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  #1  
Old 04-21-2012, 9:57 AM
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Default New from AF Zastava AK-47 M70 PAP 7.62x39 Rifle

Hello Calgunners,

Any insights on new Zastava AK-47 M70 PAP 7.62x39 Rifle from AF? I'm tired of waiting for Vepr classic, and thinking about just picking up this one. Wacha all think?

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  #2  
Old 04-21-2012, 10:03 AM
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Don't know anything about them but I do know that is how an AK should look, wood furniture, angled gas tube and regular cap magazine (although Atlantic will ship it to you with a 10 rounder).

Looks nice, how much are they and do the places you shoot allow magnetic ammo?
I have heard that the Yugo is all dried up.

Last edited by Capybara; 04-21-2012 at 12:59 PM..
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
The Zastava AKs are more properly "variants" and just about everything you might decide to add later needs to be Yugo specific.
What do you mean by Yugo specific? Please explain.

Thx
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  #4  
Old 04-21-2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by raceraxe View Post
Hello Calgunners,

Any insights on new Zastava AK-47 M70 PAP 7.62x39 Rifle from AF? I'm tired of waiting for Vepr classic, and thinking about just picking up this one. Wacha all think?

The M70 is a great AK, but it's not really an AK47 (though in many respects, its closer to the original AK47 than the stamped AKM). The Zastava AKs are more properly "variants" and just about everything you might decide to add later needs to be Yugo specific. Here is what is different from AKM (stamped AK's) in general:

* 1.5 mm receiver like the RPK light machine gun/squad support weapon
* Bulged (reinforced) trunnion like the RPK
* Buttstock, pistol grip attached using through bolt and block typically found on milled receiver AKs
* Barrel slightly heavier than even original AK47 (AKM has much lighter barrel) and chamber/bore are not chrome lined
* Integrated grenade sight/gas shutoff in gas block for firing rifle grenades with spigot attached to muzzle, PAP lacks this which is a bonus in my view
* Flip up luminescent front sight for night fighting
* Longer than average beech wood buttstock and handguard, rubber buttpad for aid in recoil when firing rifle grenades
* Short top cover due to length of rear sight block and locks with a spring loaded locking pin to hold the top on when firing heavy recoiling rifle grenades
NOTE: The one in the image is likely just a rail riveted or welded to an ordinary sheet metal M70 top cover, not recommended.
* M70B2/M70AB2 models have selector switch with notch to hold open charging handle for magazine changes
* M70 magazines have bolt hold open feature with taller follower than holds back the bolt on the last round, a cheaper alternative to the earlier milled M64's LRBHO trip lever and release

Yugoslavia was not part of the Warsaw Pact (a founding member of the "Unaligned Nations") and so did not have any obligation to follow any particular pattern. If you are fine with the Yugo M70 configuration as it comes, I say go for it. If you want to change it later, options will be somewhat limited and can be costly compared to more common AKMs and AK74s.

Good luck,

R
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Last edited by Richard Erichsen; 05-05-2012 at 7:33 AM..
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  #5  
Old 04-21-2012, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
Don't know anything about them but I do know that is how an AK should look, wood furniture, angled gas tube and regular cap magazine (although Atlantic will ship it to you with a 10 rounder).

Looks nice, now much are they and do the places you shoot allow magnetic ammo?
I have heard that the Yugo is all dried up.
They're listed $679 @ AF. As for the magnetic ammo, I dunno any range that allows 'em in So Cal.
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  #6  
Old 04-21-2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by raceraxe View Post
What do you mean by Yugo specific? Please explain.

Thx
The Yugoslavian/Serbian Zastava weapons are unique. About the only parts compatible with the AKM are magazines, bolt group, ammunition, fire control groups, muzzle attachments, slings and small parts like barrel pins and and the small retainer pins for the gas block, rear sight block and front sight.

