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  #1  
Old 05-10-2012, 8:33 AM
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Default Kahr vs. S&W Shield

I've been reading on other forums about some people getting rid of their Kahrs and picking up the new Smith Shield. This has led some to speculate that Kahr will lower their price in order to better deal with this direct competition. What do you guys think? Would you say that the two guns are, in fact, in direct competition with each other or would you still put the Kahr, along with the baby Glocks, as the go-to gun for CCW?
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Old 05-10-2012, 8:34 AM
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I doubt Kahr would lower their prices in response to the Shield. There have been other compact handguns released in the past, which didn't affect Kahr's prices.
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Old 05-10-2012, 8:37 AM
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Originally Posted by teflondog View Post
I doubt Kahr would lower their prices in response to the Shield. There have been other compact handguns released in the past, which didn't affect Kahr's prices.
That's what I've thought as well. I still haven't seen a Shield in person, though. Have you had the pleasure of comparing the two?
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Old 05-10-2012, 9:04 AM
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I definitely think Kahr prices will drop to compete against the M&P Shield.

There were many subcompacts on the market in the past...but most, if not all, had poor triggers. I think most were DA triggers.

Kahr PM9 has one thing going for it...can be carried in the pocket. M&P from what I have read and seen on youtube is still too large for that purpose for the most part.

I love how S&W had other manufacturers already making and launching after market parts (holsters, night sights, etc).
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Old 05-10-2012, 9:05 AM
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If you're referring to Kahr's PM9, then I highly doubt Kahr will lower the price. Particularly when it's still a different gun than the Shield. It's a pocket gun whereas the Shield is merely a single stack M&P compact. Kahr has the CW9 for the Shield to compete with, Ruger has the LC9, Kel-Tec PF9, Walther PPS, and so forth.

As much as I'd love to check the Shield out, I'm not jumping on it right away. I'm waiting until the potential bugs (reliability, feeding issues, etc.) are worked out by S&W first.
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Old 05-10-2012, 9:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SIGman Freud View Post
As much as I'd love to check the Shield out, I'm not jumping on it right away. I'm waiting until the potential bugs (reliability, feeding issues, etc.) are worked out by S&W first.
Most people aren't that smart. I am not knocking any mfgs but there is a great chance there will be bugs and why should I pay to work them out.
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Old 05-10-2012, 9:37 AM
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LAB RAT here .

I am getting as soon as it gets on the CA roster.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:21 AM
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Yes - I have a PM9, but went to buy a Kahr P9 a couple of weeks ago. I thought that there would be a little less recoil in the slightly larger Kahr. It shot about the same to me. But, as an after thought, I rented the Shield they had on the range.

Tracked one down 2 days later - sold my PM9 later in the week.

I really like the Shield much more. I pocket carry it - despite what some say that it is too big for this.

Here is a comparison with the PM9 on top of the Shield. It's not that much different...





I like the 1 extra round and also the lower recoil.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:22 AM
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LAB RAT here .

I am getting as soon as it gets on the CA roster.
heheheeh..... Lab Rat here also
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:26 AM
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I am not a huge fan of compacts, but that shield looks nice. If it is anything like my full size mp9 then I would really consider picking one up.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:33 AM
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I pick the Shield over Kahr PM9 even if the prices are equal. After plinking with my M&P 9c, I have confidence in the Smith and Wesson overall firearms. In addition, the Shield looks nicer!


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Last edited by tbc; 05-10-2012 at 10:35 AM..
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:44 AM
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I compared the PM9 with the Shield a couple weeks ago in my LGS.

Despite the picture shown above by shipwreck, I thought the Shield looked and felt quite a bit bigger than the PM9. It surprised me when I stacked the 2 like in the photo. Because when you do that, it doesn't seem like there's that much of a difference, but there is. It's like stacking a Glock 20 on top of a Glock 29. When you do that there doesn't seem to be much difference. But there is. The G20 looks and feels a lot bigger than the G29.

There's definitely more to grip with the Shield. The Kahr grip feels much smaller. So if you have big hands, you'll like the feel of the Shield much more. I suspect that's probably why shipwreck thinks the Shield recoils less - he has more grip to hang on to. But the Shield grip is so thin, it still feels small in your hands. The Shield is so thin, it will be awesome for all of you that like IWB carry. For those of you that prefer OWB carry, it won't make that much of a difference. But the larger size of the Shield will print much easier than the PM9 with OWB carry unless you're a big guy that can hide bigger guns.

The Shield is definitely too big for most pocket carry. Unless you're a big guy with big pockets, it won't fit. Cargo pants would be fine, but not most other jeans and pants.

I'm a big fan of both M&P's and Kahr's. I also own both. But for my carry use, the PM9 is still better. If I were a bigger guy that liked to carry IWB, the Shield would be better and it comes with one more round.

Keep in mind that Kahr has the CM9. It's the same size but costs much less than the PM9 if the price of the PM9 has been holding you back. But it's not on the roster yet. If you're an LEO or can get a gift from an out-of-state parent, you're good to go on the CM9. I don't know of anyone doing SSE's for CM9's. Maybe there's someone out there that can.
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Last edited by k1dude; 05-10-2012 at 10:59 AM..
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:32 AM
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Before the M&P Shield, I was considering the Kahr PM9 and Ruger LC9, but the DA trigger pull just kept me on the fence.

