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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 07-03-2012, 7:17 AM
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As another poster stated, CA is one of the most hated states in the country. I have lived here for half a century, and we used to be the beacon of the country; sadly no more. In my travels to other states, whether it is frankly stated or jokingly suggested, a ton of people see CA as annoying, as pretentious, and especially self-centered. It is rare I hear a compliment from a waitress or a project manager concerning CA. And when I see/hear these negative sentiments, firearms NEVER enter the conversation. Nada.

As has been pointed out to me many times, WE have made our bed and need to sleep in it. WE elect the social engineers to office. As my buddy in Austin says, WE have demonstrated a warped ability to consistently elect folks who kill us in every single way. The only way to get CA back on track is to make it more conservative, especially concerning firearms. Does anyone actually see this happening? Even on this board, it is astonishing that a good chunk of people would still elect the same liberal social engineers every single time.

Blaming other states is absurd; we are to blame.
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  #82  
Old 07-03-2012, 9:23 AM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Excuse me Mr. Hey ^^^^

I have delivered no stereotypes and you TOTALLY took my comment out of context. I ONLY referenced people that Supposedly HATE CA. Literally hate CA and Californians as stated by another poster. Your typical eastern blah blah blah is doing nothing here. Oh and Alan Gura grew up in CA
True, our friend from southern NH was a bit confrontational but the "typical eastern blah blah blah" is just as offensive to some of us as the CA stereotype is to you. If you're going to gripe about it being done to you, gotta be careful to not do it to someone else, yes?

Gun owners in every state have problems to deal with. I think NH is dealing with a Republican state senator from Milford who wants to kill constitutional carry, so each state has its challenges.

And "dumbass" is a term of endearment back east - kind of like saying "hey pal" .....
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  #83  
Old 07-03-2012, 9:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
True, my friend from southern NH was a bit confrontational but the "typical eastern blah blah blah" is just as offensive to some of us as the CA stereotype is to you. If you're going to gripe about it being done to you, gotta be careful to not do it to someone else, yes?

Gun owners in every state have problems to deal with. I think NH is dealing with a Republican state senator from Milford who wants to kill constitutional carry, so each state has its challenges.

And "dumbass" is a term of endearment back east - kind of like saying "hey pal" .....
LOL! not in my neck of the woods its not. Thus prompting blah blah blah.
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  #84  
Old 07-03-2012, 9:37 AM
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Originally Posted by oddball View Post
As another poster stated, CA is one of the most hated states in the country. I have lived here for half a century, and we used to be the beacon of the country; sadly no more. In my travels to other states, whether it is frankly stated or jokingly suggested, a ton of people see CA as annoying, as pretentious, and especially self-centered. It is rare I hear a compliment from a waitress or a project manager concerning CA. And when I see/hear these negative sentiments, firearms NEVER enter the conversation. Nada.

As has been pointed out to me many times, WE have made our bed and need to sleep in it. WE elect the social engineers to office. As my buddy in Austin says, WE have demonstrated a warped ability to consistently elect folks who kill us in every single way. The only way to get CA back on track is to make it more conservative, especially concerning firearms. Does anyone actually see this happening? Even on this board, it is astonishing that a good chunk of people would still elect the same liberal social engineers every single time.

Blaming other states is absurd; we are to blame.
I've seen that voters in other states have the luxury of being able to choose between Senators, Representatives, Mayors, state legislators and such that are equally pro-gun. Heck, in some states the Democrats are more pro-gun than the Republicans. But in CA, we often have to choose between equally anti-gun elected officials.

I've never been overly enthusiastic about single issue voting when it means "I'll vote FOR you if you hold this single position" but I wonder if CA gun owners are better off NOT voting for somemone if they are anti-gun. Gun owners are in general a conservative voting lot, but in CA I'd bet we have a fair share of liberal gun owners who could make a dent in a politician's count if they withheld their vote.