Almost everything else has more in common with the RPK or milled AK47s, though dimensions are just off enough to guarantee you'll need to modify the part or buy Yugo specific components. Even the selector switch is unique. The axis pins for the trigger and hammer are of the longer type used on the RPK. The gas block, having a valve to allow the system to be turned off to launch a rifle grenade often needs to be replaced because it is corroded or even rusted in the open position. CNC Warrior makes the valves, Turbo This makes the blocks for the pistol grips if you find yours have been cross-threaded. The PAP has a conventional gas block without the gas-shutoff feature. A bonus in my opinion. The long bolt for the buttstock can be bought from Apex Gunparts, replacement wood is also sold by Apex but you can usually get a better deal from Ironwood Designs directly. In both cases the wood is CNC cut, but is not finished and will need sanding and stain/varnish or traditional boilded linseed or tung oil if you go that route, assuming the wood is too banged up to steam the dents out or worth bothering to strip and refinish. Most of the loose M70 parts if you need anything replaced are pretty much gone and only really available in kit form. Interestingly the Yugoslavian government setup the firearms factory back in the early 1980s in Iraq and thus the Iraqi Tabuk is actually an M70B2 with Iraqi proof marks and Arabic stamps and indicators. There are a few vendors that sells parts for these rifles that will thus fit the Serbian M70 series.

As long as you realize this is an AK variant, not an AKM and not interchangeable with a milled AK47, you should do fine. There are many excellent AK variants (Isreali, South African, Finnish and Polish most notably) with their chief downside being that parts that fit any old AK usually won't fit the variants.

R
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Last edited by Richard Erichsen; 06-07-2012 at 8:34 PM..
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  #7  
Old 04-21-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
If you want to change it later, options will be somewhat limited and can be costly compared to more common AKMs and AK74s.

Good luck,

R
What are the limited options on M70 compared with regular AKMs or AK74s? Thanks for the help,

Chris
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  #8  
Old 04-21-2012, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by raceraxe View Post
What are the limited options on M70 compared with regular AKMs or AK74s? Thanks for the help,

Chris
Railed Handguards:
* If you decide to add modular bits and pieces, say you want a rail instead of the wood handguards, your best bets are the Ultimak ACR2-MC (http://ultimak.com/ACR2Compact.htm) which is the "short" handguard designed for Yugo or milled AKs.

* A somewhat cheaper option exists in the form of the Midwest Industries rail, model number MI-AK-Y. (http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/...ategory_id=241)

Railed Gas tubes:
* For a railed gas tube, Ultimak model number M9 was the only option and provides a forward mounted optic rail. It costs a bit more than the type for more common AKs. (http://ultimak.com/m9.htm). Texas Weapon Systems stepped up and are making one for the AKM, but have not yet redesigned the part for Yugo, though it supposedly in the works. This will provide a continuous rail across the entire top of the rifle at the same height.

Railed Top Cover:
* If you want a railed top cover that locks to the rear trunnion for reproducible zero even after full field strip, Texas Weapon Systems Dog Leg 2 is an option. (http://texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html). The Yugo model number is "32312." Be aware only a wire guide rail is compatible with this top cover and the back end is replaced by a T section that replaces the guide rail rear "button" and fits in the T recess in the rear trunnion. It often needs light fitting with jewelers files to fit, this is to make sure the fit is as tight as possible and avoids wobble that could effect optic POA/zero. All USA made parts, though not counted against 922r unfortunately. It looks intimidating at first, but after you've changed the recoil spring a few times, the whole procedure is a 30 second operation. Youtube provides a good set of tutorials.

Aperture Sights for Railed Top Cover:
* Texas Weapons Systems makes a fixed aluminum peep sight for this rail for less than $40, though I prefer to leave my front sight centered and Locktite'd, doing my adjustments from the rear with something more adjustable.

