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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-05-2012, 6:05 AM
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Default Long Gun Ban Bill Hearing Set For August 8th

AB1527, Portantino's long gun carry ban in publlic, is set for a hearing before the Senate appropriations committee for August 8th, 2012.
Whether or not you approve of open carry, or open carriers, this bill becoming law will affect you in the future if it passes. Displaying a longun in public will become a crime.
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Old 07-05-2012, 7:06 AM
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Once again, thank you UOCers.

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, in a letter to his nephew Peter Carr dated August 19, 1785
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  #3  
Old 07-05-2012, 7:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Fate View Post
Once again, thank you UOCers.

It seems your blame of UOC'rs is misplaced. In my view, the fault lays solely with Portantino for advancing this legislation for the mere possibility that individuals or groups might UOC rifles in his district, as there has been no long gun open carry activity designed to attract media attention or the consternation of the legislature.

It is thanks to politicians like Portantino, that people fear the prospect of what activity gun owners might take part in and insist on telling others what is or isnt acceptable based on their own irrational fears.
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Old 07-05-2012, 7:50 AM
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They are trying to take every self defense right we have!

Next is the Slingshot, and Pellet rifle...

We need to START OVER... FROM SCRATCH. It's what they are forcing, very soon...
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:07 AM
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There was never any good reason to have a bunch of guys with ARs have a "meeting" at Starbucks. It was a deliberate and unnecessary provocation, with no upside, that has led directly to the current and coming open-carry bans.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:19 AM
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I have the right to tell BHO to GFH to his face.

How do you suppose that would work out???

Tiberius is spot on.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:31 AM
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so does this now mean locked transportation of long guns?
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:41 AM
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There was never any good reason to have a bunch of guys with ARs have a "meeting" at Starbucks. It was a deliberate and unnecessary provocation, with no upside, that has led directly to the current and coming open-carry bans.
Spot On. How can we advance the notion that those with firearms are not dangerous or rabid individuals. All you are doing is scaring soccer moms in Starbucks.

If I saw some guy walk into a Starbucks with an AR 15, I am thinking Spree shooter and I am probably going to take you down. What we need in California is ccw. Firearms should be concealed not carried in the open.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:51 AM
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Blaming oc'ers is like blaming chocolate made you fat and of course the famous quote "if guns kill people, a spoon made rosie odonnel fat"
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
There was never any good reason to have a bunch of guys with ARs have a "meeting" at Starbucks. It was a deliberate and unnecessary provocation, with no upside, that has led directly to the current and coming open-carry bans.
sure there is, it's called American rights
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  #11  
Old 07-05-2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
They are trying to take every self defense right we have!

Next is the Slingshot, and Pellet rifle...

We need to START OVER... FROM SCRATCH. It's what they are forcing, very soon...
No, not next, right now. Regulate and ban Airsoft in Los Angeles http://www.examiner.com/article/cali...-risk-some-say
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ICONIC View Post
Firearms should be concealed not carried in the open.
Why? You know concealed carry used to be frowned upon and seen as the sign of a coward or shady character. Open carry has a lot longer tradition than concealed carry ever will. I guess you favor some other form of greeting as well, instead of a handshake.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:32 PM
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Guys Im from Washington state, moving to Kalifornia at the end of the week for work and family. I conceal carry here in WA, and most people I know do aswell. Under no circumstance would i ever open carry, nor have I ever seen anyone besides an LEO do so. WTF are you guys thinking?? hurr durr my rights!!! All your doing is stripping rights away from those of us with some common damn sense.
Not to mention if it ever comes time for a battle of lexington II, youll be arrested before you even take a stand becuase you thought you were a cowboy and it was a good idea to carry your rifle to starbucks for your *&%(* latte frappacino with extra whipcream.

