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  #1  
Old 05-20-2012, 8:01 PM
dooodstevenn dooodstevenn is offline
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Default shotgun for a poor man.

Hey guys and gals, i've been looking into some shotguns but im on a very strict budget and indecisive, and im hoping this will help. anyways, this is what im looking at:

benelli nova - i really like this shotgun, but its a little pricey, can i justifiy the price of this over, say a mossberg 500? also like being able to chamber a 3.5 in shell

mossberg 500 - i like this gun, cheap, proven, but does not appeal to me aesthetically, but yet again it is a shotgun it just needs to go bang all the time.

mossberg 590- i dont know too much about this, but this seems to be a hefty version of the 500, with plastic parts being replaced with some kind of metal

remmington 780 - same as mossberg 500, but i dont really like fighting the elevator to get a round in the magazine tube, before these were the work horses (from what ive read) but now i hear alot of people say remmington has let themselves go when it comes to QC.

remmington 887- for the price i thought this was a good inbetween of a plain jane and a nova, but from what ive read these 887 have alot of problems. so this is probably a no go.


what i want: nice aesthetics (but not a must, especially if it will burn a hole in my wallet)

-reliability

-ability to mount a scope

-availability of upgrades and add on's as i please

-good fit and finnish


from what i'm seeing from the strict budget i have the 780, 590 or 500 are the way to go, but the 500 i hear has some trouble when it comes to fit, and remmington has been going down the hole. and there are so many other pros and cons between the two like saftey placement, aluminum vs steel recievers, saftey placement, etc.

i will be using this for hunting, and would like to make it as versatile as possible hence the wanting of a scope mount, as well as interchangeable chokes, from what ive seen at big 5 the mossberg 500 combo has a fixed choke.

the max i'd like to spend is 400 after tax and fees, but if there is a good deal out there, im willing to stay home and eat top ramen for a week or two

Last edited by dooodstevenn; 05-21-2012 at 2:39 AM..
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2012, 8:12 PM
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870, 500 or 590. Cant go wrong with any one of the three. Played with the 590 and 870 in the Corps. No issue with either; I like the 590.

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  #3  
Old 05-20-2012, 8:17 PM
RomPirate RomPirate is offline
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How strict is your budget?

What are you looking for in a shotgun?

Why do you need a 3.5" in shell?
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  #4  
Old 05-20-2012, 8:27 PM
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Got to second RomPirate's question; "what's the need for the magnum round"? For home defense, I'd be looking at lower power 00 buck like the Federal Law enforcement ammo.

870 or the 500. Both are good shotguns. Honestly, any in your list are good choices. You need to shoulder a few and find which one speaks to you. Reliability in a pump action comes more from training then from engineering when you are talking about the class of shotguns you listed.
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  #5  
Old 05-20-2012, 8:32 PM
dooodstevenn dooodstevenn is offline
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my budget is 400 max after tax and fee for background check, i don't really need a 3.5 shell, but its nice to have. i guess i can cut that out, especially on the budget.

as for reliability, i agree all are good but i really don't think the 887 is unreliable because of handling and training, but rather because of engineering. that said, im not too sure about the new batches of 887's theyre sending out
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  #6  
Old 05-20-2012, 8:39 PM
dooodstevenn dooodstevenn is offline
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also the 590 has a 20in barrel with a 8+1 capacity, a heat shield, and bayonet mount, versus the 500 combo with a 5+1 nothing else but has a 28in vent/ribbed barrel (i think sights are different too?) for field and hunting would i need a higher capacity mag with a shorter barrel and heat shield?

and are the 590 or 500 security/field barrels able to switch out chokes? i keep hearing different things from people, some people say its a fixed choke, but some websites say they can use mossberg acu-chokes

Last edited by dooodstevenn; 05-20-2012 at 8:41 PM..
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  #7  
Old 05-20-2012, 9:10 PM
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Another alternative, for strick budget, to consider would be the Maverick 88 (which is a less expensive Mexican-made version similar to the Mossberg 500.)

Recently a friend of mine bought a Maverick 88 from a local gun store for less than $200 including taxes and fees. She is good at bargaining, and that helped too.

Regards,
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  #8  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:56 PM
dooodstevenn dooodstevenn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axhoaxho View Post
Another alternative, for strick budget, to consider would be the Maverick 88 (which is a less expensive Mexican-made version similar to the Mossberg 500.)