* NECG adjustable peep sight which can use a wide assortment of screw-in aperture sizes (two are supplied with the sight, .93" & .125") and is fully adjustable for windage and elevation. The Peep Sight for Weaver Style Bases, Model N-106 is the one I use on this rail as my low profile back-up sight. (http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/)

Top Cover Aperture Sight:
* For a particularly good aperture sight (this is what I have on my two M70B2s), the Tech-Sights AK100Y and AK200Y models are ideal. The "Y" suffix indicates the part is for a Yugo. While "S" indicates Saiga or regular flavor AK. (http://www.tech-sights.com/ak.htm). The AK100 is dual aperture/flip type with windage adjustment, while the AK200 is single aperture with elevation adjustment in addition to windage. I prefer a single fixed aperture with elevation adjustments to set the zero out to 150 meters. Like the TWS rail system, it can be removed and re-attached without effecting zero because it replaces the recoil guide rod and is only compatible with wire type guides. Like the TWS is requires light fitting with jewelers files and works as well as it does because it is a snug fit with the T recess on top of the rear trunnion.

Buttstock Adapters:
* Because of the unique rear stock trunnion, you'll need an ACE adapter to mount a folding, or fixed skeleton stock (http://riflestocks.com/store/product35.html). If you don't need a folding stock and prefer the wood you already have, this is a non-issue, but it's something to be aware of since only the milled AKs typically use a single throughbolt like the Yugo and their rear trunnions are once again different from the Yugo dimensionally.

Slings:
* The best slings I have found for these rifles is the shorter of two slings made by Andy's Leather called the "Ching Sling." The longer model was better for my longer rifles, called the "Guerrilla Sniper." http://www.shottist.com/ching.htm.

* I also had Zac re-design this pattern in synthetic paracord (http://www.sandstormcustomriflesling...spec_sling.htm) for a lighter sling with HK style hooks.

Sling Loops/Swivels:
* The rifle is pretty heavy and if you bounce it with a full magazine, a scope mount and scope, you'll generally bend the flimsy sheet metal and wire sling swivels. I cut mine off welded over, screwing a heavier made variety into the wood stocks directly and along the bottom edge to make the weapon more ambidextrous. You can buy heavier swivels for AK over at Midway or Brownells, or pay a bit more and get them from Krebs or K-Var. http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.ph...8&cat=0&page=3

Wood furniture:
* If wood is your thing, you can steam, strip and refinish the wood the rifle comes with, but generally the pistol grip is plastic. You can fix that with a wood grip similar to the M76 sniper rifle which has a black oxided metal ferule around the top and a round nut retainer at the bottom. Always place a thick round washer under the nut, it is not included, but is a common hardware store item. (http://ironwooddesigns.com/IWDNEWYUGO_2.html). You can buy just the pistol grip, but for best appearance and to make sure it all matches, you'd be better off buying the whole kit.

Side Rail for Traditional Optics Mount:
* Not specific to Yugo, but if you want a side rail mount that is as tough as the rifle, look no further than the Kalinka BP-02 (http://aa-ok.com/ak-bp-02-high-mount...aver-rail.html). This is a good choice if you opt to use the side rail mount instead of a top cover picatinny rail like the TWS Dog Leg 2. It's also cheaper than the rail options. The "High" mount is high enough to look beneath your optic through your iron sights. The low mount will catch the top 3rd of the sight picture, which now that I've done it is more than a bit distracting.

Optics:
* The same AA-OK sell good Balarusian and Russian optics (red dots, fixed and zoom scopes) which are cost effective and as tough as the rifles they are meant for, unlike a lot of the cheap Chinese and Taiwanese optics which can break with relatively little use. PK-A, PK-AS in particular are price/performance leaders and can be beaten as hard as the rifle and keep going. The options with the integrated sidemount rail are of the quality of the Kalinka BP-02, in a word "tough."

Trigger Group:
* Also not Yugo specific, but a good Yugo M70 demands a good trigger and Red Star Arms makes what is probably the best out there. I have mine adjusted down to 3.5 lbs. pull with the overtravel eliminated and set right now with a single stage since the two stage setting just didn't quite "feel" right, though with a few allen wrenches it can be adjusted for either. (http://www.redstararms.com/index1.html?525.html&1). Don't worry about the Red Star Arms warning for not compatible with M76 (7.92x57 mm Mauser sniper rifle). That is a very different rifle and has even more specialized requirements than the M70 and M72 RPK type.

