shooting experience or training to participate in the two man team training?
No idea of their requirements, but those were LEOs. Us non-LEO's were held on a shorter leash, moved on line and more by the numbers.

From my point of view, it appeared that the lead guy would draw directly downrange, and raise to a high port carry while getting to cover. The backup, once approaching the covered position, would draw diagonally ~45* (not sweeping his partner straight ahead), to the right in this case, to a high port carry as well, and then participate in the firing from a standing position.

Since I wasn't directly involved in that team training, and more importantly out of respect for the LEOs that were, I'll remove those videos. Maybe someone that was involved can comment though. I'm still in sponge mode, so I'd love to hear more.

Last edited by slickshoes; 10-22-2012 at 1:48 PM..
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  #53  
Old 10-22-2012, 1:46 PM
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Still a little confused. So these classes are for Police? who obvisouly have experience working in teams, but what about previous experience for civilians?
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  #54  
Old 10-22-2012, 5:28 PM
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Hey all. Great training once again. Wish I could have made it to Sunday's 2.0 class though.

Falcon Group was great once again. After reading some of the comments above I would recommend visiting Falcon's web site for more details...

http://falconops.net/

The training instruction is great and explained thoroughly. I believe Slickshoes described it the best. Just to add... The instructors recognize every class will have different levels of experienced students. Just like different personalities. If they can, they sometimes divide the group to ensure a positive pace for the students (slower or faster).
With that said, don't feel intimidated. Get out there and train... It's impossibly bad a idea.

See you at the next class.

http://falconops.net/schedule/
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  #55  
Old 10-22-2012, 6:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Virus View Post
You and Brian should probably stay on the competition range behind the 180.
I didn't ask about the 180 degree range rule, I asked about what previous experience civilians needed before participating in a two man team situation. I have been thru many 360 degree shoot houses, some in the dark. So my question is still what previous experience or qualifications are required for the two man civilian team?
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  #56  
Old 10-22-2012, 7:56 PM
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How does one "qualify" to perform two man tactics?
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  #57  
Old 10-22-2012, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by The Virus View Post
How does one "qualify" to perform two man tactics?
Demonstrate ability and have a reason for doing it. Seems to me there was no clear cut reason for this and I didnt see anything that made me think these people were qualified. I feel more scared for the instructors and not sure how they felt comfortable standing there.

Maybe my exposure is different when it comes to practice but I know damn well I dont want guns pointed toward me regardless of ones experience. Is this why this group is not at Norco any longer? I heard they had some issues following rules there as well.
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  #58  
Old 10-22-2012, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian1979 View Post
Demonstrate ability and have a reason for doing it. Seems to me there was no clear cut reason for this and I didnt see anything that made me think these people were qualified. I feel more scared for the instructors and not sure how they felt comfortable standing there.

Maybe my exposure is different when it comes to practice but I know damn well I dont want guns pointed toward me regardless of ones experience. Is this why this group is not at Norco any longer? I heard they had some issues following rules there as well.
Have you ever trained with them?
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  #59  
Old 10-22-2012, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian1979 View Post
Demonstrate ability and have a reason for doing it. Seems to me there was no clear cut reason for this and I didnt see anything that made me think these people were qualified. I feel more scared for the instructors and not sure how they felt comfortable standing there.

Maybe my exposure is different when it comes to practice but I know damn well I dont want guns pointed toward me regardless of ones experience. Is this why this group is not at Norco any longer? I heard they had some issues following rules there as well.
WHere would they demonstrate this? At a training class?
Why does it matter if you think they were qualified?
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  #60  
Old 10-23-2012, 6:32 AM
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Originally Posted by The Virus View Post
WHere would they demonstrate this? At a training class?
Why does it matter if you think they were qualified?
You asked a question and I answered it. I dont care what they do but if I paid for the class and was there I would have most certainly left and been very pissed.
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  #61  
Old 10-23-2012, 7:44 AM
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You asked a question and I answered it. I dont care what they do but if I paid for the class and was there I would have most certainly left and been very pissed.
Well if you were thinking of signing up, you could read the course description and then decide not to sign up based on that.
It clearly states 2 man shooting evolutions and team movements.

http://falconops.net/products-page/c...012-duplicate/
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  #62  
Old 10-23-2012, 8:25 AM
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Has anyone figured out where to sign up for the Costa Prep day yet?