Recently a friend of mine bought a Maverick 88 from a local gun store for less than $200 including taxes and fees. She is good at bargaining, and that helped too.

Regards,
thanks for the advice, but i prefer to stay with name brands, just in case anything were to happen to it, i would have easy access to replacements and what not
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  #9  
Old 05-21-2012, 12:15 AM
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maverick 88 + plenty of ammo and some extra money left over for upgrades that u "might" need/want

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  #10  
Old 05-21-2012, 12:26 AM
DavidR310 DavidR310 is offline
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What are your plans? Hunting, skeet, self defense?
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2012, 12:32 AM
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Btw, maverick is made/assembled by mossberg in the U.S., not in mexico. It however uses parts from mexico to help with costs. Lastly, some parts are interchangeable with the mossberg such as the barrels/chokes.

Maverick to Mossberg like
Natty light to Budweiser

Last edited by DavidR310; 05-21-2012 at 12:34 AM..
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  #12  
Old 05-21-2012, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooodstevenn View Post
thanks for the advice, but i prefer to stay with name brands, just in case anything were to happen to it, i would have easy access to replacements and what not
For a budget shotgun, the first thing that came to mind was the mav 88. Its the same as the 500 but with a different trigger group. Its basically still a mossy 500, all major parts the same.
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  #13  
Old 05-21-2012, 12:57 AM
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Remember there is also a difference between the 590 and 590a1. The 590 retains most of the polymer pieces where as the 590a1 only has 2 polymer pieces (stock and forearm). Other than that the a1 is all steel and heavy duty aluminum. With that being said I own a benelli m3 convertable, a remington 870, a mossy 500 and 590a1 and they all have served me well and done the job.
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  #14  
Old 05-21-2012, 1:42 AM
dooodstevenn dooodstevenn is offline
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my main use for this shot gun would be to hunt, the mossberg 500 they have at big 5 looks perfect, but from what i remember seeing, that 28in vent/ribbed barrel is a fixed choke barrel.
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  #15  
Old 05-21-2012, 2:02 AM
dooodstevenn dooodstevenn is offline
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at this point, making a decision is way to difficult for me, as i already am very indecisive. so here is a list of what i NEED not WANT and im hoping you guys can give me a straight answer.

-durability
-reliability
-interchangeable chokes
-ability to mount a scope
-cheap but still durable and reliable
-easy access to parts/upgrades
-some what idiot proof field stripping/cleaning
-little to no work before shooting out of box

let me explain that last one, i was about to pull the trigger (poor pun completely intended ) on a 870, but again the hit or miss of remington QC as stopped me. I was reading up on some problems the newer produced 870 express was having, and people were reporting stiff actions, and poor ejections. In response to these problems, some have said that remington has been building the 870 express today the same way they did 20 years ago when everyone swore by them, but now they are not polishing the internals enough, so there needs to be a break in time. they also suggested you clean out the entire gun with some remoil, and that you would possibly need to take some 0000steel wool and some oil and polish the inside of the chamber? (dont really remember what, but they said it was obviously rough feeling). with this said I would not like to deal with that as i am a bit paranoid about not being able to return my stuff and lose my hard earned money, but if i know for sure some steel wool and oil is all it takes to get a 870 working like it did out of the box 20 years ago, i have no problem with that. but if there is no definite solution to a definite problem, i would rather have out of the box durability and reliability
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  #16  
Old 05-21-2012, 9:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooodstevenn View Post
. ...i will be using this for hunting, and would like to make it as versatile as possible hence the wanting of a scope mount, ...
Hunting what? Upland dove/chucker .....geese....turkey...pig? A scope on a shotgun has very limited use. Do you want a HD gun? With that, you'll have a 16"/18" barrell - which is almost useless for ducks/geese/pigs.

So, I would say you first determine your primary goal. A HD gun or a pig gun with scope?
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  #17  
Old 05-21-2012, 10:04 AM
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If you get a 500 you can replace the factory slide and stock with aftermarket ones that look really good, and the 500 has a massive ammount of aftermarket support.

Also if you can find one the Winchester 1300 can be found used very cheaply and they look nice plus mine has the smoothest action I have ever used on a shotgun..
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Last edited by robcoe; 05-21-2012 at 10:10 AM..
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  #18  
Old 05-21-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooodstevenn View Post
at this point, making a decision is way to difficult for me, as i already am very indecisive. so here is a list of what i NEED not WANT and im hoping you guys can give me a straight answer.