I realize there are arguments against such an approach. I think CA voters want to think of themselves as too sophisticated to entertain the single issue voter approach - that's what "the old farts" in FL do when they howl "don't touch Social Security" - but it works, doesn't it?
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  #85  
Old 07-03-2012, 9:44 AM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
LOL! not in my neck of the woods its not. Thus prompting blah blah blah.


I may have stretched its meaning just a bit. Now if you're called a flatlander or a dubba, well - them's fightin' words.
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  #86  
Old 07-03-2012, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
I've seen that voters in other states have the luxury of being able to choose between Senators, Representatives, Mayors, state legislators and such that are equally pro-gun. Heck, in some states the Democrats are more pro-gun than the Republicans. But in CA, we often have to choose between equally anti-gun elected officials.

I've never been overly enthusiastic about single issue voting when it means "I'll vote FOR you if you hold this single position" but I wonder if CA gun owners are better off NOT voting for somemone if they are anti-gun. Gun owners are in general a conservative voting lot, but in CA I'd bet we have a fair share of liberal gun owners who could make a dent in a politician's count if they withheld their vote.

I realize there are arguments against such an approach. I think CA voters want to think of themselves as too sophisticated to entertain the single issue voter approach - that's what "the old farts" in FL do when they howl "don't touch Social Security" - but it works, doesn't it?
Interestingly enough, on the latest Yee fiasco, I only saw ONE of the usual suspects pipe in with anything saying he was supportive and doing something active. In my book, if you own a gun, refuse to support the cause with either time or money, and vote for the same idiots that we are fighting, you're the enemy as well, gun or no gun. When one of our "illustrious" posters referred to this as a "fan club" I wasn't sure whether I wanted to puke or wring their neck. Take a liberal shooting? Most see it as a hobby and nothing more, but the same can be said of conservatives with the same mindset. Something they could easily give up tomorrow and not miss a wink of sleep.

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  #87  
Old 07-03-2012, 10:53 AM
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I am so lucky to be from NV and I consider all gun owners my brothers and sisters, no matter where they live. I have familia in CA and a few friends in CA and I know the crap that goes on there. It makes me furious, no pun intended, to see the politicos in CA trample your Rights as Americans. I would like to see more activism in the Second Amendment Rights Area. I really try to get myself involed and donate when I can to good causes like CGF and the NRA, et al.

I think a lot of the bad vibes from other states is the belief that you all made your own beds and let the gun laws go crazy. Some of the bad vibes come from CA people moving to "free States" and then trying to make that State like CA. I have a neighbor that is from CA and he has told me he wished NV didnt have so many guns or allow assault rifles. I know a few gun guys here in NV that are from CA but they are good guys and know how crappy it is to lose your Rights.

I know you all are outnumbered when it comes to votes, but we have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights that protect us from tyrants, I would like to see more fights based on these grounds than letting the votes negate fundamental Rights, God given Rights.

Godspeed to you all over the wire there, you have a brother on the otherside that is willing to fight the good fight for all our Rights!
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  #88  
Old 07-03-2012, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
LOL! not in my neck of the woods its not. Thus prompting blah blah blah.
Actually it's not a term of endearment either in the South where I'm from, nor in the CA desert where I worked for a decade, nor in the Navy that employed me while I was out in said desert.

Your statement was a stereotype and is the type of thing that even Red Foreman would call you out on.
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  #89  
Old 07-03-2012, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Nodda Duma View Post
Actually it's not a term of endearment either in the South where I'm from, nor in the CA desert where I worked for a decade, nor in the Navy that employed me while I was out in said desert.

Your statement was a stereotype and is the type of thing that even Red Foreman would call you out on.
What stereotype?? And i really don't care about you working in the desert, it was your choice, nor do i care about that you were in the Navy. Millions have served in the Navy, what does that have to do with anything in regards to the OP?

Last edited by taperxz; 07-03-2012 at 4:49 PM..
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  #90  
Old 07-03-2012, 5:39 PM
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As Nevada vistor, who won't have a reciprocal CCW, how is he wrong exactly? No open carry, locked unload carry is the only thing legal and even that is not everywhere. And a firearms in LUC is not ready to defend in any reasonable reaction time. I am not maligning California nor Californians, but he's right.