Last edited by Highsaw; 07-05-2012 at 12:48 PM.. Reason: add
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:34 PM
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No, not next, right now. Regulate and ban Airsoft in Los Angeles http://www.examiner.com/article/cali...-risk-some-say
o m f g .......
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  #15  
Old 07-05-2012, 1:02 PM
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Why do we calgunners blame , Portantino, Delean. Steinberg , Peratta on and on and on when ONE POLICAL PARTY pushes it ,advances it,votes for it and then signs it !

Nearly every state where this party has a legislative advantage gun rights get hit or NEVER adavance.

Until gun owners hold this party responsiblie for their actions , it will get worse.

I hope everyone is happy with the term limit law ! all it accomplished was us losing good folks who could stop this through procedure and democrat hacks looking for a job with Joyce foundation after their terms end .
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  #16  
Old 07-05-2012, 1:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Fate View Post
Once again, thank you UOCers.

do you also blame all AR owners for SB 249?
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watching this state and country operate is like watching a water park burn down. doesn't make sense.
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Old 07-05-2012, 1:16 PM
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Next will be LUCC. Then that will be banned.
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Old 07-05-2012, 1:41 PM
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If we do not learn from the past we are doomed to repeat it. Here's what this kind of useless bickering did for the Brits!


In 1903, Parliament enacted a gun control law that appeared eminently reasonable. The Pistols Act of 1903 forbade pistol sales to minors and felons and dictated that sales be made only to buyers with a gun license. The license itself could be obtained at the post office, the only requirement being payment of a fee. People who intended to keep the pistol solely in their house did not even need to get the postal license.

......the British government in 1936 enacted legislation to outlaw (with a few minor exceptions) possession of short-barreled shotguns and fully automatic firearms.[65]

In 1946, the Home Secretary announced a policy change: henceforth, self-defense would not be considered a good reason for being granted a Firearms Certificate.[84]

The next rounds of legislative action were aimed at knives, rather than guns. The 1953 Prevention of Crime Act outlawed the carrying of an "offensive weapon" and put the burden of proof on anyone found with an "offensive weapon," such as a knife, to prove that he had a reasonable excuse. In 1959, the Home Office pushed for, and won, a ban on self-loading knives.

.....Criminal Justice Act of 1967. The new act required a license for the purchase of shotguns.[91]


An example of tranquil-period control was the Firearms Act of 1982, which introduced restrictive licensing for imitation firearms that could be converted to fire live ammunition. The original proposal had been to implement the 1973 Green Paper's outright ban on realistic imitation or toy firearms.


Under regulations implementing Britain's 1997 Firearms (Amendment) Act, gun club members must now register every time they use a range, and must record which particular gun they use. If the gun-owner does not use some of his legally-registered guns at the range often enough, his permission to own those guns will be revoked.


However, then Labour Party leaders brought Dunblane spokesperson Anne Pearston to a rally, and, in effect, denounced opponents of a handgun ban as accomplices in the murder of school children. Prime Minister Major, who was already doing badly in the polls, crumbled. He promptly announced that the Conservative government would ban handguns above .22 caliber, and .22 caliber handguns would have to be stored at shooting clubs, not in homes.[159]

A few months later, Labour Party leader Tony Blair was swept into office in a landslide. One of his first acts was to complete the handgun ban by removing the exemption for .22s.[160]



http://www.guncite.com/journals/okslip.html
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  #19  
Old 07-05-2012, 1:59 PM
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The pendulum will swing. If the left can keep us divided we lose. The new California law allowing the top two candidates is the best thing to ever happen. If all the right votes for the right dem. candidate we can win. There are a lot of Dem who have a solid understanding of the second and back it. If they know we can make a difference in them getting elected. Before the new law pelossi and Feinstein couldn't be unseated but now if every one of us voted for the number two candidate we could make a big change.

Just my thoughts on the matter. California is not the worst state against guns either.
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Old 07-05-2012, 2:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate View Post
Once again, thank you UOCers.

Gee,thanks for being so insightful and adding value to the conversation. I am sure UOC folks have not heard that point of view yet. Its very healthy for 2A for us to continue pointing fingers at each other.


