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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-01-2012, 10:57 PM
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Exclamation How to get "Free" states to help us or stand with us?

I just came back from (B)arfCom, after the **** I saw there I ain't going back.

Some people there (not all, a few were polite and sympathetic to our fight) wanted California to "fall in the ocean" and consider anyone from California "Fascist/Communist/(insert derogatory here) etc.".

I wanted to remind them that "What happens in California will happen to you too", but then I remembered that feeding trolls/idiots/deadbeats was a bad idea...


But it got me thinking about this....

How exactly do we enlist aid/support from the "Free" states, and (preferably nice/polite) Gun owners all over the country?

We didn't ASK for our laws to happen, things happened beyond our control (at the time) and we got screwed big time for it.

But apparently some "gun owners" are so selfish and ignorant that they'd be willing to throw honest gun-loving people like me under the bus to save their own hide/guns just because I hail from (was born and raised too) the State of California...

It makes me sick just thinking about it that there are people like that in our society...

Any CalGunners that live in free states care to chime in? How does your state view us?

This applies even to CalGunners that moved out of California because of the laws.

Despite what "some" people think, you aren't cowards in my book, in fact I would have done the same thing if I had the resources too and if I didn't have family ties and very close friends here.

Although I will eventually move out of California (even if laws improve, I've always wanted to live in Vegas), I will continue the fight even after being "freed"!

You shouldn't turn your back on the anti-gunners, especially right now since they have little support

But that could change at anytime
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:01 PM
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ask nicely. If that does not work, there aint much that can be done short of their heads in the sand catching up to them (read: crap gun laws in their states)

If they will support us and help, good for them.

If they will not, then they are not important to us. we should not waste our energies on them
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:27 PM
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I will be living in AZ in roughly 2 weeks. On an AZ gun forum I received attention from members indicating not to Californicate the state. Other than that, I was warmly greeted by the members and others that were ex-Californians.

The difficultly is that you have to change the established image of what a Californian is. It takes considerable time and effort to adjust the cemented image.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:36 PM
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explain to the free states that california is the most populous state, that means there is a lot of money spent here. if other states will not help our gun rights that means their businesses will lose plenty of west coast customers after we get all weapons banned.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:39 PM
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I've been dealing with this for years and I usually seem to receive the same responses over and over when someone finds out I'm a Gun Owning Californian and that usually is
(You should move to a free state). There are two groups of Gun owners in this country from my perspective; Those that are active in educating others as well as fighting for our 2A rights. Then there are those (i.e like in the ARFCOM thread) that just purchase guns and arm chair quarterback everything others do pertaining to those fighting for their rights to keep enjoying their 2A rights.

I think its extremely important to try and educate others whenever possible. I tend to make the point across that if there are no longer people willing to stay in this state and fight the good fight then senseless Anti-Gun legislation will spread to other states such as theirs. I've posted some threads on some pretty well known and respected Firearms/Mil/LEO forums about SB249 and have very positive results and support. Don't let a bunch of ignorant internet Commando's stop you from trying to gain support to aid Pro-2A legislation or to stop Anti-2A legislation.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:18 AM
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For the most part Free State gun owners are well supportive of the legislative and legal fight in CA for the RKBA.There are always mall ninja sects who will give voice to the moronic idea of writing CA off,and unfortunately one loudmouth of that idea will get ten times the notice of out of state members quietly doing their part to support the 'war effort'.I don't live in CA and need not trifle with Mag locks ,but that didn't stop my South Dakota self from signing the anti SB249 petition and posting it on my Facebook.


As far as the 'move out of state' business is concerned neither side has any business passing judgement.CA gun owners shouldn't hurl accusations like 'traitor'at people moving for a whole host of reasons,and out of state gun owner better come up with a superior solution for bad gun laws than mandating you pack up your family and livelihood.The reasons to relocate from one part of America to another should never be considered lightly.I wouldn't willingly move to CA,but then I work in a field which doesn't mandate that I do.A friend of mine that I introduced to shooting in SD doesn't have that luxury,because the only colleges of note which offer his area of study are in California,Chicago,or NYC.If he's gonna be disarmed no matter what he may as well get some sunshine for the balance.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:22 AM
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Hello,

The majority of gun owners in Indiana see states like California, Mass, etc as draconian nanny states that thrive on socialist ideals.