-durability
-reliability
-interchangeable chokes
-ability to mount a scope
-cheap but still durable and reliable
-easy access to parts/upgrades
-some what idiot proof field stripping/cleaning
-little to no work before shooting out of box

let me explain that last one, i was about to pull the trigger (poor pun completely intended ) on a 870, but again the hit or miss of remington QC as stopped me. I was reading up on some problems the newer produced 870 express was having, and people were reporting stiff actions, and poor ejections. In response to these problems, some have said that remington has been building the 870 express today the same way they did 20 years ago when everyone swore by them, but now they are not polishing the internals enough, so there needs to be a break in time. they also suggested you clean out the entire gun with some remoil, and that you would possibly need to take some 0000steel wool and some oil and polish the inside of the chamber? (dont really remember what, but they said it was obviously rough feeling). with this said I would not like to deal with that as i am a bit paranoid about not being able to return my stuff and lose my hard earned money, but if i know for sure some steel wool and oil is all it takes to get a 870 working like it did out of the box 20 years ago, i have no problem with that. but if there is no definite solution to a definite problem, i would rather have out of the box durability and reliability
Talk to aippi, he is the 870 wizard since he makes a living modding out rem 870. According to him, the 870 needs to have chamber polished and mim extractor replaced with along a few springs in the trigger group. The external finish needs to be kept oiled on the express, I hear they have a tendency to rust if left dry. Here is a link for a fluff and buff of a rem 870 clone.
http://ingunowners.com/forums/long_g...pic_heavy.html
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  #19  
Old 05-21-2012, 2:22 PM
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Well I can say then forget the winchester 1300. You can find them used but aftermarket support is nill. I have a defender(the security model) and there is a very small aftermarket for it. Also they are discontinued, so again you have to buy used.

With the mossberg...I can say forget the 590A1, especially if you want it with a 28in accuchoke barrel. Which has me going back to the 500. Now I can say I like my Winchester 1300 defender over my Mossberg 500. However, the barrel changes on the 500 are super easy. I have the combo model your talking about with the 2 barrels. Model #50482. It is true the 28in barrel is a fixed choke. You can either sell the 28 fixed barrel and buy a new accuchoke barrel which is my plan. I want to use it for skeet/upland bird hunting. I got mine on sale for $269 at Big 5 but came in around $320 OTD. Or you can pay about $100 more for the field/security combo #54169 which comes with a 28in accuchoke barrel. I wish I did that.

As for Remingtons...never owned or even shot one, so no comment.
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  #20  
Old 05-21-2012, 5:13 PM
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i had already gotten the rem. 887 but after reading about the constant problems i decided i would trade it in for something else, and then posted this. anyways, i did not want to lose my 25 fee for the background check so i just stuck to what they had in stock instead of doing a return and going else where, the only mossberg they had was a combo version with a fixed choke, my only other option was a stevens 350 pump or a 870 express, so i ended up getting the 870, and will go pick it up in 10 days, thanks for the help guys, i will report back when i get time to go to the range.
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  #21  
Old 05-21-2012, 9:21 PM
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The "economical" Mossbergs and Remingtons are junk LITERALLY. Weak MIM parts. Plastic parts. Unreliable. And not exactly cheap ($350+). You will regret it.

Get a IAC shotgun. Strong steel parts. Very affordable ($170-250).

I got a 870 clone that is stronger than the 870 express. Pumps/Shoots great and takes almost all 870 accessories other than barrels. Came with very accurate GRS all for $179.

After cleaning out the grease, it shot 100% reliable first time out.
Added +1 mag extention and Hogue fore grips and stock and it feels fantastic.

If u are hell bent on a name brand, then no one can help you. Because u will have to spend more money or get cheap unreliable junk.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbt View Post
The "economical" Mossbergs and Remingtons are junk LITERALLY. Weak MIM parts. Plastic parts. Unreliable. And not exactly cheap ($350+). You will regret it.

Get a IAC shotgun. Strong steel parts. Very affordable ($170-250).

I got a 870 clone that is stronger than the 870 express. Pumps/Shoots great and takes almost all 870 accessories other than barrels. Came with very accurate GRS all for $179.