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  #21  
Old 07-05-2012, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by glock21fan View Post
so does this now mean locked transportation of long guns?
If AB1527 survives to the end of the legislative session (and there is no reason to believe that it won't) long guns will have to be transported in a locked case. This would be enacted January 2013.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICONIC View Post
If I saw some guy walk into a Starbucks with an AR 15, I am thinking Spree shooter and I am probably going to take you down. What we need in California is ccw. Firearms should be concealed not carried in the open.
Yeah. You sound just like the CCW instructor that told his students that I would be a good shoot if they saw me openly carrying a handgun in public absent any other information. I'm glad he doesn't live anywhere around me either.

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do you also blame all AR owners for SB 249?
^This. It has the same net effect with the legislature as UOC did. The mere fact that such legal things exist is the justification for making it illegal.

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Originally Posted by winnre View Post
Next will be LUCC. Then that will be banned.

Well, maybe not banned. I tend to believe that the legislature will revisit the specified destinations and make it so you can only transport a locked firearm to and from a range, a hunting expedition, or a gun store.

This must end, and the begining of the end is gunowners not sniping each other over petty differences of opinion. Either you like guns or you dont... If you think that open carry, or assault weapons, or large cap mags should be regulated, you belong with the anti-gunners as much as the Brady camp.
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Old 07-05-2012, 2:41 PM
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All the bickering about Open carry VS concealed carry makes me sick and embarrassed to be a part of this community. You people realize your arguing about a personal preference. Just because something works for you doesn't mean it works for other people. I know this will fall on def ears but, stop being so short sided. This is why the anti-gunners win, all try have to do is blame someone else for them 'needing' to pass some legislation and were automatically divided.
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Old 07-05-2012, 2:45 PM
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The truth is that there are a group that act like they live in the world they want to live in, instead of facing the reality of the world we do live in. Like it or not, the 2A is not untouchable. Acting like it is has only gotten us in trouble. So I understand where all of the UOCers are coming from, but time and again their worldview has proven wrong.

Its not that I blame all of them either. But shoving it in peoples faces in OC and So Cal in general is a bad move. Theres a time and a place for it, but i think a small group are ruining it for the rest of us. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 07-05-2012, 2:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklyte27 View Post
Blaming oc'ers is like blaming chocolate made you fat and of course the famous quote "if guns kill people, a spoon made rosie odonnel fat"
That analogy doesn't really work here. People aren't the same as inanimate objects in your comparison. People are making choices and their actions have consequences. Until they realize that even though they are in the right, there are repercussions for what we do and the image we present, nothing will change.
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Old 07-05-2012, 2:53 PM
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That analogy doesn't really work here. People aren't the same as inanimate objects in your comparison. People are making choices and their actions have consequences. Until they realize that even though they are in the right, there are repercussions for what we do and the image we present, nothing will change.
are you saying we should cower and hide behind the fears of the impractical and ignorant so that our rights aren't stripped away for nonsensical reasons?
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watching this state and country operate is like watching a water park burn down. doesn't make sense.
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Team 6 showed up in choppers, it was so cash. Lit his house with red dots like it had a rash. Navy SEALs dashed inside his house, left their heads spinning...then flew off in the night screaming "Duh, WINNING!"
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Old 07-05-2012, 2:56 PM
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It sounds like all of the reenactors in California should be on board with this effort to oppose this legislation as well.

Many of them do various time segments from history and will carry whichever weapon is correct for the impression.

I see historical parades and reenactments going the way of the dodo if this rubbish gets traction and passes.


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Old 07-05-2012, 3:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Why do we calgunners blame , Portantino, Delean. Steinberg , Peratta on and on and on when ONE POLICAL PARTY pushes it ,advances it,votes for it and then signs it !

Nearly every state where this party has a legislative advantage gun rights get hit or NEVER adavance.

Until gun owners hold this party responsiblie for their actions , it will get worse.