There's really not much we can do to be quite honest. I could refuse to export my products to Cali, but honestly, who would that really hurt?

I've done my letter writing. A friend from Shooters.com by the handle of Don OTMW lived in your state. He would get so uptight about the laws that his heart finally blew on him. Massive heart attack and he's no longer with us.

The current thinking is to help folks get out of Cali if you can and let the ocean reclaim the land.

If there's anything we're missing, let me know and I'll try to spread it. I'm honestly out of ideas though.

I am of the thought that soon the laws won't matter, but that's hypothesis. Fact is that it will happen, maybe just not soon.

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Old 07-02-2012, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Smith View Post

The current thinking is to help folks get out of Cali if you can and let the ocean reclaim the land.


Josh
And what of the refugees of such a disaster?

All those displaced liberals gotta live somewhere. Ill state for the record South Dakota's fresh outta room.

All kidding aside we're not gonna win this fight by playing the "Denial" card. I refuse to stick my head in the dirt and pretend all's well with the nation because my state doesn't happen to infringe on my rights today. Once upon a time California wasn't much different than South Dakota or Indiana. For reasons I can't outline, socialist policy tends to be strongest in the most populated cities of any given state no matter how "Red" the territory is as a whole. Every "Free" state is subject to becoming the next California or Illinois with one shift of the population dynamic. Id rather keep the monster of the nanny state contained by law and judicial precedent, lest the RKBA in my neck of the woods become lost as I slept the slumber of the complacent.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2012, 1:35 AM
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We here on this forum didnt ask for the laws: we are simply out-voted by the major metropolitan areas of the state that have devolved ("progressed" for you lefties) into a permanent soylent green condition. The only states I am familiar with are AZ and UT, both of which have the attitude "leave your CA bull**** at the state line." What they dont see is that membership in the NRA is not sufficient in and of itself anymore. I dont know what the answer to your question is.
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2012, 1:38 AM
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You can't do anything because they don't know our hardships, other than under clinton and soon to be BHO. The fact that all of our politicians are far left loons is a huge problem for them.... I do not blame them....and you shouldn't either. We are the ones still choosing to live in this anti-civil rights state. Nothing you can do other than feed the NRA, that will help.
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2012, 6:55 AM
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How about, "build it and they will come?"

What we need to figure out is what to build.....

I'm not talking about encouraging people to move here permanently but start building events to attract people of our understanding (pro - 2a's).

Convention in San Diego, specifically on the 2a? Wildhawker???

Once we've figured out the event, then we need to work to fill it.

Conventions here breed cultures of thought and interest in subjects.
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Old 07-02-2012, 6:55 AM
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Here is how I got some support from shooters in free states http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=665686

In my original post over there, I got all of the same BS, "California can suck it", etc. The mods over there actually stepped in and we re-posted it into a productive thread that actually got quite a few people to sign the StopSB249 petition. I think that the light bulb is starting to come on and at least some people out of state are beginning to realize that we all stand or fall together and if we fall, the too will eventually fall.

It is tough to change people's opinions, but if you are at least a bit eloquent, can use some logic and are polite, at least some of the people who think that way will have a change of heart.
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Old 07-02-2012, 7:00 AM
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Start supporting the NRA the 2AF and any other non-locational 2nd amendment legislative and litigation groups, along with any non-locational groups that fight the spread of eco-extremism, the HSUS and any other anti-liberty, pro-big brother groups and push THEM back into the sea.
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Old 07-02-2012, 7:08 AM
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CA represents approximately 12% of the House of Representatives (Congress), which makes it the most from any one state in the Union.

Therefore, CA can affect a lot of Federal laws.

Non-residents needs to be involved in and support the pro-gun movement in CA, to ensure anti-gun politicians do not get elected and mess with Federal gun laws.
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  #15  
Old 07-02-2012, 7:44 AM
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Is any state really free. I have always hated that term, cause they are not!

Californians have more ability to be free and boast freedoms most other states don't enjoy!