As for the hate from other states, thee will always be those kinds of personalities and we just have to accept and ignore them. There are many in those other states who support us and empathize as well. When I have dealt with people in many other sets one GUn Broker, I have found friendly, helpful, and empathetic people mostly. Stereotyping them all because of a few loudmouth people who need anger management train gin is exactly what you complain they are doing to us. I just ignore haters.
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  #91  
Old 07-03-2012, 7:11 PM
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Getting people in "free" states to do this is difficult for two reasons. The first is what the OP experienced - they've written California off as irredeemable. Not only does that lead to all the "Kommiefornia" hate, but it also means that they refuse to hear that the cases being brought in California are actually important.

The other part of it is that they generally are so passive about gun rights, because they don't see theirs as at all threatened, that they really just couldn't give a rat's behind, either about Californians' problems, or about the efforts to solve them. Go on the legal/2A pages of state-centric forums for these states, and it's not unusual to go a whole week without a single post, and if there is one, it's usually just someone who wants to know if this or that is legal. They also tend to be very anti-litigation, because they believe, since it's that way in their state(s), that gun rights issues can and should be solved legislatively, and that the courts are a poor venue for settling gun rights questions.

These, of course, are generalizations that don't hold true for everyone, but they represent what I've seen as the dominant views in the "free" states where I'm actively involved in gun issues and discussions.

Last edited by GaryV; 07-03-2012 at 7:14 PM..
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  #92  
Old 07-04-2012, 12:57 AM
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but in CA I'd bet we have a fair share of liberal gun owners who could make a dent in a politician's count if they withheld their vote.
+1

That would be me.
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  #93  
Old 07-04-2012, 1:12 AM
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I just came back from (B)arfCom, after the **** I saw there I ain't going back.

Some people there (not all, a few were polite and sympathetic to our fight) wanted California to "fall in the ocean" and consider anyone from California "Fascist/Communist/(insert derogatory here) etc.".

I wanted to remind them that "What happens in California will happen to you too", but then I remembered that feeding trolls/idiots/deadbeats was a bad idea...


But it got me thinking about this....

How exactly do we enlist aid/support from the "Free" states, and (preferably nice/polite) Gun owners all over the country?

We didn't ASK for our laws to happen, things happened beyond our control (at the time) and we got screwed big time for it.

But apparently some "gun owners" are so selfish and ignorant that they'd be willing to throw honest gun-loving people like me under the bus to save their own hide/guns just because I hail from (was born and raised too) the State of California...

It makes me sick just thinking about it that there are people like that in our society...

Any CalGunners that live in free states care to chime in? How does your state view us?

This applies even to CalGunners that moved out of California because of the laws.

Despite what "some" people think, you aren't cowards in my book, in fact I would have done the same thing if I had the resources too and if I didn't have family ties and very close friends here.

Although I will eventually move out of California (even if laws improve, I've always wanted to live in Vegas), I will continue the fight even after being "freed"!

You shouldn't turn your back on the anti-gunners, especially right now since they have little support

But that could change at anytime
Perhaps the "free" states want CA to go as deeply down the gun-control hole as possible so they can serve as a exemplar of why they should remain "free" states.
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  #94  
Old 07-04-2012, 1:25 AM
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we have to show them we can actually win. nobody wants to back a loser and right now we look like a loser.
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  #95  
Old 07-04-2012, 5:42 AM
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My sentiments go out to gun owners in California. Being from Alabama my support is directed towards a grass roots Alabama Group, "Alabama Open Carry". After that I am a life member+ of the SAF and the NRA. I am also a member of the GOA. I hope the last three groups somewhat help you out.

Until I started hanging around here a little, and seeing quite a few supportive gun owners, there was no love for California from this guy. I will admit to have been of the "hope it falls into the sea" crowd. Probably no different than you guys thinking everyone from Alabama is a redneck hick. I guess it is all the mindset.

