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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 06-12-2012, 7:09 PM
dsmoot dsmoot is offline
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Default Study: Guns dont kill people, 'Stand Your Ground' laws do

Not sure if this is a dupe, but just saw this article with a bunch of crazy numbers and claims about gun deaths. When will these people learn to not start with a conclusion and then try to make the numbers fit!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/stud...round-laws-do/
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Old 06-12-2012, 8:32 PM
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Need to look at the actual working paper by Prof. Hoekstra, http://econweb.tamu.edu/mhoekstra/castle_doctrine.pdf And note it IS a 'working paper', not a complete or peer-reviewed study.

He and his grad student are economists, and they're trying to work out cost-benefit of the laws.
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Old 06-12-2012, 9:06 PM
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Default Hmmm

Isn't it ironic that cities like Oakland, L.A., Wash D.C., and most recently Chicago, have some of the highest gun death rates in the nation? (Chicago averages 2 per day??). They also have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. It just proves that these laws do nothing to prevent criminals from doing business as usual and the citizens are left scrambling for cover. When are these idiots finally going to see the light? Sooooooo willing to trade 1 Trayvon for hundreds of other innocent victims, and this case hasen't even seen any court time yet. Makes me wonder. . . . .
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Old 06-12-2012, 9:12 PM
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KI19111911ED?
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Old 06-13-2012, 1:23 AM
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I'm really curious how they normalized out the economic downturn. Considering most of these laws were passed shortly before the downturn, you'd *expect* homicides to increase during one of the worst economic downturns in US history.
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Old 06-13-2012, 1:30 AM
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Quote:
Hoekstra and his co-author, grad student Chen Cheng, looked at 23 states where castle doctrine laws exist and found slight evidence that castle doctrine increases justifiable homicides committed by civilians by anywhere from 17 to 50 percent. That sounds like a lot. But the reality is that justifiable homicide is narrowly defined and exceedingly rare: according to the FBI, a killing can only be classified that way when someone kills another person who’s committing a felony. Fewer than 200 deaths are classified that way each year.
Taking this at face value, how likely is that the number of justifiable homicides increased because fewer victims were victimized the second time when they got convicted of murder for defending themselves from an attack, now that they had an affirmative defense?

The question is, did the overall number of homicides go up, down, or stayed the same? According to the FBI, it keeps going down. So, we're likely looking at very creative statistics, as usual.
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Last edited by nick; 06-13-2012 at 1:32 AM..
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Old 06-13-2012, 8:54 AM
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I actually read through most of the Tampa Bay article on the "Stand your ground" Law. No lie, definitely a lot of people are abusing the nature of the law and it does bring out some gray area.
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Old 06-13-2012, 9:21 AM
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The attacks on stand your ground laws are just the latest avenue of attack by the antis. They see it as a way to drive a wedge between us and get weak-minded and weak-kneed gun owners to surrender their right to self defense and as a good place to start momentum rolling in the direction of eliminating carry and later even the simple possession of arms. Antis have successfully done this to us before with the Clinton ban when they got weak-minded and weak kneed hunters (AKA "Fudds") to agree to join them in supporting bans on scary looking rifles. They want us to forget about the innocent gun owners that were persecuted by anti-gun prosecutors out to send a message of use a gun in self defense and go to jail and you can bet that castle doctrines laws and LTC laws will be next.
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john.t.singh View Post
I actually read through most of the Tampa Bay article on the "Stand your ground" Law. No lie, definitely a lot of people are abusing the nature of the law and it does bring out some gray area.
That's why we have murder statutes. The way I see it, the Murder statutes are all the gun control laws we need.
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john.t.singh View Post
I actually read through most of the Tampa Bay article on the "Stand your ground" Law. No lie, definitely a lot of people are abusing the nature of the law and it does bring out some gray area.
Link?

I'd like to know exactly how citizens are abusing a law that is an after-the-fact affirmative defense.

Until then, I call BS.
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