Ammo:
* As for ammo, these rifles will digest 'anything' in the caliber. The Yugo milisurplus (M67) is the best of the best. Brass cased, copper jacketted and lead cored, keeping you out of any trouble with the range rules pretty much anywhere all year round. It's getting harder to find and prices are going up as the remaining stocks disappear, but it's the best choice until it's all gone. Fiocchi, S&B, Privi Partizan (Serbian by the way), Winchester, Hornady and many others are also non-magnetic, lead core ammo, though it costs more than steel Warsaw Pact milsurp or Yugo copper/brass milsurp. Don't fret if the case is steel, that doesn't mean the bullet core or jacket is. The prohibition is almost always for the bullet, not the case.

Cleaning and Care:
* The best cleaning systems are the .30 caliber bore snakes that cost less than $20. Less frequent full cleanings to remove the carbon deposits in the bore, chamber, gas block and gas tube can be done with suitable bristle brushes. The brass/bronze types are the best, but nylon will do just as well. I don't buy solvents for these rifles, I make my own. Look up "Ed's Red" (http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=9). Just be careful around any lacquer, vinyl, urethane or most polymers and synthetic coatings since the acetone (if you do the acetone type mix) will soften or eat them.

Lubrication:
* The best lubrication is simple and cheap. For the bolt lugs, carrier and FCG axis, white lithium grease (anything that slides gets greased!). For the FCG, 30 weight engine oil, which also goes on the bolt head works best. Nothing special needed and it will work even without if it must.

Good luck.

R
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Last edited by Richard Erichsen; 04-23-2012 at 12:30 PM..
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  #9  
Old 04-21-2012, 1:02 PM
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Originally Posted by raceraxe View Post
As for the magnetic ammo, I dunno any range that allows 'em in So Cal.
Burbank Rifle and Revolver Club in Castaic
Desert Marksman in Antelope Valley
Winchester Canyon Gun Club in Santa Barbara

All allow magnetic ammo. But I agree, can't think of any ranges in the LA part of SoCal that do. Not sure about Burro, Lytle, etc. because I have never been to any of them.
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Old 04-21-2012, 9:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
If you decide to add modular bits and pieces, say you want a rail instead of the wood handguards, your best bets are the Ultimak ACR2-MC (http://ultimak.com/ACR2Compact.htm) which is the "short" handguard designed for Yugo or milled AKs.......


The best lubrication is simple and cheap. For the bolt lugs, carrier and FCG axis, white lithium grease (anything that slides gets greased!). For the FCG, 30 weight engine oil, which also goes on the bolt head. Nothing special needed and it will work even without if it must.

Good luck.

R
By God, you should be awarded PhD in AKology. Thanks for the great information. Just came back from shooting my Vepr Hunter .308 had a "blast" (pun intended absolutely,)
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Old 04-22-2012, 5:28 AM
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Came in expecting to see the polymer thumbhole-stocked version and am pleasantly surprised. Posting so I can refer back to Richard Erichsen's post/wealth of info as well.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by DasBoost View Post
Came in expecting to see the polymer thumbhole-stocked version and am pleasantly surprised. Posting so I can refer back to Richard Erichsen's post/wealth of info as well.
Meh .... this guy is a bonafide AK GURU ... +1


........ I'll be damned ....


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Old 04-22-2012, 3:01 PM
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Question for the AK gurus: How does the Zastava compare to the Interarms and WaffenWerks and M&M M10 offerings? Price-point is roughly the same and I'm very interested in an AK still but unsure as there is so much more coming on to the market these days. It's not a kit build like IA and WW and imported like the M&M, but not sure of how it stacks up to other offerings.

