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  #1  
Old 06-18-2012, 1:38 PM
glock1973 glock1973 is offline
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Default Need To Install Bullet Guide For Saiga AK47

Just recently bought Saiga AK47 IZ 132. It's a sporter configuration, and will keep it exactly the way it is. All I want to do is buy more 10 round mags. Will I trigger 922r compliance if a buy SGM Sure Fire 10 round mags (USA made)?

Or does it have to be the original Saiga mag??

Last edited by glock1973; 06-18-2012 at 10:09 PM.. Reason: Keeping it original configuration
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2012, 10:22 PM
Kinsel83 Kinsel83 is offline
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You will not trigger 922 compliance using the surefire 10 round mags. Only if you use high caps in Cali. (To the best of my knowledge). If I'm wrong, someone will correct me.

Hope that helps.
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  #3  
Old 06-24-2012, 7:51 AM
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kcstott kcstott is offline
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922r is federal and only applies to 'Non sporting" weapons
Your rifle was sold as a sporter. Using a high cap mag in a rifle that is a featureless rifle is not illegal, it does not violate Federal code 922(r) and is not an assault weapon in California either. So use high caps if you want and go have fun.
The only time 922(r) would apply

922 (r) It shall be unlawful for any person to
assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic
rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited
from importation under section 925(d)(3)
of this chapter as not being particularly
suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting
purposes
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  #4  
Old 06-24-2012, 8:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
922r is federal and only applies to 'Non sporting" weapons
Your rifle was sold as a sporter. Using a high cap mag in a rifle that is a featureless rifle is not illegal, it does not violate Federal code 922(r) and is not an assault weapon in California either. So use high caps if you want and go have fun.
The only time 922(r) would apply

922 (r) It shall be unlawful for any person to
assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic
rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited
from importation under section 925(d)(3)
of this chapter as not being particularly
suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting
purposes
Isn't the use of high cap mags in and of itself a trigger of 922(r)?

http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...ult-rifles.pdf

Quote:
Accordingly, we find that the ability to accept a detachable large capacity military
magazine is a critical factor in the sporting purposes test that must be given the same
weight as the other military configuration features identified in 1989.
Isn't that why Saigas cannot take regular AK magazines when they are imported for "sporting purposes?"
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  #5  
Old 06-24-2012, 9:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Baconator View Post
Isn't the use of high cap mags in and of itself a trigger of 922(r)?

http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...ult-rifles.pdf



Isn't that why Saigas cannot take regular AK magazines when they are imported for "sporting purposes?"
That study is not written into federal law. It is an interpretation of the law. The ATF is an enforcement agency and can not interpret law and issue orders outside of US Federal Code. Please don't construe The inability to interpret law as a inability to issue letters of clarification.

That study also bases it's finding on the ability to accept a high capacity magazine on the 1994 crime bill that has subsequently expired. Congress may have felt that at the time a HiCap mag was a military feature it is no longer illegal to own them.
Again I see no code that specifically states that a high cap mag can not be used in a imported rifle. Nor do i see a revision to the importation law which also covers assembly from parts a section that limits or restricts magazine capacity.

That said I'm not a lawyer I may have missed something somewhere and could by all means be completely incorrect
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Dick.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
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I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2012, 9:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
That study is not written into federal law. It is an interpretation of the law. The ATF is an enforcement agency and can not interpret law and issue orders outside of US Federal Code. Please don't construe The inability to interpret law as a inability to issue letters of clarification.

That study also bases it's finding on the ability to accept a high capacity magazine on the 1994 crime bill that has subsequently expired. Congress may have felt that at the time a HiCap mag was a military feature it is no longer illegal to own them.
Again I see no code that specifically states that a high cap mag can not be used in a imported rifle. Nor do i see a revision to the importation law which also covers assembly from parts a section that limits or restricts magazine capacity.

That said I'm not a lawyer I may have missed something somewhere and could by all means be completely incorrect
If that is the case then why are Saigas not able to accept standard AK mags? I thought that was part of the whole "sporting" issue.

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  #7  
Old 06-24-2012, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baconator View Post
If that is the case then why are Saigas not able to accept standard AK mags? I thought that was part of the whole "sporting" issue.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Saiga may be doing it out of the kindness of their heart for all we know.

I've never seen a code that says imported firearms must meet X criteria to be imported. The 922(r) is pretty vague so you may be right.

Now to be clear, case law is case law. And it never changes unless a judge finds otherwise. What I'm getting at is the statement that "in 1994 congress felt a High cap magazine was a military feature" (Paraphrasing) and that is where this study gets it's foundation from on the use of a HiCap in a sporter.
That finding may still hold true as even though the crime bill has since expired the possibility that the way congress felt in 1994 would still be considered a firm foundation to support the case today. meaning that if it ever went to court they may base the charge on that original feeling and find the person in violation of 922(r)

All i'm saying is I've yet to see anything thats says you can't

Again i'm completely capable of being wrong and I don't have a problem with admitting it.

I will say That I don't pretend to know everything on these subjects I have learned quite a bit on this site from you and many others.
I'm learning things here everyday.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Dick.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
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  #8  
Old 06-24-2012, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
Saiga may be doing it out of the kindness of their heart for all we know.

I've never seen a code that says imported firearms must meet X criteria to be imported. The 922(r) is pretty vague so you may be right.

Now to be clear, case law is case law. And it never changes unless a judge finds otherwise. What I'm getting at is the statement that "in 1994 congress felt a High cap magazine was a military feature" (Paraphrasing) and that is where this study gets it's foundation from on the use of a HiCap in a sporter.
That finding may still hold true as even though the crime bill has since expired the possibility that the way congress felt in 1994 would still be considered a firm foundation to support the case today. meaning that if it ever went to court they may base the charge on that original feeling and find the person in violation of 922(r)

All i'm saying is I've yet to see anything thats says you can't

Again i'm completely capable of being wrong and I don't have a problem with admitting it.

I will say That I don't pretend to know everything on these subjects I have learned quite a bit on this site from you and many others.
I'm learning things here everyday.
Yeah, I think the vaugeness of the 922(r) was intentional. Sporting purposes is a crappy guideline. Who knows what they might decide to nail someone on.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baconator View Post
Yeah, I think the vaugeness of the 922(r) was intentional. Sporting purposes is a crappy guideline. Who knows what they might decide to nail someone on.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Yep I have to agree 100%. The feds have been known to throw someone in jail and sort it out later. All under the "best of intentions" of course
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Dick.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
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  #10  
Old 06-26-2012, 7:01 AM
glock1973 glock1973 is offline
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Appreciate the info. Thank you.
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