Put it this way would you want to be free in a shoe box like Indiana or free to enjoy all that this state has to offer.
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Old 07-02-2012, 7:48 AM
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Put it this way would you want to be free in a shoe box like Indiana or free to enjoy all that this state has to offer.
Gladly. To me, palm trees and nice weather aren't worth being treated like prisoner of war every time I hit the range. A free shoebox > a communist tropical paradise.
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Old 07-02-2012, 7:57 AM
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Gladly. To me, palm trees and nice weather aren't worth being treated like prisoner of war every time I hit the range. A free shoebox > a communist tropical paradise.
And this place has less and less to offer everyday.

How many state parks are they going to close this year, 2/3rds of them?

I have a pro and con list, the only pro I can come up with is the weather. I'll learn to live without it I'm sure.

Course its different for everyone. I want to live and enjoy my life and do right by family now, and its only going to get worse before it gets better. Also, I am not a prepper, but I dont want to be hanging around when the welfare looters and zombies decide to 'share the wealth', the dems take 2/3 and repeal Prop 13 (which will happen) or if the feds start to act more aggressive towards the states. This place (LA) is ground zero for everything wrong with this country. I owe it to my family to provide for them.

I still intend to send money back to CGF to fight, whatever your opinion, the stupid **** that California does only emboldens these left wing saboteurs and terrorists. We are going somewhere they get the same 'welcome' I get here at home. A place I pray cant be 'californiacated', at least not in my lifetime. Its worth helping California in the fight for that reason alone.

Whatever evil and mischief liberals do to people here, you can bet they will try and do to someone somewhere else. As someone that came back to California from a free state, I can say that most people take their situation for granted. I would never have believed Americans could be so viciously stupid until we moved back here. I was generally uninterested politics and moderate in my views. It only took two years of seeing our democrat utopia before I was scared bad enough to make a run for it. We live in prison city complete with guards and buzzing helicopters. For the 90% rural part of the state, the coast is going to drag you under, but I am sure you know that already....
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  #18  
Old 07-02-2012, 7:59 AM
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Gladly. To me, palm trees and nice weather aren't worth being treated like prisoner of war every time I hit the range. A free shoebox > a communist tropical paradise.
I don't what you're complaining about. Up here I have no problems shooting wherever I want. I guess it all depends where in CA you choose to live.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:03 AM
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I don't what you're complaining about. Up here I have no problems shooting wherever I want. I guess it all depends where in CA you choose circumstancesd allow you to live.
More appropriate. Keep in mind, if everyone lived where you do instead of other places, where you are wouldn't be like it is now. Somewhere else would be the nice place you could hunt and fish.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:06 AM
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More appropriate. Keep in mind, if everyone lived where you do instead of other places, where you are wouldn't be like it is now. Somewhere else would be the nice place you could hunt and fish.
There are millions of acres to hunt and fish in this state. Ive heard many SoCal people say stuff like, " I've been to NorCal ". Only to find that they made it all the way to Santa Barbara
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:08 AM
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What boggles my mind is why people in free states wouldn't want to support those of us trying to make things better here in Cali.

It's like we're the troops stuck fighting behind enemy lines and the guys back at base are mocking us instead of sending us air support. I don't get it.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:09 AM
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There are millions of acres to hunt and fish in this state. Ive heard many SoCal people say stuff like, " I've been to NorCal ". Only to find that they made it all the way to Santa Barbara
Indeed, Lake County puts a different spin on things. The closer you get to the heart of darkness, the gloomier your perspective becomes. The state is so large and so diverse and 90% rural I understand, that no one situation can work for everyone.

We thought about heading north, but I dont understand the point of making a major move only to stay inside the wire. If you are going to do it, just jump the fence, thats my opinon. Its like a guy moving his family from Mexico City to Tijuana... One step furthur and you're free, why stop on the line?

If we were already there, it would be different.
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  #23  
Old 07-02-2012, 8:11 AM
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There is little you can do with some people. Those who see California and its people as some sort of commie enemies - well, those people are usually ignorant morons there is little to do about. They like to scapegoat, and they usually are their own worst enemies when it comes to defending 2A rights.

Then there are people who simply don't know, but are willing to learn. Then it's just about talking with them. I think a lot of us do that when we travel (or when out-of-staters visit). I'm sure some of you have surprised friends or visitors from the South or the Midwest when they realized that yes, you can own an AR in California.