I hope everyone is happy with the term limit law ! all it accomplished was us losing good folks who could stop this through procedure and democrat hacks looking for a job with Joyce foundation after their terms end .
You are wrong. It is NOT just Republicans. I admit that Governor Reagan signed the California gun control act and President Reagan signed a Federal one, and Governors Deukmajin (sp?) and Davis signed other gun control acts, and Bush Junior said he would sign a renewed AW ban, still, Republicans haven't done ALL the damage and shouldn't be singled out as the ONE PARTY responsible for gun control. Democrats have done their fair share.
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Old 07-05-2012, 4:54 PM
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How does the gay rights movement go about pushing their agenda? Do they avoid starbucks? Do they avoid being seen in public? Are they afraid of what others think? Do they stick up for their sexual preference only? (gay, les, trans) They march down streets scaring children all the time but they seem to be winning. While I dont think these tactics would all work for gun rights it does show the timidness of our movement. Good thing for CGF (and others) and the fact that we can give $$$$ so others can do most of our dirty work.
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Old 07-05-2012, 5:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
They are trying to take every self defense right we have!

Next is the Slingshot, and Pellet rifle...

We need to START OVER... FROM SCRATCH. It's what they are forcing, very soon...

Yep. Thats my entire difficulty with "progressives." They dont want to progress, they want to demolish. Then reapportion the crumbs according to THEIR standard.
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Old 07-05-2012, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Yemff View Post
If you haven't noticed, these "rights" can be taken away

Only if we lay down like a bunch of pussies. Whats it going to take folks? What law has to be passed before we reach our Concord in 1775 moment? I just hope we still have a few teeth left when we finally bite back.
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Old 07-05-2012, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
It seems your blame of UOC'rs is misplaced. In my view, the fault lays solely with Portantino for advancing this legislation for the mere possibility that individuals or groups might UOC rifles in his district, as there has been no long gun open carry activity designed to attract media attention or the consternation of the legislature.

It is thanks to politicians like Portantino, that people fear the prospect of what activity gun owners might take part in and insist on telling others what is or isnt acceptable based on their own irrational fears.
I blame the UOCers because they intentionally poked the bear. They were warned multiple times that it was a bad idea, yet they wanted to make a point. A political statement. Well they got the bear to wake up, take notice and kick them to the curb. Then the same guys (most notably Pullnshoot's brother, IIRC) made very public rumblings about doing the same thing with long guns. There was also that one posting videos of himself on YouTube UOCing an AR at In and Out and around Costa Mesa. Portiano jumped at the chance to score political points and nip it in the bud.

Instead of being patient with the carry cases currently working thru the system, the UOC crowd screwed the pooch and left it to others to work to fix the mess.
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Old 07-05-2012, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highpowermatch View Post
Gee,thanks for being so insightful and adding value to the conversation. I am sure UOC folks have not heard that point of view yet. Its very healthy for 2A for us to continue pointing fingers at each other.


It's be healthier if people didn't make a mess of things and then complain when called on it. The UOC crowd f'd up. And in doing so they screwed everyone, not just their own political speech. So yeah, maybe they don't want to hear it anymore. Tough.
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Old 07-05-2012, 8:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
are you saying we should cower and hide behind the fears of the impractical and ignorant so that our rights aren't stripped away for nonsensical reasons?
No, not at all. I'm saying that we should be strategic and practical in our application of our rights. As human beings we have inalienable rights, as citizens we should temper our desires with a sense of community and responsibility. If you know that walking into Starbucks with an AR will cause a ruckus, but you want to be able to do that. Then I suggest starting with taking people from your community to the gun range and alleviate their fears before forcing them to confront them.

