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  #1  
Old 06-17-2012, 11:38 AM
tyjones tyjones is offline
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Smile Out of state handgun in to CA

This is my first post!! Great forum! WOW tons of knowledge!

I'm not sure how posting works but ill give it a try.

So I live in CA and have my CCW. I would like to obtain the new bersa 380 CC modle that of course is not on the CA list. I have a friend who lives in AZ with an AZ DL. Could he buy the gun transfer it to his wife ( a CA resident with CA DL) who then could sell it to me to carry as my CCW?? What would be the fees asociated with this type of thing?

OR

I have another friend in reno who said he would be willing to use my name on his utility bill(power) for a moth as long as I pay the bill. So then I could get my NV ID card from NV DMV and go buy the gun??

OR

I have yet another friend who is a current LEO, who knows very little about buying and selling guns, but said he would be happy to help me as long as it is within the law!
Any Ideas? are any of these possibilities? Thanks in advanced!
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2012, 1:19 PM
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BlackTydeTactical BlackTydeTactical is offline
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I am sure someone will come along and confirm. I am NOT a FFL.

But, your going to have to have the friend in AZ go to his FFL and send it to an FFL in your area. Then you can DROS it.

Welcome aboard!
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  #3  
Old 06-17-2012, 1:26 PM
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  #4  
Old 06-17-2012, 2:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyjones View Post
This is my first post!! Great forum! WOW tons of knowledge!

I'm not sure how posting works but ill give it a try.
There are many things which can be done, but not all of them are legal and many others are quite questionable.

Quote:
So I live in CA and have my CCW. I would like to obtain the new bersa 380 CC modle that of course is not on the CA list. I have a friend who lives in AZ with an AZ DL. Could he buy the gun transfer it to his wife ( a CA resident with CA DL) who then could sell it to me to carry as my CCW?? What would be the fees asociated with this type of thing?
The first problem with this is when your friend buys the firearm they have to answer they question on the 4473 as to whether they are the actual purchaser of the firearm. One could say that they are the actual purchaser since they are buying it with the intent to sell it to you, or LE could say that they are not the actually purchaser since it is really for you.

There could also be issues if his wife is not also an AZ resident since it would be transferring a firearm between residents of different states.

This could be done and it might be legal, but then again it might not be and if LE gets wind of it, such as posting it on a public forum, you might find out first hand whether it is or isn't legal.

Quote:
OR

I have another friend in reno who said he would be willing to use my name on his utility bill(power) for a moth as long as I pay the bill. So then I could get my NV ID card from NV DMV and go buy the gun??
This would be more of a problem since you would have to claim that you were a resident of NV, which you clearly are not. False information on a Federal document can be a serious charge.

Quote:
OR

I have yet another friend who is a current LEO, who knows very little about buying and selling guns, but said he would be happy to help me as long as it is within the law!
Any Ideas? are any of these possibilities? Thanks in advanced!
There are some officers which have been charged with crimes involving this type of thing. Only time will tell whether the charges will stick or not. There is also the issue of who the actual buyer is, based on who is doing the decision. While some might say that he is the actual buyer, who then becomes a seller and sells it to you, his department might take a dim view of it and fire him.

You might check into the Single Shot conversions, although there might be issues with that as well (manufacturing w/respect to FFL and requirements).

At best it is a gray area, at worst is it illegal and there is really no way to tell until your day in court.

What you describe, except for the second one, could be legal, but the intent gets in the way when you plan it in advance. A LEO could buy a firearm which is not on the certified list, decide that they don't like it and then sell it as a PPT. But when all of this is planned in advance, LE seems to have a different view, even if ALL of the transfers go through a FFL.
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Last edited by kemasa; 06-17-2012 at 2:15 PM..
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  #5  
Old 06-17-2012, 2:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackTydeTactical View Post
But, your going to have to have the friend in AZ go to his FFL and send it to an FFL in your area. Then you can DROS it.
It is not on the certified list, so either the firearm has to be exempt or the purchaser has to be exempt in order for the firearm to be transferred this way, neither of which appear to be the case.
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  #6  
Old 06-17-2012, 3:16 PM
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  #7  
Old 06-17-2012, 4:12 PM
tyjones tyjones is offline
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Thanks for all the answers! I definitely want to do it legally!
It was mentioned that my AZ friend could do a PPT to me? Is this possible if the gun is not on the 'list'?
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  #8  
Old 06-17-2012, 4:22 PM
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Seems like you are talking various versions of strawman. All 3 being friends buying so you could get what you want. I could be wrong, but it's a lot easier to work within the system than out. And good lord you don't want to make a mistake....

