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  #1  
Old 05-29-2013, 4:26 PM
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Bert Gamble Bert Gamble is offline
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Default Anyone been to 350 pistol at Gunsite?

I am going back to Gunsite for the 350 Pistol in late September and am wondering if there is a night shoot where a weapon light is required? I would hate to have to buy a holster that can accomodate a light if it isn't necessary. If I need it, it is no problem.

Also, if you went, did you enjoy the course? Did you learn a lot?
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Old 05-29-2013, 6:06 PM
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Did not do 350 Pistol - did carbine-223 2 weeks ago. Great experience - the ratio of instructors to students is superior to any course I've taken (about 4). If you did not take 250 then you my be in for a rough go. I get the impression they assume you've taken 250 pistol prior to 350. I didn't take 250 prior to the carbine but they were all over me when we did transitions to the back up pistol (even though I did a 2 day Vickers, two 3 day Costa - HE01/02 and 2 others). They were very clear that they want you to adopt their techniques. I call and talk to Dave Starin and get a detailed equipment list. For carbine they were vague and did not include a bunch of stuff that were necessities (example we did a night shoot requiring handheld flashlight and optional weapon mounted light). The great thing about Gunsite (unlike al the other courses I've taken) is the facilities. You do not spend 100% of your training on a static line shooting paper. There is the shoot house, moving targets, etc. Last advice - is take 250 prior to 350. Even hough I consider myself well trained in pistol - I'd do 250 prior to 350.
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Old 05-30-2013, 7:42 AM
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I recently finished a 5 day shotgun course there and it was a lot of fun. I can always call them and ask about the night shoot. Just thought someone here might have been to the 350.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:10 AM
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My brother and dad have done the 350 course (a few times with different weapons actually), from what they've told me, you don't need a mounted weapon light but you will need a handheld flashlight obviously.

Neither of them have mounted weapon lights for their pistols.

I hope to go through the 250/350/499 progression at some point... right now it's hard to find time, money, and ammo.
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Old 05-31-2013, 6:39 AM
flip7 flip7 is offline
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I took the 350 last fall. I was a very solid course that moved fast and
leveraged the facilities that GS in known for.
From memory without looking at my notes, we did night indoor and outdoor
simulators. My instructor(s) for the night stuff was VERY good and practical.
the techniques taught (that you should really really practice first and get down)
were all handheld. I had a surefire x300 mounted on my gun and
ran the simulators with it - but not as my primary light inside. I did use
it from time to time inside with my handheld hanging from my wrist on
that lanyard (per done and practiced with before the course so it was the right
length and setup so I could reestablish the grip on it after a mag change).
Learning to reload (all types) (without looking) was helpful since we worked
a lot in the dark and it was very dark. For the outdoor simulator I ran the
handheld light for searching - with the light mostly off taking the proper
snap images as I scanned and then used the handheld on some threats and
the X300 on some for the first run through. The second I ran the X300 for
everything as it allowed a more solid grip on the gun and better engagement
for me. The instructor was ok with the weapon light runs. I think it will be
case by case based on the instructor you do the run throughs with and
the lead instructors mindset. The core of the work is handheld but
they were not against weapon mounted in the chalk talks.
I don't think I saw any other weapon lights being run... but many folks
didn't have rails. In the end, I realized I needed more handheld light
practice to be solid, since it was much nicer to have the x300 for me when
I might have had to use a non-standard response of multiple rounds if the
threat was not stopping - in the dark.

In short, I liked it so much that I will be at the 499 this fall.
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Old 05-31-2013, 8:02 AM
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Bert Gamble Bert Gamble is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flip7 View Post
I took the 350 last fall. I was a very solid course that moved fast and
leveraged the facilities that GS in known for.
From memory without looking at my notes, we did night indoor and outdoor
simulators. My instructor(s) for the night stuff was VERY good and practical.
the techniques taught (that you should really really practice first and get down)
were all handheld. I had a surefire x300 mounted on my gun and
ran the simulators with it - but not as my primary light inside. I did use
it from time to time inside with my handheld hanging from my wrist on
that lanyard (per done and practiced with before the course so it was the right
length and setup so I could reestablish the grip on it after a mag change).
Learning to reload (all types) (without looking) was helpful since we worked
a lot in the dark and it was very dark. For the outdoor simulator I ran the
handheld light for searching - with the light mostly off taking the proper
snap images as I scanned and then used the handheld on some threats and
the X300 on some for the first run through. The second I ran the X300 for
everything as it allowed a more solid grip on the gun and better engagement
for me. The instructor was ok with the weapon light runs. I think it will be
case by case based on the instructor you do the run throughs with and
the lead instructors mindset. The core of the work is handheld but
they were not against weapon mounted in the chalk talks.
I don't think I saw any other weapon lights being run... but many folks
didn't have rails. In the end, I realized I needed more handheld light
practice to be solid, since it was much nicer to have the x300 for me when
I might have had to use a non-standard response of multiple rounds if the
threat was not stopping - in the dark.

In short, I liked it so much that I will be at the 499 this fall.
Great info. Thank you!!
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  #7  
Old 06-11-2013, 7:02 PM
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The main reason weapon mounted lights are discouraged at Gunsite (as stated to me when I asked the question) are they violate one of the fundamental rules: Never point your firearm at a target unless you are willing to destroy target. A weapon mounted light forces you to point gun at possible non targets (your kid coming home stoned, making noise and late or your house guest wandering downstairs and making an unexpected racket for example). They also mentioned that once you are engaged in a gun fight then a weapon mounted light is an advantage as the fundamental rule no longer applies (unless there is a possibility of non combatants be in the middle of the fight).

Last edited by LMT4ME; 06-11-2013 at 7:05 PM..
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Old 06-12-2013, 3:41 AM
hambam105 hambam105 is offline
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Going to an advanced pistol class without permanent flashlight mounted capabilities on your primary handgun is like going to college without a laptop or mobile device.
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Old 06-12-2013, 7:40 PM
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Funny most of the advanced handgun classes I've taken - no one had a mounted light. Having a mounted light is ok but limits your ability to decouple the light motion from your aim i.e. you are constantly sweeping your gun.
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Old 06-13-2013, 2:03 AM
hambam105 hambam105 is offline
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Default How much low light shooting did you do?

Sometimes shooters don’t see the necessity to carry extra ammunition much less developing and maintaining a low light shooting skill set. The OP asks a good question. It may be a matter of needs assessment rather than money or equipment at this point.

Last edited by hambam105; 06-13-2013 at 2:10 AM..
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