Not trying to re-ask the OP's question, but just wondering how it compares to others.
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Old 04-23-2012, 6:08 AM
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Originally Posted by DasBoost View Post
Question for the AK gurus: How does the Zastava compare to the Interarms and WaffenWerks and M&M M10 offerings? Price-point is roughly the same and I'm very interested in an AK still but unsure as there is so much more coming on to the market these days. It's not a kit build like IA and WW and imported like the M&M, but not sure of how it stacks up to other offerings.

Not trying to re-ask the OP's question, but just wondering how it compares to others.
All I know about the WW and M&M offerings is what I've read, which is hardly authoritative. I've never handled wares from either. However, It's my opinion from the list of components you could build one easily enough yourself and probably for somewhat less than their asking price.

I'd use a different combo gas block/front sight and muzzle brake if it were me. I don't care for the type common to the AK105/Krinkov types, I prefer this one instead: https://www.venomtactical.com/shop/gas-block-p-72.html Rifle Dynamics can replace the front post with a white stripe or tritium insert post for not much money and both elevation and windage adjustments can be made by turning the post from above with a simple slotted screwdriver or the multi-tool that comes in an AK's capsule kit. The post is eccentric so that a turn in either direction will adjust for windage. I keep it locked down with Lock-Tite fully centered and do all adjustment from the rear with the Tech-Sights AK200Y.

R
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by raceraxe View Post
Hello Calgunners,

Any insights on new Zastava AK-47 M70 PAP 7.62x39 Rifle from AF? I'm tired of waiting for Vepr classic, and thinking about just picking up this one. Wacha all think?

Get it! It is the best AK style rifle you can get in my totally honest un-bias opinion.
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
All I know about the WW and M&M offerings is what I've read, which is hardly authoritative. I've never handled wares from either. However, It's my opinion from the list of components you could build one easily enough yourself and probably for somewhat less than their asking price.

I'd use a different combo gas block/front sight and muzzle brake if it were me. I don't care for the type common to the AK105/Krinkov types, I prefer this one instead: https://www.venomtactical.com/shop/gas-block-p-72.html Rifle Dynamics can replace the front post with a white stripe or tritium insert post for not much money and both elevation and windage adjustments can be made by turning the post from above with a simple slotted screwdriver or the multi-tool that comes in an AK's capsule kit. The post is eccentric so that a turn in either direction will adjust for windage. I keep it locked down with Lock-Tite fully centered and do all adjustment from the rear with the Tech-Sights AK200Y.

R

Thanks for the insight; I've always wondered about the factory-build rifles versus the kit-build rifles made by companies (not the individual kit builds loved by members here). It seems like a really attractive option for the price.


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Get it! It is the best AK style rifle you can get in my totally honest un-bias opinion.
Hmmmm.... Well-played, good sir...
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
Railed Handguards:
* If you decide to add modular bits and pieces, say you want a rail instead of the wood handguards, your best bets are the Ultimak ACR2-MC (http://ultimak.com/ACR2Compact.htm) which is the "short" handguard designed for Yugo or milled AKs.

* A somewhat cheaper option exists in the form of the Midwest Industries rail, model number MI-AK-Y. (http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/...ategory_id=241)

Railed Gas tubes:
* For a railed gas tube, Ultimak model number M9 was the only option and provides a forward mounted optic rail. It costs a bit more than the type for more common AKs. (http://ultimak.com/m9.htm). Texas Weapon Systems stepped up and are making one for the AKM, but have not yet redesigned the part for Yugo, though it supposedly in the works. This will provide a continuous rail across the entire top of the rifle at the same height.

Railed Top Cover:
* If you want a railed top cover that locks to the rear trunnion for reproducible zero even after full field strip, Texas Weapon Systems Dog Leg 2 is an option. (http://texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html). The Yugo model number is "32312." Be aware only a wire guide rail is compatible with this top cover and the back end is replaced by a T section that replaces the guide rail rear "button" and fits in the T recess in the rear trunnion. It often needs light fitting with jewelers files to fit, this is to make sure the fit is as tight as possible and avoids wobble that could effect optic POA/zero. All USA made parts, though not counted against 922r unfortunately. It looks intimidating at first, but after you've changed the recoil spring a few times, the whole procedure is a 30 second operation. Youtube provides a good set of tutorials.