For me---it's not the size, 1 extra round, after market support, nor the esthetics of the Shield, BUT it trigger that won me over.

I have the M&P 15-22, M&P9 FS, M&P45c, and M&P9c..I am confident in the S&W company.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by viet4lifeOC View Post
For me---it's not the size, 1 extra round, after market support, nor the esthetics of the Shield, BUT it trigger that won me over.
I forgot to mention that. I thought the Shield had a much better trigger reset than any stock M&P to date. I don't remember much else about the trigger. But that's probably a good thing. It probably means I didn't notice anything bad about it. But for a tiny carry mousegun, I don't mind the long smooth heavier DAO trigger pull of the Kahr. It might just keep me out of trouble.

But if you have lots of other M&P's in your quiver, it would make sense to keep it all the same.
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Old 05-10-2012, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
I compared the PM9 with the Shield a couple weeks ago in my LGS.

Despite the picture shown above by shipwreck, I thought the Shield looked and felt quite a bit bigger than the PM9. It surprised me when I stacked the 2 like in the photo. Because when you do that, it doesn't seem like there's that much of a difference, but there is. It's like stacking a Glock 20 on top of a Glock 29. When you do that there doesn't seem to be much difference. But there is. The G20 looks and feels a lot bigger than the G29.

There's definitely more to grip with the Shield. The Kahr grip feels much smaller. So if you have big hands, you'll like the feel of the Shield much more. I suspect that's probably why shipwreck thinks the Shield recoils less - he has more grip to hang on to. But the Shield grip is so thin, it still feels small in your hands. The Shield is so thin, it will be awesome for all of you that like IWB carry. For those of you that prefer OWB carry, it won't make that much of a difference. But the larger size of the Shield will print much easier than the PM9 with OWB carry unless you're a big guy that can hide bigger guns.

The Shield is definitely too big for most pocket carry. Unless you're a big guy with big pockets, it won't fit. Cargo pants would be fine, but not most other jeans and pants.

I'm a big fan of both M&P's and Kahr's. I also own both. But for my carry use, the PM9 is still better. If I were a bigger guy that liked to carry IWB, the Shield would be better and it comes with one more round.

Keep in mind that Kahr has the CM9. It's the same size but costs much less than the PM9 if the price of the PM9 has been holding you back. But it's not on the roster yet. If you're an LEO or can get a gift from an out-of-state parent, you're good to go on the CM9. I don't know of anyone doing SSE's for CM9's. Maybe there's someone out there that can.
Well, actually, I compared the PM9 with the EXTRA long +1 magazine, AND I also compared the Kahr P9. It's the same size almost as the Shield with the extended grip. The Shield still has less recoil than either Kahr.

I do wear cargo pants. In jeans, the PM9 is probably too big for front pocket carry. But in cargo pants, the Shield is perfect. Hell, I've pocket carried a Glock 26 and a P99c before The shield is much thinner, though. So, it's not such an uncomfortable "block" as the double stacks.

I laid the PM9 over the shield wight where the backstraps are even - as they would be sitting in your hand.

If you line them up by the very back of the slides - then more of the front will stick out on the shield.

But, I thought that the way I did it was a fair comparison.

I can do doubletaps much better with the shield, and I like the crisper trigger break. Hell, I never even liked M&Ps before the Shield. I almost didn't rent it. I hate the trigger on the standard M&Ps. But, it's really sweet on the Shield.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:35 PM
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I am a little confused---Kahr 9mms kick? Really? I own two of the slightly larger CW9 pistols and have shot a friends PM9---recoil just ain't that bad---several prople have shot my CW9s (and my Walther PPS 9mm) and kick was not mentioned---only the DAO trigger pull on the Kahr and getting used to it were talked about. My wife shoots one of the CW9s and doesn't talk about kick---the little 40s and my Kahr P45, now they are a bit "snappy."
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:27 AM
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I am a little confused---Kahr 9mms kick? Really? I own two of the slightly larger CW9 pistols and have shot a friends PM9---recoil just ain't that bad---several prople have shot my CW9s (and my Walther PPS 9mm) and kick was not mentioned---only the DAO trigger pull on the Kahr and getting used to it were talked about. My wife shoots one of the CW9s and doesn't talk about kick---the little 40s and my Kahr P45, now they are a bit "snappy."
I agree. I have never found my PM9 recoil to be problematic. I think PM9 recoil is mild compared to some of my other guns. But I didn't say anything because perceived recoil is a very individual thing. Some people handle recoil much differently than others. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. I know big tough guys that can't handle recoil and I know little girls that aren't even phased by it.
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Old 05-11-2012, 3:28 AM
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Whatever// I see tons of posts on various forums who claim the same thing. To me, it was never a fun gun to shoot where I would drop 150-200 rounds thru it like I do with my Beretta 92.

The Shield is.
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Old 05-12-2012, 2:11 AM
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My Khar PM9 was the worst firearm I have ever owned. I had numerous (3/100) failures to return to battery. I sent it back to Khar and they replaced the barrel and guide rod. I was hoping for the best, but the failures continued. I know their are many owners out there who have very reliable PM9's, but I would not take the one I had to a rock fight.
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Old 05-12-2012, 5:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viet4lifeOC View Post
LAB RAT here .

I am getting as soon as it gets on the CA roster.
Quote:
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heheheeh..... Lab Rat here also

Did someone say something about cheese?
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