My dog was afraid of the water. I didn't throw her in the deep end of the pool just because I could. I had a goal and an obstacle to overcome. I slowly made her comfortable in a plastic pool. Then in shallow water where she could tread water and walk around. Then I urged her into the deeper parts of the pool. That is the way most changes are made. Little by little. I didn't "cower and hide" when my dog had a fear, and I don't around people that are afraid of guns. I make them comfortable little by little until they are on my side of gun rights.
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  #34  
Old 07-05-2012, 8:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ICONIC View Post
Spot On. How can we advance the notion that those with firearms are not dangerous or rabid individuals. All you are doing is scaring soccer moms in Starbucks.
perhaps if people with firearms are not acting dangerous or rabidly, people could deduce that the mere presence of a firearm does not make any of them dangerous or rabid. if this were to become commonplace, perhaps even the soccer moms would learn to not be scared.


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Originally Posted by ICONIC View Post
If I saw some guy walk into a Starbucks with an AR 15, I am thinking Spree shooter and I am probably going to take you down. What we need in California is ccw. Firearms should be concealed not carried in the open.
what we need is constitutional carry, so people can carry any way they like. there's no reason open carry should be illegal -- NONE.


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Originally Posted by Highsaw View Post
Guys Im from Washington state, moving to Kalifornia at the end of the week for work and family. I conceal carry here in WA, and most people I know do aswell. Under no circumstance would i ever open carry, nor have I ever seen anyone besides an LEO do so. WTF are you guys thinking?? hurr durr my rights!!! All your doing is stripping rights away from those of us with some common damn sense.
so ... don't do something which is completely legal (which open carry was at the time) because it might be made illegal? that seems to conflict with the notion of citizens living in a free society. you should run for legislative office once you get here; you'll fit right in.


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I blame the UOCers because they intentionally poked the bear. They were warned multiple times that it was a bad idea, yet they wanted to make a point. A political statement. Well they got the bear to wake up, take notice and kick them to the curb.
of course: the fault obviously lies with the citizens who were exercising their constitutional rights, not with the legislators who chose to arrogate those rights. if you apply this line of "reasoning" to the first amendment, reductio ad absurdum takes effect really quickly.
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Last edited by strongpoint; 07-05-2012 at 8:50 PM..
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Old 07-05-2012, 8:50 PM
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What if someone tries to eat my face off under the highway?...
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Old 07-05-2012, 9:00 PM
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what we need is constitutional carry, so people can carry any way they like. there's no reason open carry should be illegal -- NONE.
I agree. We need to be able to carry LOADED and FREELY. Open, concealed doesn't matter. Those cases are working their way thru the system to make that a possibility in CA.

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Originally Posted by strongpoint View Post
of course: the fault obviously lies with the citizens who were exercising their constitutional rights, not with the legislators who chose to arrogate those rights. if you apply this line of "reasoning" to the first amendment, reductio ad absurdum takes effect really quickly.
Oh I blame the legislators for being anti-gun, political hacks too. I just don't believe in the way the majority of the UOC "movement" was conducted. It was designed to provoke a response. It achieved that goal, though the proponents didn't seem to realize that's what was going to happen. Actions have consequences. Some good, some bad. Some unintended. Wisdom is hard earned for those unwilling to listen to the wise before it's playing for keeps.
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Old 07-05-2012, 9:14 PM
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Rather than addressing the different arguments for or against OC'ers, I placed this thread in the hopes people would take the opportunity to practice their 1st amendment rights by petitioning their government. You have the time and opportunity right now. The hearing is over a month away, and the committee members are a helluva lot more influencable than I am at this point. In other words; you have just about zero prospects of getting me to stop open carrying my rifle. But there is a chance you can persuade a committee member or three that this bill is a bridge too far.
I have written a position paper on behalf of Save Our State. Any of you can do the same for whatever organizations you speak for, or just for yourself. You can mail it, e-mail it, or hand carry it into the committee office. The analysis is often based upon the support or opposition letters recieved. You reps, or those committee members don't read each letter you write them, but it is likely they read the analysis. I am urging you all to influence that analysis, and do so soon before it goes to print.

After the legislative remedies are over, whichever way it goes, you are free to berate me, disrespect me, or even attempt kicking my *** over whatever part I played in allegedly causing the bill in the first place. But please, please don't use my actions in that regard as an excuse to avoid taking part in the legislative process in progress right now. That would be a ridiculous, foolish, and losing plan to protect your rights and culture.