Someone on page two made the comment of "try to grow marijuana there, and have an abortion in Mississippi. Me on the other hand was thinking 'good for Mississippi'.


I wish the gun owners and conservatives in California well, but it seems to me there is no hope really- not on just the gun issue- but on debt, immigration, and a host of other issues.

As for the guns, is there a line in the sand somewhere?
Please don't hand them over
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  #96  
Old 07-04-2012, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by robertmcm View Post
My sentiments go out to gun owners in California. Being from Alabama my support is directed towards a grass roots Alabama Group, "Alabama Open Carry". After that I am a life member+ of the SAF and the NRA. I am also a member of the GOA. I hope the last three groups somewhat help you out.

Until I started hanging around here a little, and seeing quite a few supportive gun owners, there was no love for California from this guy. I will admit to have been of the "hope it falls into the sea" crowd. Probably no different than you guys thinking everyone from Alabama is a redneck hick. I guess it is all the mindset.

Someone on page two made the comment of "try to grow marijuana there, and have an abortion in Mississippi. Me on the other hand was thinking 'good for Mississippi'.



I wish the gun owners and conservatives in California well, but it seems to me there is no hope really- not on just the gun issue- but on debt, immigration, and a host of other issues.

As for the guns, is there a line in the sand somewhere?
Please don't hand them over
what I put in bold is the typical hypocritical response I would expect from some. Wher I personally am not for abortion I certainly am not the one to say no.

Looking at the statement you made about abortion, you could also substitute the same word with guns. The way you feel about abortion, many feel the same way about guns. Don't you get it?

Last edited by taperxz; 07-04-2012 at 7:57 AM..
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  #97  
Old 07-04-2012, 8:22 AM
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I wanted to remind them that "What happens in California will happen to you too"
I'm from CA, was born there, left in '91. When I first left, I didn't rule out someday moving back....until I'd lived outside CA for a few years and began to realize that CA is decidedly not the center of the universe, and "what happens in CA will not necessarily happen elsewhere". The "as goes CA, so goes the nation" mentality, which gets repeated constantly by Californians, is not the case when it comes to gun laws. Continually repeating that tends to be seen by some in other states as a spoiled brat saying that their way is the way everything will someday be. It isn't so, try to refrain from that phrase, it doesn't bear scrutiny.


Quote:

We didn't ASK for our laws to happen, things happened beyond our control (at the time) and we got screwed big time for it.
You personally may not have asked for your laws but the majority of your fellow Californians voted for the people that instituted them.

Quote:
Any CalGunners that live in free states care to chime in? How does your state view us?
I don't think any gun owners in other states have negative views about the actual gun owners in CA, but the view of CA state laws and politics is not favorable. At all.

One thing that really gets peoples hackles raised is when people from California or the Northeastern States move to states with more relaxed firearm laws and eagerly try to remold their new state into the same place they came from.

My next-door neighbors are from DC and knocked on my fence once to borrow a hose and it just happened to be when I was cleaning a few of my suppressors. They acted like they'd seen me assembling a bomb in my backyard! "Silencers are ILLEGAL you know! - well, actually, we aren't in DC anymore and no, they are not illegal at all.

My neighbors across the street are from NY (wife) and MA (husband) and before they knew what some of my hobbies were, told me that they could not believe that there were so many people out here in CO that are so accepting of guns. They said they'd be very uncomfortable being around anyone that owned a gun.

A close friend of mine from Huntington Beach visits my place in CO as well as my home in FL periodically and the last time he was here he commented "there's SO MANY GUNS in CO".....this was after a meeting he had at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs and he noticed the gate sentry had a sidearm. That, was the only gun he saw all day, but that was "so many guns".

