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  #1  
Old 06-08-2012, 6:34 AM
AnthonySD AnthonySD is offline
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Default Scope problems. Gunsite Scout Scope Rings Bad?

Alright folks here's my dilemma. I recently purchased a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle which probably was not worth the money seeing as its no longer being used for its intended purpose. (Live and learn) Rear sight and rail removed to install a Leopold VXII 3x9x40 using the supplied scope rings. The scope was professionally installed and bore-sighted at a local gunsmith. After the fact, the gunsmith told me that I can only go 4 more clicks left on the scope because of the rings I am using. I assumed Ruger's supplied rings would be decent quality, but according to him "with these type of rings" if they are a little off it makes a huge difference. An experienced friend tells me he thinks somethings not right. Perhaps a bad install or maybe a cheap bore-sight. Either way 4 clicks is almost zero room for adjustment IMO. I have yet to shoot it and will be breaking it in out to 700 yards on steel targets tomorrow. After tomorrow I imagine I will be forced to buy different rings and re-install the scope because I cant imagine I'll be on target. Any advice, thoughts or suggestions? Am I missing something or does it all seem legit? Anyone buy one of these rifles?
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  #2  
Old 06-08-2012, 6:49 AM
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impossible to tell if anything is wrong by looking at the picture, there is no visible detail just shadow.
Why take the rail off for the VXII?
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Old 06-08-2012, 7:13 AM
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The picture wasn't really meant to show anything visibly wrong. Based on description alone, only 4 clicks remaining on the scope doesn't seem right. The rail had to be removed because the bell on the scope is too big to fit with it. Scope rings aren't tall enough.
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Old 06-08-2012, 7:16 AM
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If you really think its the rings, give Ruger a call. They will probably replace them for free.

BTW, you are want to go 700 yards with a 308 with a 16.5 inch barrel?
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  #5  
Old 06-08-2012, 7:30 AM
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Found what the manual says on the rings. Perhaps something was installed backwards. And yes, the rifle and definitely the shooter is fully capable of 700 yards. Obviously the current scope issue will limit me now but the particular range I use goes out to 700.

Each Ruger scope ring is a mated assembly of a top and a base. Do not mix the parts of the
two ring assemblies as they are not interchangeable. On the underside of each
mounting ring assembly there is an integral lug, located off center with respect
to the front and back sides of the mount. The lug is nearer to the front surface.
By reference to the lug, the mounting ring can be correctly assembled with the
front of the ring toward the muzzle of the rifle.
1. Disassemble one ring and reassemble over the scope body between the turret
and the eyepiece. Remember - the lug on the base should be on the front side
of the scope.
2. Install the four top screws. Do not tighten.
3. Disassemble the other ring and install it on the forward section of the scope
tube with the lug forwardly also. Install the four top screws. Again, do not
tighten.
4. Assemble the rings to the receiver with the lugs engaging the recesses in the
top surface of the receiver. Tighten the clamp nuts so that the rings are locked
to the semicircular cuts on the sides of the receiver.
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Old 06-08-2012, 7:50 AM
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Yep your smith got some parts mixed up and he didn't seem to think anything was wrong with his install after clicking in 40 plus clicks which is amazing.

Where are you located?
So here's the deal take your scope off reinstall the rings correctly center the adjustment on your scope and reinstall then bore sight it. Bet it fixes the issue.
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Old 06-08-2012, 7:57 AM
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going 4 more clicks left makes no sense at all, as you are pointing out.
Since left/right equals windage I wonder if the rings are mounted correctly.
I would take it apart and redo it and check the ring placement and center.
Or get a level put the rifle on its side with the bolt out and check the level.
If you can only go 4 more clicks left your scope maybe canted. Another thing to check is the front rings, are they tightened down so much that they are causing a cant.
lastly setup the rifle on a rest and take a slow detailed look at your reticles, windage could be broken.
Oh and check out this guys blog on the gunsite: http://www.weapon-blog.com/?p=1807
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Old 06-08-2012, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonySD View Post
And yes, the rifle and definitely the shooter is fully capable of 700 yards.
Have fun!

