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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 06-03-2012, 6:57 PM
Cpt Cautious Cpt Cautious is offline
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Default SKS and 922r

I have been doing a lot of research on adding a thumbhole stock to a sks. A friend of mine purchased a very beat up sks and is adding this stock
http://www.amazon.com/ATI-SKS-Fiberf.../dp/B000MGWARS

it is already in the mail. Lets please avoid the bubba vs non bubba debate.

I have already done a bunch of research and I understand 922r. The sks in question is a yugo. so here comes the questions...

First off, I found an old post that said this....

05-24-2007, BATFE Firearms Technology Branch holds the position that installing a thumbhole stock or monte carlo stock onto a SKS does not require Fed 922r parts compliance. Because those types of stocks are of "sporting purpose".

Is this still valid? because if so then there is no need to worry about 922r, correct? (in this case anyways with only the stock being changed

If not then here is what I need help with...

Where can I find a USA made non detachable magazine?
Ive checked tapco and sksman and neither of them have the non-detachable that I must have in order to keep my weapon a non-assault rifle.

Another option, is there a bullet button for the sks?
if a detachable magazine is put on can stripper clips still be used?

Last edited by Cpt Cautious; 06-03-2012 at 7:12 PM..
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  #2  
Old 06-03-2012, 7:07 PM
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The green type is really annoying to read.
Here's your mag. Out of stock, but they do exist.
But given that 922r is not an issue, why are you getting rid of the original mag?
There is no BB for the SKS.
If you want to satsfy 922r anyways, you can just get US-made trigger group parts here.
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Old 06-03-2012, 7:13 PM
Cpt Cautious Cpt Cautious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Clip View Post
But given that 922r is not an issue, why are you getting rid of the original mag?
Why is 922r not an issue?
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Old 06-03-2012, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Cpt Cautious View Post
Why is 922r not an issue?
You posted why in your first post. 922r is federal, the feds don't care as long as you use a "sporting" stock as a replacement. Your buddy is using a thumbhole stock, no 922r.
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  #5  
Old 06-03-2012, 9:15 PM
Cpt Cautious Cpt Cautious is offline
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Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
You posted why in your first post. 922r is federal, the feds don't care as long as you use a "sporting" stock as a replacement. Your buddy is using a thumbhole stock, no 922r.
ok so that is still in effect then. just want to ask this one more time to make sure no crimes are committed

the stock I linked is considered sporting by the federal government even though it would be classified as a "evil feature" by the Californian government

so with only that stock we are good to go then?
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  #6  
Old 06-03-2012, 9:51 PM
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922R doesn't apply to most SKS's, because they don't use a detachable large capacity military magazine. Add a detachable mag to any non Chinese 16" paratrooper SKS imported after 11/30/1990 & 922R will apply. SKS's imported before 11/30/1990 are exempt from 922R, as long as you are the original owner. Of course in CA you can't have a detachable mag on a SKS that is not a RAW.

Unsoeld/922R was passed to Federally enforce the HW Bush import ban of unsporting military style semi-auto rifles in starting on 3/15/1989 and becoming permanent on 7/08/1989.

3/15/1989:

The import ban represents a softening in the stand of President Bush, who less than a month ago said he was ''not about to'' impose a ban on semiautomatic weapons, despite calls for such action.

But White House officials said Mr. Bush, a life member of the National Rifle Association and an opponent of gun control, shifted his position after lobbying by Mr. Bennett, by drug officials and by his wife, Barbara, who had indicated she favored a ban.

A White House official told of Mr. Bush's private meeting last Thursday in New York with undercover officers of the Drug Enforcement Administration. ''They told him that, yes, the weapons are falling into the wrong hands,'' the official said. ''They said that without compromising the needs of sportsmen, a sensible solution needed to be found.''

The White House termed today's decision a ''review'' of importation policy that could be altered later.

The National Rifle Association is likely to oppose a permanent import restriction, but it said today that it welcomed a review of whether semiautomatics had real sporting uses. Wants a 'Cool-Headed Look'

Wayne LaPierre, director of the association's lobbying division, said in a statement that the move would put a stop to ''media hysteria'' and ''should provide an atmosphere for a reasoned and sensible debate'' on the legitimacy of semiautomatic weapons.

''The time is long overdue for a cool-headed look at the facts on this issue,'' he said.


7/08/1989:

Today's decision is a significant step in the evolution of the Administration's gun control policies. It puts President Bush clearly at odds with the National Rifle Association and will almost certainly increase pressures on him to approve restrictions or an outright ban on domestic versions of semiautomatic assault weapons.