Gun forums that are not specific to CA are not anti-Californian in terms of individual people, but many do see the culture in CA as being unfriendly to firearms ownership. The view is no different than how Chicago, New York, or other such places are viewed. When you look at which politicians are constantly trying to infringe on gun rights, the same set of states are always their origin: CA/IL/NY/NJ
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  #98  
Old 07-04-2012, 9:02 AM
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[QUOTE=taperxz;8856290]Then how come everyone moved here to make us the most populated state?[/QUOT


immigration is a big part of that.....
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Old 07-04-2012, 9:10 AM
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[QUOTE=cortayack;8869784]
Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Then how come everyone moved here to make us the most populated state?[/QUOT


immigration is a big part of that.....
Hmmm. I wonder if anyone from CGF is a successful trans plant from another state? A true fighter for CA rights?
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Old 07-04-2012, 9:38 AM
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Hmmm. I wonder if anyone from CGF is a successful trans plant from another state? A true fighter for CA rights?
Let us be honest, legal arguments aside your state does not have a right but a "privilege to keep and bear arms". This is the way Californians like it.


Californians, by an overwhelming 63-to-27 percent, said they would be more inclined to support a candidate who favors gun control laws, the poll shows.

And by 64-to-30 percent, they believe it is more important to impose greater gun control than to protect the rights of Americans to bear arms, the poll showed. Democrats overwhelmingly hold such beliefs, 79 to 16 percent, and Republicans were almost split, 45 to 49 percent. Independents, too, said gun control outweighs Second Amendment rights, 55 to 35 percent.

From a state poll taken in 2000 on gun control.

-http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Most-in-State-Want-Stronger-Gun-Control-Poll-2911689.php


Another poll conducted by the LA times in 2003:



LOS ANGELES TIMES
Conducted 11/15-18/03; surveyed 1,345 adults; margin of error +/-3%. Subsample: 1,144 registered voters, margin of error +/-3% (release, 11/20). A response of * indicates less than 0.5 percent.


What is your personal view on gun control laws? Generally speaking, do you think they ought to be more strict than they are now or less strict, or do you think the laws we have now are about right?

All Lib Mod Con Dem Ind GOP Men Wom
More strict 48% 67% 50% 37% 63% 49% 30% 39% 58%
Less strict 12 6 12 14 9 11 19 17 7
About right 35 25 35 43 25 36 47 39 31
Don't know 5 2 3 6 3 4 4 5 4



http://www3.nationaljournal.com/memb...ncontrol.htm#4


Bottom line ,you guys are beating your heads against a wall.There is no fight, because for the most part California voters minds' are made up on the subject. They want stronger gun laws, logic and truth be damned. Gun owners? The community of gun owners is so small in CA its probably under the "margin of error" on poll sheets. As such the politicos can freely ignore our group with no consequences. Until that community of gun owners grows, don't plan on using any new model 30 round mags.

Last edited by SilverTauron; 07-04-2012 at 9:41 AM..
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Old 07-04-2012, 9:48 AM
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Silver, Where I live, assuming you have an LTC, the only laws affecting me are the roster and AWB that truly affect ME. I'm not saying other laws don't affect others.

With that being said, other states who call themselves "free" are not so free when it comes to other civil rights. In fact many gun owners in those states enjoy suppressing the rights of others on those issues. Calling some of those states "free" is truly hypocrital.
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:30 AM
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Silver, Where I live, assuming you have an LTC, the only laws affecting me are the roster and AWB that truly affect ME. I'm not saying other laws don't affect others.

With that being said, other states who call themselves "free" are not so free when it comes to other civil rights. In fact many gun owners in those states enjoy suppressing the rights of others on those issues. Calling some of those states "free" is truly hypocrital.
The topic of discussion here is the idea of other states helping CA with your little Bill of Rights problem. My response is that the problem isn't a lack of support OUTSIDE California, so much as your own voting base is willingly choosing to outlaw the RKBA of their own free will. I daresay more people care about the state of the RKBA in California outside the border than your own voters do.

I do not know how often you leave California, but after travelling across the US ive noticed that states which abide by the 2nd Amendment tend to respect the rest of the Constitution just as much.

The idea of a cop illegally searching your car in South Dakota is point blank unheard of, and "no-knock warrants" are some thing you see on the news from some other place.Loaded Open Carry is legal here, and exercising it will not provoke near the acrimony it did -with an unloaded gun mind-in California, with all the drama on felony stops and guys with M4's covering the corner. Its my experience that if a state or city wipes their rear with the 2nd Amendment, they consider the rest of the Bill of Rights toilet paper as well and behave accordingly.