Mike, thanks for the answer, knew Voodoo was doing demos all over, thats why I just sent my email in to the general info request. Let me know if I'm OK taking a skill builder class for a weapon I have very little experience with. I was under the impression that those were for post-course maintenance of skills.
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  #63  
Old 10-23-2012, 12:23 PM
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Seems that confusion is always created when videos are shown, but they are critiqued by those who did not attend the class, so maybe this will help clear some issues up. With that said, I cannot see the videos, they are marked "private" when I try to view them, but I was a student at this class. My notes:

1. You only need a level 1.0 course before taking this 1.5 course. You do not need prior experience working in teams.

2. There was ample instruction PRIOR to when these videos were taken (at the end of the day), including how to draw your weapon on the move and avoid sweeping your teammate and the instructors. We had gone through tons of evolutions prior to the team movement portion of the class.

3. At the beginning of the day, Falcon staff typically evaluates the group of shooters, and they decided to separate all 14 of us into two groups of 7. One group was newer or less experienced shooters. The second group was 5 LEO and 2 alumni. Two of the LEO were patrol officers who were partners and the other 3 were on the same SWAT team. So, this type of training was very beneficial to them. They don't get to do this stuff in the academy. Typically, the more experienced group would shoot first, then the less experienced would watch and learn. Or, we'd separate into 2 groups and run similar drills at the same time, but at a different pace. FOG instructors are very good about this at all of the classes I have attended.

4. I would agree that the courses are typically geared toward LEO/Militray styles of shooting as opposed to civilian. But many of the fundamentals apply to home defense/SHTF as well. If you are the type of person who wants to operate on the 180 range standing still and shooting 1" groups at 25 yards with a Beretta, then yes, these classes are not for you. However, I have seen these types of people attend a FOG course before, they look like a deer in headlights at 8:30am, but at the end of the day, they are rocking it like the rest of us, and in many cases step out of their box and go from a great shooter to an amazing shooter.

As some of you can see, those who come back from a FOG course and post on Calguns seem to have a certain bond that you don't get from other schools (The Virus, Bambino83, Slickshoes, Ramzar, myself, etc.). If only all of you cold see how much better the two patrol officer partners improved after only 1 day of training... I'd be sorry if I were a bad guy and ran into them on the streets!

Bambino83 and Slickshoes, great shooting with you again, and your comments are spot-on from my viewpont of this weekend's class. Well done!

LOW2000, I've asked Voodoo for a description of the Costa Prep course and will have it posted here when I have it, thanks for asking. For now, I think you can still signup here (http://falconops.net/schedule/), even though they didnt post a course description yet.
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  #64  
Old 10-23-2012, 12:40 PM
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Official word from FOG is that the 12/22 Prep for COSTA Day will be similar to prior FOG SkillBuilders, but at a higher tempo.

This basically means that you should have at least one level 1 pistol course and a level 1 rifle course before signing up online here (http://falconops.net/schedule/) or email v@falconops.net with experience questions.

Skill builders are typically 2 sessions in 1 day, AM pistol and PM carbine. I am guessing you will need about 300 rounds of each type, and maybe more to be safe.

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  #65  
Old 10-23-2012, 1:36 PM
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Thanks Stash!
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  #66  
Old 10-23-2012, 3:16 PM
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Thats the thing...

Clicking the "Click here to register" on the http://falconops.net/schedule/ page for the Costa Prep takes you to...

http://falconops.net/products-page/courses/

And the courses page doesn't have a class there to select so you can reserve a spot and pay.
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  #67  
Old 10-23-2012, 3:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LOW2000 View Post
Thats the thing...