Aperture Sights for Railed Top Cover:
* Texas Weapons Systems makes a fixed aluminum peep sight for this rail for less than $40, though I prefer to leave my front sight centered and Locktite'd, doing my adjustments from the rear with something more adjustable.

* NECG adjustable peep sight which can use a wide assortment of screw-in aperture sizes (two are supplied with the sight, .93" & .125") and is fully adjustable for windage and elevation. The Peep Sight for Weaver Style Bases, Model N-106 is the one I use on this rail as my low profile back-up sight. (http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/)

Top Cover Aperture Sight:
* For a particularly good aperture sight (this is what I have on my two M70B2s), the Tech-Sights AK100Y and AK200Y models are ideal. The "Y" suffix indicates the part is for a Yugo. While "S" indicates Saiga or regular flavor AK. (http://www.tech-sights.com/ak.htm). The AK100 is dual aperture/flip type with windage adjustment, while the AK200 is single aperture with elevation adjustment in addition to windage. I prefer a single fixed aperture with elevation adjustments to set the zero out to 150 meters. Like the TWS rail system, it can be removed and re-attached without effecting zero because it replaces the recoil guide rod and is only compatible with wire type guides. Like the TWS is requires light fitting with jewelers files and works as well as it does because it is a snug fit with the T recess on top of the rear trunnion.

Buttstock Adapters:
* Because of the unique rear stock trunnion, you'll need an ACE adapter to mount a folding, or fixed skeleton stock (http://riflestocks.com/store/product35.html). If you don't need a folding stock and prefer the wood you already have, this is a non-issue, but it's something to be aware of since only the milled AKs typically use a single throughbolt like the Yugo and their rear trunnions are once again different from the Yugo dimensionally.

Slings:
* The best slings I have found for these rifles is the shorter of two slings made by Andy's Leather called the "Ching Sling." The longer model was better for my longer rifles, called the "Guerrilla Sniper." http://www.shottist.com/ching.htm.

* I also had Zac re-design this pattern in synthetic paracord (http://www.sandstormcustomriflesling...spec_sling.htm) for a lighter sling with HK style hooks.

Sling Loops/Swivels:
* The rifle is pretty heavy and if you bounce it with a full magazine, a scope mount and scope, you'll generally bend the flimsy sheet metal and wire sling swivels. I cut mine off welded over, screwing a heavier made variety into the wood stocks directly and along the bottom edge to make the weapon more ambidextrous. You can buy heavier swivels for AK over at Midway or Brownells, or pay a bit more and get them from Krebs or K-Var. http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.ph...8&cat=0&page=3

Wood furniture:
* If wood is your thing, you can steam, strip and refinish the wood the rifle comes with, but generally the pistol grip is plastic. You can fix that with a wood grip similar to the M76 sniper rifle which has a black oxided metal ferule around the top and a round nut retainer at the bottom. Always place a thick round washer under the nut, it is not included, but is a common hardware store item. (http://ironwooddesigns.com/IWDNEWYUGO_2.html). You can buy just the pistol grip, but for best appearance and to make sure it all matches, you'd be better off buying the whole kit.

Side Rail for Traditional Optics Mount:
* Not specific to Yugo, but if you want a side rail mount that is as tough as the rifle, look no further than the Kalinka BP-02 (http://aa-ok.com/ak-bp-02-high-mount...aver-rail.html). This is a good choice if you opt to use the side rail mount instead of a top cover picatinny rail like the TWS Dog Leg 2. It's also cheaper than the rail options. The "High" mount is high enough to look beneath your optic through your iron sights. The low mount will catch the top 3rd of the sight picture, which now that I've done it is more than a bit distracting.