In California a cop can legally enter your vehicle without consent if they know a gun is within. That's a simultaneous violation of the 2nd and 4th Amendment in one statute, yet that's considered socially acceptable in your state. That sort of thing is called an unconstitutional search in the rest of America.
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:39 AM
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what I put in bold is the typical hypocritical response I would expect from some. Wher I personally am not for abortion I certainly am not the one to say no.

Looking at the statement you made about abortion, you could also substitute the same word with guns. The way you feel about abortion, many feel the same way about guns. Don't you get it?
Well to me it is all about values, and liberty. The problem with liberty is that it requires responsibility. Responsibility is a big word. For the most part the subject you quoted me on can be avoided with responsibility.
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:42 AM
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Well to me it is all about values, and liberty. The problem with liberty is that it requires responsibility. Responsibility is a big word. For the most part the subject you quoted me on can be avoided with responsibility.
Isn't responsibility in the eyes of the beholder just as it is with firearms? Accidents happen?
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:19 AM
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The topic of discussion here is the idea of other states helping CA with your little Bill of Rights problem. My response is that the problem isn't a lack of support OUTSIDE California, so much as your own voting base is willingly choosing to outlaw the RKBA of their own free will. I daresay more people care about the state of the RKBA in California outside the border than your own voters do.

I do not know how often you leave California, but after travelling across the US ive noticed that states which abide by the 2nd Amendment tend to respect the rest of the Constitution just as much.

The idea of a cop illegally searching your car in South Dakota is point blank unheard of, and "no-knock warrants" are some thing you see on the news from some other place.Loaded Open Carry is legal here, and exercising it will not provoke near the acrimony it did -with an unloaded gun mind-in California, with all the drama on felony stops and guys with M4's covering the corner. Its my experience that if a state or city wipes their rear with the 2nd Amendment, they consider the rest of the Bill of Rights toilet paper as well and behave accordingly.


In California a cop can legally enter your vehicle without consent if they know a gun is within. That's a simultaneous violation of the 2nd and 4th Amendment in one statute, yet that's considered socially acceptable in your state. That sort of thing is called an unconstitutional search in the rest of America.
While I agree that this is by far the biggest part of the problem, I do wish more politically interested gun owners in other states were more cognizant of the potential for good and bad national law to be made in California on the issue of guns.

I now live in one of the "free" states, and am active on the major state forums here. My earlier post points out by far the majority view of people who frequent those forums. They have simply written California off, and won't even entertain the idea that what happens there could affect them.

They have no desire or interest in even hearing about gun issues in California, except to have something to ridicule. They certainly would never even remotely consider giving moral, or, God forbid, monetary, support to the fight in the courts in California, even though the outcomes really could eventually be important to them. They just can't/won't accept that possibility.

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Old 07-04-2012, 11:56 AM
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Isn't responsibility in the eyes of the beholder just as it is with firearms? Accidents happen?
That's a cop out. Irresponsibility happens. But if that is what you have to tell yourself.......
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:26 PM
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That's a cop out. Irresponsibility happens. But if that is what you have to tell yourself.......
Oh I'm sorry, of course you have never made a mistake, had an accident or done anything wrong unintentionally in your life, but frown upon others who have. If YOU had your own state, would you consider it a free state or an oppressive one? Just asking.
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:37 PM
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Oh I'm sorry, of course you have never made a mistake, had an accident or done anything wrong unintentionally in your life, but frown upon others who have. If YOU had your own state, would you consider it a free state or an oppressive one? Just asking.
I have made plenty of mistakes, and yes an accident. I took responsibility for it. Anything else would have been a cop out.

Responsibility works, try it sometime.

It would be a free state, but that wouldn't mean someone could harm a life because they are an idiot
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Old 07-04-2012, 1:21 PM
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I have made plenty of mistakes, and yes an accident. I took responsibility for it. Anything else would have been a cop out.