And then there are random acts like telling California-hating Gunbroker sellers that you would have loved to buy that C&R rifle from them, but they lost a sale because of their idiotics terms of sale. Once in a while, you'll get an email back from a seller who had previously displayed a "No sale to California" stance and who is now reconsidering, because hey, money talks.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Laser Sailor View Post
What boggles my mind is why people in free states wouldn't want to support those of us trying to make things better here in Cali.

It's like we're the troops stuck fighting behind enemy lines and the guys back at base are mocking us instead of sending us air support. I don't get it.
Because they are envious of the economic opportunities, they fear the housing prices, ect. It's no different than back in 1849, when only nut cases ventured out here and only the failures moved back east from here.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:15 AM
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Because they are envious of the economic opportunities, they fear the housing prices, ect. It's no different than back in 1849, when only nut cases ventured out here and only the failures moved back east from here.
Okay, now thats a joke right?
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:17 AM
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Indeed, Lake County puts a different spin on things. The closer you get to the heart of darkness, the gloomier your perspective becomes. The state is so large and so diverse and 90% rural I understand, that no one situation can work for everyone.

We thought about heading north, but I dont understand the point of making a major move only to stay inside the wire. If you are going to do it, just jump the fence, thats my opinon. Its like a guy moving his family from Mexico City to Tijuana... One step furthur and you're free, why stop on the line?

If we were already there, it would be different.
The ONLY freedom other states have on us is a FEW gun laws which will change
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:20 AM
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Try growing pot in Indiana, how does a woman get an abortion in Mississippi? Does anyone really enjoy cabin fever in the northern states? Horribly hot summers in the South?
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:21 AM
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Okay, now thats a joke right?
No it's true! Again depending on where you live.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:22 AM
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The ONLY freedom other states have on us is a FEW gun laws which will change
I totally disagree. I dont want to derail this thread, but I can barely do my job for the forest of rules, regulations, illegal competion that operates with the support of 'sanctuary cities' and on and on... I break so many laws to get paid, I might as well sell drugs. And I am house painter... I work for some of the wealthest people in the state. They can afford to be crooked, I cant. My idea of starting my own legit business has gone the way of a pot heads smoke dream... Of course I can just do what everyone else does, work for cash, hire illegals, drive to ventura to buy paint thinner...

Do other states have an equvilent to CARB/AQMD? That right there is enough for me.

If the thread is about supporting CA from over the wire, I do agree with that. If the type of people that have run this state into the ground can spread their ideas, they will. They should be opposed at all costs.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:23 AM
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There are millions of acres to hunt and fish in this state. Ive heard many SoCal people say stuff like, " I've been to NorCal ". Only to find that they made it all the way to Santa Barbara
You make the supposition that everyone has the means and opportunity to live where you do. We don't. I for one, have to live close enough to my ex-wife to be a responsible father, which is my first and primary duty, regardless of how much living where I can hunt and fish tro my hearts content would be nice. Others have situations that also will not allow them to live in your back yard. You have the means and opportunity. That's great, but flatly stating we could all do it simply because you can is a fallacy.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:28 AM
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You make the supposition that everyone has the means and opportunity to live where you do. We don't. I for one, have to live close enough to my ex-wife to be a responsible father, which is my first and primary duty, regardless of how much living where I can hunt and fish tro my hearts content would be nice. Others have situations that also will not allow them to live in your back yard. You have the means and opportunity. That's great, but flatly stating we could all do it simply because you can is a fallacy.
Transplant yourself to any city in the country and tell me how things would be different?
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:30 AM
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It is my opinion that most gun owners in the so called 'freestates' are unaware of how draconian the gun laws in CA are. Whenever I mention a few of the laws to various people I come across in some of the states I live in, they are apalled and shocked to hear it!

I recently was reading one of the CRPA threads, where the question was asked how to get more gunowners to join. In the free states, I would almost guess that membership is even a lower percentage (no stats to back up this opinion) than in CA. So even if these state wide orgs are supporting the CRPA, CGF, etc, the average owner is still in the dark.

If those free state orgs could raise the awareness of their in state owners, get them involved, then maybe those orgs could bring whatever influence they may have in support of the CRPA, CGF, etc.

Look at some of the NRA stats- it seems that even its membership is far less than a significant percentage of total gun owners in the US.