''The President was informed of the findings and decisions, and fully supports them,'' Alixe Glen, a White House spokeswoman, said of the ban announced today.

Senator Howard M. Metzenbaum of Ohio and Representative Pete Stark of California, both Democrats and leading Congressional advocates of stricter gun control, criticized the President for not going far enough and pledged to press for tighter restrictions on domestically produced assault weapons. Bills Pending in Congress

Several such bills are pending in Congress, and Mr. Stark said that with his action today Mr. Bush had given ''tacit approval'' to the idea of restricting all assault-style weapons. ''If one of these bills goes through, the President certainly will have no logical reason to justify a veto,'' Mr. Stark added.

Senator Metzenbaum said he would ask the Senate Judiciary Committee to approve legislation barring domestically manufactured assault weapons when it meets next Thursday.
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Old 06-03-2012, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Cpt Cautious View Post
ok so that is still in effect then. just want to ask this one more time to make sure no crimes are committed

the stock I linked is considered sporting by the federal government even though it would be classified as a "evil feature" by the Californian government

so with only that stock we are good to go then?
The Feds consider a thumbhole stock to be sporting. That has nothing to do with CA opressive AW restrictions. CA laws everything hinges on the mag.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarenceBoddicker View Post
922R doesn't apply to most SKS's, because they don't use a detachable large capacity military magazine. Add a detachable mag to any non Chinese 16" paratrooper SKS imported after 11/30/1990 & 922R will apply. SKS's imported before 11/30/1990 are exempt from 922R, as long as you are the original owner. Of course in CA you can't have a detachable mag on a SKS that is not a RAW.
Kinda true, but not really. The Zastava (Yugo) 59/66 isn't named "SKS" and can have a detachable magazine per state law.
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Old 06-04-2012, 3:31 AM
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Please delete I rewrote it below.
Thanks

Last edited by PEZHEAD265; 06-04-2012 at 4:10 AM..
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Old 06-04-2012, 4:08 AM
PEZHEAD265 PEZHEAD265 is offline
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[QUOTE=ClarenceBoddicker;8695417]922R doesn't apply to most SKS's, because they don't use a detachable large capacity military magazine. Add a detachable mag to any non Chinese 16" paratrooper SKS imported after 11/30/1990 & 922R will apply. SKS's imported before 11/30/1990 are exempt from 922R, as long as you are the original owner. Of course in CA you can't have a detachable mag on a SKS that is not a RAW.

Why is the Chinese paratrooper exempt?
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Old 06-04-2012, 9:57 AM
J.D.Allen J.D.Allen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post



Kinda true, but not really. The Zastava (Yugo) 59/66 isn't named "SKS" and can have a detachable magazine per state law.
Really? Is there anything you know of in print that can back this up? Wouldn't this be true of all the non Russian copies?
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  #11  
Old 06-04-2012, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by J.D.Allen View Post
Really? Is there anything you know of in print that can back this up? Wouldn't this be true of all the non Russian copies?
Yes, it's called the Robert-Roos appendix A of named Assualt Weapons.
Look on the semi auto rifle flowchart.

If your SKS type or Simonov carbine doesn't say "SKS" anywhere on it then it is considered "off list" just like any other OLL. Therefore as long as there are no SB23 features other than a detachable magazine your GTG.
Now if you have a Chinese SKS with a detachable mag, that has been banned specficlly. My Zastava 59/66 carbines don't have SKS anywhere on them, and would be 100% compliant with CA AW laws even if I had them set up for AK mags.
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Last edited by SJgunguy24; 06-04-2012 at 12:40 PM..
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Old 06-04-2012, 3:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarenceBoddicker View Post
922R doesn't apply to most SKS's, because they don't use a detachable large capacity military magazine. Add a detachable mag to any non Chinese 16" paratrooper SKS imported after 11/30/1990 & 922R will apply. SKS's imported before 11/30/1990 are exempt from 922R, as long as you are the original owner. Of course in CA you can't have a detachable mag on a SKS that is not a RAW.
Why is the Chinese paratrooper exempt?

No, it's the exact opposite, the Chinese paratrooper is subject to 922R because it uses detachable AK mags, not the fixed 10rd SKS mags. All SKS's that have fixed 10 rd mags are exempt from 922R. You can do anything to them, except convert to full auto, shorten the barrel below 16" or make the overall length less than 26". In CA you have to keep it longer than 30" IIRC. If you convert a post 11/30/1990 imported SKS to use detachable mags, then you have to comply to 922R. The main point with 922R is the ability of a semi auto rifle to accept large capacity military magazines. You can still import semi-auto rifles with evil assault features like bayonets, as long as the magazine is fixed.