Clicking the "Click here to register" on the http://falconops.net/schedule/ page for the Costa Prep takes you to...

http://falconops.net/products-page/courses/

And the courses page doesn't have a class there to select so you can reserve a spot and pay.
The site needs to be updated. I will inform the Falcon Ops Admins about this.
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  #68  
Old 10-23-2012, 8:12 PM
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Low2000, costa prep course link has been fixed, thanks buddy! http://falconops.net/products-page/c...ion-duplicate/
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Old 10-23-2012, 8:43 PM
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Hell yeah!!
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Old 10-24-2012, 7:29 PM
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LOW2000, brother I am very sorry that we missed you and you could not get in touch with us. We have been traveling, teaching across the country and working on special projects so I do apologize. However, we have a new phone system! Hollywoods wife is now the secretary (sound familiar?). So, if you call the main phone number on the website you should get 1 of 4 staff members and if not, your email is transcribed and sent to all of our phones. We are also in the process of upgrading our website to a new one cause the last one we paid for was a horrible....
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  #71  
Old 10-24-2012, 10:27 PM
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Hollywoods wife is now the secretary (sound familiar?).
Hollywood has a wife?! How does she get a word in?!
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  #72  
Old 10-24-2012, 10:30 PM
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^^^ what ram said
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:35 AM
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No sweat, saw you guys have been running all over impressing people with the Ferfrans and knew you'd be short on time.

All signed up for some classes now that the links are all fixed.

For the guys that have shot at Prado, are they restricting steel core? Does FOG have a line on ammo on the cheap for us to pick up the day of the class?
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:50 AM
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I've taken many Falcon classes. Safety has NEVER been an issue.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:36 AM
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Enjoyed the F.O.G. Costa HE 02 course back in January. Just signed up to go again in 2013.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:46 AM
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Actually, I should amend my earlier post....we were on the range one day, and Voodoo had his truck on the range for some "from the front seat" drills. Somewhere along the way, he put his shot timer on his tire, rather than hoof it back to the benches. We started doing "other stuff", and forgot about it. Once the day was done, everybody pitched in to clean up the range. Just as he started to move his truck back to the benches prior to the AAR portion of the day, he ran it over. You could hear the "crunch" all over the canyon. Lol! I know he was bummed, but he laughed along with us.

Not a "safety issue", but certainly a casualty. Lol!
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Old 10-30-2012, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW2000 View Post
No sweat, saw you guys have been running all over impressing people with the Ferfrans and knew you'd be short on time.

All signed up for some classes now that the links are all fixed.

For the guys that have shot at Prado, are they restricting steel core? Does FOG have a line on ammo on the cheap for us to pick up the day of the class?
LOW2000, steel core is OK at that range, but when shooting the steel targets that FOG uses, they want you to avoid shooting steel core ammo. Best you dont use steel core if we are shooting steel that day so you dont accidentally mess up the targets, or worst case, bring steel and lead core and use hte lead core ammo/mags when shooting steel targets.

FOG will sell ammo, but it won't be any cheaper than retail, so best you just go to Ammo Brothers in Cerritos or Ontario and stock-up in bulk. We typically shoot 500-600 rounds AT LEAST, per day. I bring at least 750/day just for peace of mind, not having to worry about running out.
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Old 10-30-2012, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by geeknow View Post
Actually, I should amend my earlier post....we were on the range one day, and Voodoo had his truck on the range for some "from the front seat" drills. Somewhere along the way, he put his shot timer on his tire, rather than hoof it back to the benches. We started doing "other stuff", and forgot about it. Once the day was done, everybody pitched in to clean up the range. Just as he started to move his truck back to the benches prior to the AAR portion of the day, he ran it over. You could hear the "crunch" all over the canyon. Lol! I know he was bummed, but he laughed along with us.

Not a "safety issue", but certainly a casualty. Lol!
I heard about this, glad someone saw it!

I have over 200 hours with FOG, never seen any instructor-induced safety issues.
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Old 10-31-2012, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lewisracing View Post
LOW2000, steel core is OK at that range, but when shooting the steel targets that FOG uses, they want you to avoid shooting steel core ammo. Best you dont use steel core if we are shooting steel that day so you dont accidentally mess up the targets, or worst case, bring steel and lead core and use hte lead core ammo/mags when shooting steel targets.

FOG will sell ammo, but it won't be any cheaper than retail, so best you just go to Ammo Brothers in Cerritos or Ontario and stock-up in bulk. We typically shoot 500-600 rounds AT LEAST, per day. I bring at least 750/day just for peace of mind, not having to worry about running out.
I hear ya, I went through nearly 2500 of 9mm when we did the Costa class earlier this year. You doing any of the upcoming courses?
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:44 PM
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Yea costas classes were insane... Im going to try to make costa but might be too busy at the office.
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