Responsibility works, try it sometime.

It would be a free state, but that wouldn't mean someone could harm a life because they are an idiot
Question remains. Who are you to decide or make judgement on other peoples civil rights. Whether you would apply those rights to yourself or not.

Calling others idiots IMHO for exercising a right is too a cop out. No?
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Old 07-04-2012, 1:59 PM
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Los Angeles and San Francisco are the fountainheads of California's liberal nature.

Los Angeles and San Francisco (especially LA) are largely populated by people from out of state.

As a native Californian living in LA, my city feels like the target of a liberal "free-state project". They come here, they vote, and then their neighbors back home criticize us.

Native Californians are treated as a novelty here in LA (at least by the young Hollywood crowd). "OMG, you were actually born here?!"
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Old 07-04-2012, 2:47 PM
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taper: I live in Florida. Please enlighten us as to which "civil rights" the Sunshine State violates.
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Old 07-04-2012, 2:50 PM
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What do you expect us to do? We can't vote out the crappy CA politicians.

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Old 07-04-2012, 2:59 PM
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taper: I live in Florida. Please enlighten us as to which "civil rights" the Sunshine State violates.
I'm not picking on one state. Just saying that there are other states that are pro gun, some of those folks choose to dislike ca for that but trample other rights or at least infringe on them.
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Old 07-04-2012, 3:10 PM
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What do you expect us to do? We can't vote out the crappy CA politicians.
Well, technically we can, we just don't have enough votes to do so
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Old 07-04-2012, 3:24 PM
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Question remains. Who are you to decide or make judgement on other peoples civil rights. Whether you would apply those rights to yourself or not.

Calling others idiots IMHO for exercising a right is too a cop out. No?
Exercising what right? Do you think harming a life is some sort of civil right? You are twisted.
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Old 07-04-2012, 3:27 PM
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Exercising what right? Do you think harming a life is some sort of civil right? You are twisted.
It's not my preference, but the supreme court thinks that right exists.
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Old 07-04-2012, 3:34 PM
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Perhaps when it comes to law and politics, it would be helpful to not employ emotions into the subject. This is clearly something you have emotions about. I do too! I'm speaking within the rhelm of the law and constitution here.

Keep in mind there are people out there that are just as emotional about guns as you are about abortion.
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Old 07-04-2012, 4:29 PM
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Perhaps when it comes to law and politics, it would be helpful to not employ emotions into the subject. This is clearly something you have emotions about. I do too! I'm speaking within the rhelm of the law and constitution here.

Keep in mind there are people out there that are just as emotional about guns as you are about abortion.
Nothing you have said changes anything I originally said. The difference in laws and such is a reflection of the values and beliefs of the people of your state. Someone mentioned Mississippi where people don't kill babies because of convenience issues. In Mississippi with the proper license, you can carry inside the courthouse. Buy Colt LE 6920s at the local Walmart for 1075. Totally different set of core values. This isn't just about guns though. Guns are just a side show of the big show.
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Old 07-04-2012, 5:10 PM
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Nothing you have said changes anything I originally said. The difference in laws and such is a reflection of the values and beliefs of the people of your state. Someone mentioned Mississippi where people don't kill babies because of convenience issues. In Mississippi with the proper license, you can carry inside the courthouse. Buy Colt LE 6920s at the local Walmart for 1075. Totally different set of core values. This isn't just about guns though. Guns are just a side show of the big show.

Still, how free are "free states". When certain state policies deprive others of what they may want. For instance, IF you are into growing pot, with the med card, you are free to do so here. I guess "free" is also in the eyes of the beholder. People into pot may consider CA the most free state in the union.

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Old 07-04-2012, 5:31 PM
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Still, how free are "free states". When certain state policies deprive others of what they may want. For instance, IF you are into growing pot, with the med card, you are free to do so here. I guess "free" is also in the eyes of the beholder. People into pot may consider CA the most free state in the union.
True, I wont argue with you there. I think if I had to live there I would get me a dope card the first week.
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