Another thing with the SKS paratrooper model is that there were 2 versions imported before the Clinton 1993 Chinese ban. The version that was imported before the 1989 Bush ban had a bayonet. The version imported after 1989 was just like all the other neutered semi-autos & had the bayonet removed.

I think there is some wrong info about the CA SKS detachable magazine ban. The CA Legislautre meant to ban the preban paratrooper SKS with the bayonet, not the post ban featureless one. Back then there was also a flood of cheap junk detachable mags to replace the SKS fixed one. I also think guys are playing with fire by converting any SKS type rifle to use a detachable mag in CA. I don't think any jury will be swayed by the weak argument that just because it is not marked SKS that it's not an SKS.

IIRC, back in the late 1980's there was 4 different new SKS's being imported (before the flood of guns from the ex USSR republics swept in), all from China. There was the surplus old milled receiver model that used a threaded in barrel, the later sheetmetal receiver model with a pressed in barrel, the 16" paratrooper model (pre & post ban) that used AK mags & the surplus chrome plated drill SKS. I know for a fact that some of the old surplus ones with the milled receivers did not have any model marking on them at all. My old milled one just had a SN & the factory code/symbol. It had a very light import mark on the barrel & was hand stamped (after the gun was blued) on the receiver something like: 6 corp made in China by Norinco

The instruction booklet that came with my SKS was comical, as most Chinese gun one were at the time. It was full of spelling, grammatical & punctuation errors. There would be capitol letters in the middle of words, etc. They used some info from their military manuals inside like how to use your sporting SKS to shoot down aircraft & mass volley fire for long distance targets.
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Old 06-05-2012, 4:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarenceBoddicker View Post
Why is the Chinese paratrooper exempt?

No, it's the exact opposite, the Chinese paratrooper is subject to 922R because it uses detachable AK mags, not the fixed 10rd SKS mags. All SKS's that have fixed 10 rd mags are exempt from 922R. You can do anything to them, except convert to full auto, shorten the barrel below 16" or make the overall length less than 26". In CA you have to keep it longer than 30" IIRC. If you convert a post 11/30/1990 imported SKS to use detachable mags, then you have to comply to 922R. The main point with 922R is the ability of a semi auto rifle to accept large capacity military magazines. You can still import semi-auto rifles with evil assault features like bayonets, as long as the magazine is fixed.

Another thing with the SKS paratrooper model is that there were 2 versions imported before the Clinton 1993 Chinese ban. The version that was imported before the 1989 Bush ban had a bayonet. The version imported after 1989 was just like all the other neutered semi-autos & had the bayonet removed.

I think there is some wrong info about the CA SKS detachable magazine ban. The CA Legislautre meant to ban the preban paratrooper SKS with the bayonet, not the post ban featureless one. Back then there was also a flood of cheap junk detachable mags to replace the SKS fixed one. I also think guys are playing with fire by converting any SKS type rifle to use a detachable mag in CA. I don't think any jury will be swayed by the weak argument that just because it is not marked SKS that it's not an SKS.

IIRC, back in the late 1980's there was 4 different new SKS's being imported (before the flood of guns from the ex USSR republics swept in), all from China. There was the surplus old milled receiver model that used a threaded in barrel, the later sheetmetal receiver model with a pressed in barrel, the 16" paratrooper model (pre & post ban) that used AK mags & the surplus chrome plated drill SKS. I know for a fact that some of the old surplus ones with the milled receivers did not have any model marking on them at all. My old milled one just had a SN & the factory code/symbol. It had a very light import mark on the barrel & was hand stamped (after the gun was blued) on the receiver something like: 6 corp made in China by Norinco

The instruction booklet that came with my SKS was comical, as most Chinese gun one were at the time. It was full of spelling, grammatical & punctuation errors. There would be capitol letters in the middle of words, etc. They used some info from their military manuals inside like how to use your sporting SKS to shoot down aircraft & mass volley fire for long distance targets.
This is where you are confused and got me confused.The paratrooper SKS is a 16 inch barreled fixed mag rifle that was billed with many names [CA legal].The ones with detachable AK mags are D,M,MC-5D and Sporter.The D being preban as they still have the bayo.

Last edited by PEZHEAD265; 06-05-2012 at 4:30 AM..
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