Gun / Ammunition : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 150, Nosler BalTip 30150
Bullet weight : 150 grains or 9.72 Grams
Muzzle velocity : 2664 fps
Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1):
C1=0.435@V>0 fps;

@ 700 yards-
speed ~ 1416 fps
energy ~ 668 fp
MOA ~ 19.8 up from 200 yard zero
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Old 06-08-2012, 8:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennys dad View Post
going 4 more clicks left makes no sense at all, as you are pointing out.
Since left/right equals windage I wonder if the rings are mounted correctly.
I would take it apart and redo it and check the ring placement and center.
Or get a level put the rifle on its side with the bolt out and check the level.
If you can only go 4 more clicks left your scope maybe canted. Another thing to check is the front rings, are they tightened down so much that they are causing a cant.
lastly setup the rifle on a rest and take a slow detailed look at your reticles, windage could be broken.
Oh and check out this guys blog on the gunsite: http://www.weapon-blog.com/?p=1807
Umm a level??? On a firearm to check if something is out of alignment???
What kind of level as a carpenters level will show perfect alignment with a 1/16" shim under one side. .001" of misalignment over four inches is equal to 1 MOA. So with a level he could be off over 60 MOA and the level would still read fine. They are not sensitive enough.

I this case since the glass is quality I would mechanically center the scope, re mount and check alignment with the scope to bore.

A four inch shorter barrel is nothing to worry about out to 700 yards. He might loose 100 FPS at most. but the potential for the rifle to be more accurate is high as the shorter the barrel the more stiff it is and less influence on your shots due to vibration.
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:28 PM
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http://www.midwayusa.com/product/816...kit-1-and-30mm
levels are part of the kit
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Last edited by pennys dad; 06-08-2012 at 12:42 PM..
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Old 06-08-2012, 1:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bend View Post
BTW, you are want to go 700 yards with a 308 with a 16.5 inch barrel?
Savage Scout for the win!
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Old 06-09-2012, 1:46 PM
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Thanks for all the replies. Shot it today. The gunsmith must have been drunk because I went 15 left and 15 up. I am now dead center at 100 yards. Maybe his bore sighting process is completely off, or he has no clue what he is talking about. I thought I'd leave the range frustrated, but I hearing steel each and every time is rewarding.
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Old 06-10-2012, 9:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennys dad View Post
Just because midway sell it doesn't mean it's worth a damn.

For one there is no mention in the kit how accurate the level is. I want a number when I buy a level. I want to see either X number of MOA over a foot or a decimal inches of rise over run.

Two they tell you to put the second level on the scope cap. Since when is that a good reference surface to use??

What if you are working on a rifle that is made for long range shooting and has 20 MOA built into the base? how are you going to level that? it will always read wrong.


This is what should be done. and there are a few ways to get there but this is what I do when the bases or rings are suspect.

remove the rings leave bases in place and place a precision ground straight edge across the bases. Look for day light and see if they are mounted correctly level and square.

Once that the bases have been eliminated as a problem install the rings with a set of scope centering tools installed.this will show you if the bases and rings line up properly. You already checked the bases so if you are seeing any indication that the rings are out of level it is the rings causing the misalignment.

Now that is the way you can do it with out having precision tools.
My normal way of checking bases and rings is to clamp the action in the mill vise and run indicators over everything. this way you can see if the bases are on the same axis plane and if they are level or 20 MOA out of level what ever the case may be. You can also see if they are parallel to the bore axis.

It makes a huge difference and you have to be able to trust your tools
Just slapping on any ol level with no specs on what it reads is like using a yard stick with no inches on it. It will get you close but where exactly is it in space you don't know for sure
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Dick.

Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
PSL BARRELS MACHINED TO ORDER PM FOR QUOTE
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
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