After cleaning out the grease, it shot 100% reliable first time out.
Added +1 mag extention and Hogue fore grips and stock and it feels fantastic.

If u are hell bent on a name brand, then no one can help you. Because u will have to spend more money or get cheap unreliable junk.



thanks for the input, but how did you come to this conclusion that low end shotguns (remington 870/mossberg 500) are junk? i will admit the mossberg has some fit "issues" that are not really issues at all, i've seen people with them 10 years later still shooting like it was new, and same with the remington but people actually say their action gets smoother as time passes. If remington and mossberg were truely making inferrior over priced products, i don't see why these shot guns have lasted in the market for so long with millions of users who swear by them
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  #23  
Old 05-22-2012, 6:30 AM
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I just saw a 20g single shot selling for $40 in a Pawn Shop in Brea, CA.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbt View Post
The "economical" Mossbergs and Remingtons are junk LITERALLY. Weak MIM parts. Plastic parts. Unreliable. And not exactly cheap ($350+). You will regret it.

Get a IAC shotgun. Strong steel parts. Very affordable ($170-250).

..... cheap unreliable junk.
That's the biggest piece of poppycock I've heard in a long time. I'd go so far as to it - balderdash.

Granted they're not exactly Perazzis or Krieghoffs but if you want to buy an overseas copy for ...really, $179?? and claim it's better than a proven 870 or 500, well....enjoy that Chin-Pillipine gun you have.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:28 PM
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so i finally got the 870 today after my 10 day waiting period. I have not taken it to the range yet (i probably will this weekend). I have racked through some snap caps, and noticed that you really have to rack the shotgun hard. If not you get some problems, like stove pipes.

my first 5 rounds i racked through, i got a stove pipe, then a jam, then a double feed.

loaded up some more, never got a jam again, or double feed, but some stove pipes.

started racking it hard, and it now cycles flawlessly. I will report back with real ammo this weekend.



extra thoughts:

the slide on my friend's mossberg 500 is alot smoother than mine, but im sure my remington will smoothen out with use

pushing against the elevator ramp to reload is a little annoying, i do enjoy reloading the mossberg, i just flip it over, using my weak hand i drop shells onto the bottom of the reciever and push it in with my thumb, nice and simple.


the remington is quite a bit heavier than the mossberg, but it does indeed feel more solid than the 500
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:20 PM
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With all guns, especially shotguns, the extra weight usually helps reducing the felt recoil.

Looking forward to your review, happy shooting!

David.
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Old 06-01-2012, 1:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runway1 View Post
Hunting what? Upland dove/chucker .....geese....turkey...pig? A scope on a shotgun has very limited use. Do you want a HD gun? With that, you'll have a 16"/18" barrell - which is almost useless for ducks/geese/pigs.

So, I would say you first determine your primary goal. A HD gun or a pig gun with scope?
wouldn't a slug from 20in work well against pigs?
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Old 06-01-2012, 7:32 AM
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This thread makes my head hurt
good lord
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Old 06-01-2012, 7:54 AM
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This seems like you want the 500. Are you sure you made the right choice? Just kidding!

I would have suggested also looking at the Winchester sxp.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dooodstevenn View Post
so i finally got the 870 today after my 10 day waiting period. I have not taken it to the range yet (i probably will this weekend). I have racked through some snap caps, and noticed that you really have to rack the shotgun hard. If not you get some problems, like stove pipes.

my first 5 rounds i racked through, i got a stove pipe, then a jam, then a double feed.

loaded up some more, nevTer got a jam again, or double feed, but some stove pipes.

started racking it hard, and it now cycles flawlessly. I will report back with real ammo this weekend.



extra thoughts:

the slide on my friend's mossberg 500 is alot smoother than mine, but im sure my remington will smoothen out with use

pushing against the elevator ramp to reload is a little annoying, i do enjoy reloading the mossberg, i just flip it over, using my weak hand i drop shells onto the bottom of the reciever and push it in with my thumb, nice and simple.


the remington is quite a bit heavier than the mossberg, but it does indeed feel more solid than the 500
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Old 06-01-2012, 8:03 AM
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As a Mossberg 500 owner, I'd say, get the 590. Better built, and yet 500 aftermarket stuff ALSO fits it.
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Old 06-01-2012, 8:13 AM
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590 is too heavy. Most People won't wear out a 500 or 870 express so the 590 is overkill IMO.
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Old 06-01-2012, 8:50 AM
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You can't go wrong with an 870. While you have it broken down to clean it, go over it with 0000 steel wool and some oil. You will love this gun!
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Old 06-01-2012, 8:57 AM
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I want the benelli, to me having the reciever in a polymer shell is a plus, the 3 1/2 shells is just a bonus.
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Old 06-01-2012, 9:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbt View Post
The "economical" Mossbergs and Remingtons are junk LITERALLY. Weak MIM parts. Plastic parts. Unreliable. And not exactly cheap ($350+). You will regret it.