Optics:
* The same AA-OK sell good Balarusian and Russian optics (red dots, fixed and zoom scopes) which are cost effective and as tough as the rifles they are meant for, unlike a lot of the cheap Chinese and Taiwanese optics which can break with relatively little use.

Trigger Group:
* Also not Yugo specific, but a good Yugo M70 demands a good trigger and Red Star Arms makes what is probably the best out there. I have mine adjusted down to 3.5 lbs. pull with the overtravel eliminated and set right now with a single stage since the two stage setting just didn't quite "feel" right, though with a few allen wrenches it can be adjusted for either. (http://www.redstararms.com/index1.html?525.html&1). Don't worry about the Red Star Arms warning for not compatible with M76 (7.92x57 mm Mauser sniper rifle). That is a very different rifle and has even more specialized requirements than the M70 and M72 RPK type.

Ammo:
* As for ammo, these rifles will digest 'anything' in the caliber. The Yugo milisurplus (M67) is the best of the best. Brass cased, copper jacketted and lead cored, keeping you out of any trouble with the range rules pretty much anywhere all year round. It's getting harder to find and prices are going up as the remaining stocks disappear, but it's the best choice until it's all gone. Fiocchi, S&B, Privi Partizan (Serbian by the way), Winchester, Hornady and many others are also non-magnetic, lead core ammo, though it costs more than steel Warsaw Pact milsurp or Yugo copper/brass milsurp. Don't fret if the case is steel, that doesn't mean the bullet core or jacket is. The prohibition is almost always for the bullet, not the case.

Cleaning and Care:
* The best cleaning systems are the .30 caliber bore snakes that cost less than $20. Less frequent full cleanings to remove the carbon deposits in the bore, chamber, gas block and gas tube can be done with suitable bristle brushes. The brass/bronze types are the best, but nylon will do just as well. I don't buy solvents for these rifles, I make my own. Look up "Ed's Red" (http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=9). Just be careful around any lacquer, vinyl, urethane or most polymers and synthetic coatings since the acetone (if you do the acetone type mix) will soften or eat them.

Lubrication:
* The best lubrication is simple and cheap. For the bolt lugs, carrier and FCG axis, white lithium grease (anything that slides gets greased!). For the FCG, 30 weight engine oil, which also goes on the bolt head works best. Nothing special needed and it will work even without if it must.

Good luck.

R
WOW! I wish I had read this quote about a year ago before I bought a couple of beryl style rails trying to acquire peep-style rear sights.. Only to learn they simply don't sit on the same horizontal plane as the front sight. I now have the Tech-Sights single aperature with elev/wind adjust and they are great! Any AK noob would do well with your write up.
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:14 PM
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My, they sure went up in price. Only a year ago I bought mine for $320 (it wasn't a CAI import though, but an EAA), and *****ed about having to pay transfer fees on it (first to an intermediary FFL to have the maglock installed, and then to a CA FFL), since they weren't sold locally... It came up to about $500 or so, after all the transfers.

ETA: Looks like EAA upped the price to $488 now...
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:29 PM
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This forum is getting even better. Thats a lot of info Richard. Nick is also an AK/Comm Bloc guru, as I have asked questions to him and he has never steered me wrong.

Update-OP, where did you see this? I looked on Atlantic Firearms site and didnt see it under the California Legal page. Make sure they will ship it, as some things not listed on the Cali Legal page are a no-go. I did see a Yugo AK variant on the Cali page, but it is $999, here- http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1036.aspx
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SURVIVOR619 View Post
WOW! I wish I had read this quote about a year ago before I bought a couple of beryl style rails trying to acquire peep-style rear sights.. Only to learn they simply don't sit on the same horizontal plane as the front sight. I now have the Tech-Sights single aperature with elev/wind adjust and they are great! Any AK noob would do well with your write up.
Intuitively, anything that raises the POA above the rear sight base the way the Beryl style mount does is going to be a fairly rotten platform for iron sights. It's purpose was for optics, not BUIS sights. The lowest of the low profile would be too high, as you've unfortunately found out.