As my punishment for allegedly being at the root cause, I will lend my help to anyone who needs it in getting your written word to that committee room. I go to the capitol every week for at least one day. Whatever you need, short of financial aid, (I'm useless for that), I will try my dammedest to accomodate.
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  #38  
Old 07-05-2012, 9:16 PM
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I'm not a fan of UOC, but I respect that others may wish to do so.

I do believe that UOC is a form of free speech.

What someone else says may affect you negatively, and that sucks.

But that is still their right to do so.

UOC was legal and they chose to do so.

Just like the legal filings some individuals have pursued...
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  #39  
Old 07-05-2012, 9:23 PM
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THANK GOD that the founders of this great nation decided that a Bill of Rights was needed or we might very well be in the same boat - at least in CA. We still need to understand that this is where the antis want to take us.

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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
If we do not learn from the past we are doomed to repeat it. Here's what this kind of useless bickering did for the Brits!


In 1903, Parliament enacted a gun control law that appeared eminently reasonable. The Pistols Act of 1903 forbade pistol sales to minors and felons and dictated that sales be made only to buyers with a gun license. The license itself could be obtained at the post office, the only requirement being payment of a fee. People who intended to keep the pistol solely in their house did not even need to get the postal license.

......the British government in 1936 enacted legislation to outlaw (with a few minor exceptions) possession of short-barreled shotguns and fully automatic firearms.[65]

In 1946, the Home Secretary announced a policy change: henceforth, self-defense would not be considered a good reason for being granted a Firearms Certificate.[84]

The next rounds of legislative action were aimed at knives, rather than guns. The 1953 Prevention of Crime Act outlawed the carrying of an "offensive weapon" and put the burden of proof on anyone found with an "offensive weapon," such as a knife, to prove that he had a reasonable excuse. In 1959, the Home Office pushed for, and won, a ban on self-loading knives.

.....Criminal Justice Act of 1967. The new act required a license for the purchase of shotguns.[91]


An example of tranquil-period control was the Firearms Act of 1982, which introduced restrictive licensing for imitation firearms that could be converted to fire live ammunition. The original proposal had been to implement the 1973 Green Paper's outright ban on realistic imitation or toy firearms.


Under regulations implementing Britain's 1997 Firearms (Amendment) Act, gun club members must now register every time they use a range, and must record which particular gun they use. If the gun-owner does not use some of his legally-registered guns at the range often enough, his permission to own those guns will be revoked.


However, then Labour Party leaders brought Dunblane spokesperson Anne Pearston to a rally, and, in effect, denounced opponents of a handgun ban as accomplices in the murder of school children. Prime Minister Major, who was already doing badly in the polls, crumbled. He promptly announced that the Conservative government would ban handguns above .22 caliber, and .22 caliber handguns would have to be stored at shooting clubs, not in homes.[159]

A few months later, Labour Party leader Tony Blair was swept into office in a landslide. One of his first acts was to complete the handgun ban by removing the exemption for .22s.[160]



http://www.guncite.com/journals/okslip.html
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  #40  
Old 07-05-2012, 9:29 PM
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Big difference between posturing to gain a right and make yourself seen and flaunting a right that you already have. Everything has limits. Only a fool pushes until he finds that limit. I someone wants to OC as a means of expressing their 1A rights, then have fun, but realize you do it at the peril of some of our 2A rights.


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Originally Posted by Lc17smp View Post
How does the gay rights movement go about pushing their agenda? Do they avoid starbucks? Do they avoid being seen in public? Are they afraid of what others think? Do they stick up for their sexual preference only? (gay, les, trans) They march down streets scaring children all the time but they seem to be winning. While I dont think these tactics would all work for gun rights it does show the timidness of our movement. Good thing for CGF (and others) and the fact that we can give $$$$ so others can do most of our dirty work.
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