If you are in So Cal - contact DAS (Solana Beach) about an SSE. Other than that, a lot of your ideas sound flakey and would appear that way to most anybody. (I'm not FFL, LEO or anything, just a guy).

But my rule is to try to find a gun on the list.

OR if off list - IN THE AREA FOR A PPT. Advertize here for a WTB - PPT - you might be stunned that someone in your area has just the gun you want. It would be used, but most guns have a lot lower round count than you might think...

Or if you have parents out of state for interfamilial transfer.


I dunno.

.
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2012, 5:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyjones View Post
This is my first post!! Great forum! WOW tons of knowledge!

I'm not sure how posting works but ill give it a try.

So I live in CA and have my CCW. I would like to obtain the new bersa 380 CC modle that of course is not on the CA list. I have a friend who lives in AZ with an AZ DL. Could he buy the gun transfer it to his wife ( a CA resident with CA DL) who then could sell it to me to carry as my CCW?? What would be the fees asociated with this type of thing?

OR

I have another friend in reno who said he would be willing to use my name on his utility bill(power) for a moth as long as I pay the bill. So then I could get my NV ID card from NV DMV and go buy the gun??

OR

I have yet another friend who is a current LEO, who knows very little about buying and selling guns, but said he would be happy to help me as long as it is within the law!
Any Ideas? are any of these possibilities? Thanks in advanced!
I would avoid options two and three in favor of option one. This is a convoluted but legal option provided you are not an active participant in the initial Arizona transaction. There is no California DOJ DROS requirement for a transfer between spouses and that spouse can subsequently transfer to any California resident legally permitted to own the firearm. However, since ATF does not recognize the CA marital exemption for this transfer and since the husband and wife (transferor and transferee) are residents of different states, the transfer will require the intervention of a California FFL dealer. My suggestion is that you first find an FFL dealer that understands the regulations involved (a surprising percentage do not) and will handle the transfer for you for the fees agreed upon.
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:24 PM
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welcome.
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  #11  
Old 06-17-2012, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
It is not on the certified list, so either the firearm has to be exempt or the purchaser has to be exempt in order for the firearm to be transferred this way, neither of which appear to be the case.
Thanks for clarifying.
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  #12  
Old 06-18-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyjones View Post
Thanks for all the answers! I definitely want to do it legally!
It was mentioned that my AZ friend could do a PPT to me? Is this possible if the gun is not on the 'list'?
The only way that it could be a PPT is if both people are CA residents and both have a CA ID/DL. A PPT is exempt with regards to the list.
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  #13  
Old 06-18-2012, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruising7388 View Post
...
However, since ATF does not recognize the CA marital exemption for this transfer and since the husband and wife (transferor and transferee) are residents of different states, the transfer will require the intervention of a California FFL dealer. My suggestion is that you first find an FFL dealer that understands the regulations involved (a surprising percentage do not) and will handle the transfer for you for the fees agreed upon.
The wife could also be a resident of AZ, in which case she would only need to fill out the CA DOJ form when she brought it back to CA.

While the transfer can be done this way, it still does not make it legal and there could be issues with it. Personally, I think it should be legal, but some of the views I have seen would consider everytime someone fills out a 4473 prior to the final person to be making a false statement since they are not the actual buyer and it is not a gift.

Personally, as a FFL I would want no part in this transaction due to the questions with respect to the law. Going other routes, such as a SSE, is far more clear as far as the law goes, although the CA DOJ does not seem to like this at all.
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  #14  
Old 06-19-2012, 8:24 AM
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  #15  
Old 06-19-2012, 6:51 PM
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Welcome aboard.
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  #16  
Old 06-19-2012, 7:04 PM
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Welcome!
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  #17  
Old 06-19-2012, 8:08 PM
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Welcome
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  #18  
Old 06-20-2012, 6:11 AM
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Welcome. Glad you have the CCW! Just remember CA is the "land of the laws". Good Luck.
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  #19  
Old 06-20-2012, 6:16 AM
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Sounds like you should find an 07FFL to convert it and make it quailfy for a single shot exemption. If you are near Ventura County, I would suggest contacting EBR Works.
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Old 06-20-2012, 6:51 AM
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Old 06-20-2012, 8:17 AM
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