Get a IAC shotgun. Strong steel parts. Very affordable ($170-250).

I got a 870 clone that is stronger than the 870 express. Pumps/Shoots great and takes almost all 870 accessories other than barrels. Came with very accurate GRS all for $179.

After cleaning out the grease, it shot 100% reliable first time out.
Added +1 mag extention and Hogue fore grips and stock and it feels fantastic.

If u are hell bent on a name brand, then no one can help you. Because u will have to spend more money or get cheap unreliable junk.
Pffffttt!!!

Good one!
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Old 06-01-2012, 9:36 AM
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Honestly, it is hard to beat a mossberg 500 for the price. Don't believe everything you read. The internet is full of bad reviews and a few geat praise. The typical person doesn't write a review for a product that works as advertized. The combo is in your budget and after tax and dros, you should be under 400. I have a 590 and it is a bit overkill for hunting I would say and out of your price range out the door. I have a 870p and I am personally more fond of it than the mossbergs. They do cost more though. Try to find a police trade in. They go for around 300ish so they are within budget and a great shotgun. Finish may be a little worn and the stock may have a couple dings but at least they are well broken in.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:57 AM
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I have a Mav 88. I have used it to hunt duck(Salton Sea, limited 5 times), dove, and shoot skeet. I also install a 18.5 inch barrel for HD. I have not had a failure from this shotgun.

The Mav was $220 out the door. The hunting barrel was 160 with chokes. That whole package keeps you well under budget and leaves money left over for a couple boxes of shells.
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Last edited by delisle; 06-01-2012 at 11:03 AM..
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:31 AM
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Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870. You can't go wrong with any of those.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:46 AM
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I bought the 870 with a 20" barrel because I wanted 7+1 capacity. Yeah it has the fixed cylinder choke, I like it because after I learned the pattern I've been experimenting with my accuracy at different ranges. For hunting it must be blocked to accept no more than 2+1. If you go this route be ready to have your firearm checked for compliance.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:37 PM
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Remington 870 Express Tactical in the $300 range at Big 5.

Steel receiver.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooodstevenn View Post
also the 590 has a 20in barrel with a 8+1 capacity, a heat shield, and bayonet mount, versus the 500 combo with a 5+1 nothing else but has a 28in vent/ribbed barrel (i think sights are different too?) for field and hunting would i need a higher capacity mag with a shorter barrel and heat shield?

and are the 590 or 500 security/field barrels able to switch out chokes? i keep hearing different things from people, some people say its a fixed choke, but some websites say they can use mossberg acu-chokes
If you're hunting waterfoul you have to block your tube so that there's no more than 3 rounds in your gun at any one time so capacity isn't an issue in that case. If you're hunting other things, then you need to ask yourself why 6 rounds isn't enough to take down your prey....and unless you're planning on taking out really high flying birds or ginormous beasts, a 3" shell is plenty. 3.5" really isn't going to give you much of an advantage unless you're a seasoned hunter with the know how and appreciation to implement a 3.5" shell.

the 500 is a tank. Don't listen to all the people who talk bad about one but have never owned one. They are simple and reliable. The Big 5 version might not be the most astheticly pleasing version to your eye, but after a few months of saving up, you can make it look like whatever you want it to!!! You can buy a barrel for whatever your heart desires, and the prices are so competative on mossberg 500 parts that they are usually cheaper than most other makes/models of shotgun.

At $270 it's a great first shotgun to fit all your needs, and it's built well enough that even if you go out and buy other more expensive shotguns, you'll probably still have the 500 sitting in your safe for years to come, and you're very likely to find a time when you'll pick the 500 over whatever else you have.

and if you want to go with Remington, the only problem with the 870 is it's not a 500....both are great guns, i just happen to prefer the 500 (because it's a better gun )
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