So I believe it comes down to educating those 'free state' gun owners that CA, IL, et al have become a poster children for over reaching gun control legislation, which is of equal importance, regardless of where that gun owner happens to reside.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:32 AM
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The only problem with those outside the state is the complexity of our written laws and their unwillingness to try to understand them. It's also laziness. If I was an out of state FFL who wanted to make money, I would be all over CA laws so I could obtain a market share. To not to would be lunacy. They hate be ause they don't have the mental capacity to understand. Those that do understand are better off economically for it.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:36 AM
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Originally Posted by NorCal Mtn Flyer View Post
It is my opinion that most gun owners in the so called 'freestates' are unaware of how draconian the gun laws in CA are. Whenever I mention a few of the laws to various people I come across in some of the states I live in, they are apalled and shocked to hear it!

I recently was reading one of the CRPA threads, where the question was asked how to get more gunowners to join. In the free states, I would almost guess that membership is even a lower percentage (no stats to back up this opinion) than in CA. So even if these state wide orgs are supporting the CRPA, CGF, etc, the average owner is still in the dark.

If those free state orgs could raise the awareness of their in state owners, get them involved, then maybe those orgs could bring whatever influence they may have in support of the CRPA, CGF, etc.

Look at some of the NRA stats- it seems that even its membership is far less than a significant percentage of gun owners.

So I believe it comes down to educating those 'free state' gun owners that CA, IL, et al have become a poster children for over reaching gun control legislation, which is of equal importance, regardless of where that gun owner happens to reside.
I agree. The word is just not out there. How many people know how hard it is to buy a gun NJ? Or care? They have their toys and California can burn.

If you care about the 2A, you care what happens here. We will set the baseline for what state governments can get away with. The maximum standards of infrignment will be the law of the land in California, thats reality. Right now, there are many lawsuits that claim California goes to far in respect to the 2A. The resulting balance will be will set the bar.

People in other states should make sure that one or two runs of liberal majoritys wont turn their state into ours. I dont know how to get that message across, but relying on the 'good will' of politicians is not a long term stratagy.

If 2A jurisprudence is in its infancy, the formative years will be molded right here, or other anti 2A locations.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:43 AM
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Everyone HATES California, we are on our own.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:46 AM
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Everyone HATES California, we are on our own.
Then how come everyone moved here to make us the most populated state?
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:53 AM
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Then how come everyone moved here to make us the most populated state?
People moved here for the weather. The outside states still hate California.
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Old 07-02-2012, 8:54 AM
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CA represents approximately 12% of the House of Representatives (Congress), which makes it the most from any one state in the Union.

Therefore, CA can affect a lot of Federal laws.

Non-residents needs to be involved in and support the pro-gun movement in CA, to ensure anti-gun politicians do not get elected and mess with Federal gun laws.
this is very true. What the anti-CA people do not realize though, is there are other liberal states.

You tell them CA has 12% of the house and they will say 12 to 88.... hurrr durrr you californians need to get better math skills
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Old 07-02-2012, 9:00 AM
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People moved here for the weather. The outside states still hate California.
People move to CA for work and to make money. EVEN TODAY.
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Old 07-02-2012, 9:06 AM
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Transplant yourself to any city in the country and tell me how things would be different?
No need to transplant. I've already lived and worked in several, so I speak from experience. I hunted elk and deer less than 2 hours from Denver. I shot deer and quail just over an hour from downtown Chicago and half an hour from downtown Indianpolis. Biggest deer I ever shot was in a field near the Indianpolis airport. In fact, I bowhunted off the clarifier in a waste water treatement plant on the Indy's east side just before I moved out. Same for Nashville. California is only the paradise you point out in a few select areas, and those have no way for the majority of people to support themsleves. That, and the entire attitude in other states is completely different. I was talking hunting to a guy in Buffalo when I arrived here (Canada) this time that was from NYC and said the hunting culture in NY is alive and well, and lots of people from NYC go hunting and fishing. I just found out some of NY's best hunting and fishing is just a few hours drive away from NYC. Only the northern half of California is worth hunting or fishing, and for someone who doesn't live there, driving 10-12 hours to hunt or fish isn't always an option. Not everyone has your life and your circumstances.
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