The Tech-Sights and a side-rail with a high mount Kalinka BP-02 are unbeatable if you want the best of both.

R
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
Burbank Rifle and Revolver Club in Castaic
Desert Marksman in Antelope Valley
Winchester Canyon Gun Club in Santa Barbara

All allow magnetic ammo. But I agree, can't think of any ranges in the LA part of SoCal that do. Not sure about Burro, Lytle, etc. because I have never been to any of them.
Raahauges in Norco
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Old 04-23-2012, 1:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NYsteveZ View Post
This forum is getting even better. Thats a lot of info Richard. Nick is also an AK/Comm Bloc guru, as I have asked questions to him and he has never steered me wrong.

Update-OP, where did you see this? I looked on Atlantic Firearms site and didnt see it under the California Legal page. Make sure they will ship it, as some things not listed on the Cali Legal page are a no-go. I did see a Yugo AK variant on the Cali page, but it is $999, here- http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1036.aspx

AF said M70 were legal in ca with bb installed.
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Old 04-23-2012, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by raceraxe View Post
AF said M70 were legal in ca with bb installed.
Cool I know they had issues with sending certain models, even certain parts kits but thats understandable. I got my VEPR from Atlantic and they are good to go. I would definately do business with them again in the future, but I am also blessed with having Direct Action Solutions near me.
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Old 04-24-2012, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by NYsteveZ View Post
Cool I know they had issues with sending certain models, even certain parts kits but thats understandable. I got my VEPR from Atlantic and they are good to go. I would definately do business with them again in the future, but I am also blessed with having Direct Action Solutions near me.
AF told me most of the non- Arsenal builds were ok for ca. I really want SGL 21-61, but can't get them from AF(only SGL 23-61 which has bb riveted to the gun). I have also been waiting for Vepr classic and Vepr MD2 like forever. AF has been repeating "in 2 wks" since last month....maybe i should just buy this M70...btw how do u like your Vepr?
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Old 04-25-2012, 6:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SURVIVOR619 View Post
WOW! I wish I had read this quote about a year ago before I bought a couple of beryl style rails trying to acquire peep-style rear sights.. Only to learn they simply don't sit on the same horizontal plane as the front sight. I now have the Tech-Sights single aperature with elev/wind adjust and they are great! Any AK noob would do well with your write up.
It wasn't here a year ago, I just wrote it.

BTW, thanks for the compliment. I looked long and hard and found little information when I started my M70 and M72 builds and am doing my part to fill the void.

It's my view you can and perhaps should mix and match modern with traditional. I've done just that on a couple of builds because it shouldn't all be for looks, it's a firearm you'll be shooting after all. Anything which aids in doing that better or more comfortably is worthwhile in my view.

R
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Old 04-25-2012, 6:52 AM
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Originally Posted by raceraxe View Post
AF said M70 were legal in ca with bb installed.
They are not banned by named by the Roberti-Roos act, so now there is just steering clear of problems caused by AW "features." You have two choices:

1) Bullet Button with all the "evil" you can heap on it but with a 10 round fixed magazine configuration (or those blocked/emasculated 10/30 magazines). For an AR, this is probably the right way to go, but for the AK, the bullet buttons are fairly awful.

2) Go "featureless" (free of "evil") with a grip strap of your own design to render your pistol grip impossible to wrap your thumb around below the action (the definition of a pistol grip is "conspicuously below the action") or a Solar Tactical grip strap for your weapon. With this change and a lack of other features (forward vertical hand grips, flash suppressors, etc) you can feel free to use any pre-ban magazines you might have. I hate bullet buttons, so this is my route.

R
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Old 04-25-2012, 7:00 AM
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Originally Posted by raceraxe View Post
AF told me most of the non- Arsenal builds were ok for ca. I really want SGL 21-61, but can't get them from AF(only SGL 23-61 which has bb riveted to the gun). I have also been waiting for Vepr classic and Vepr MD2 like forever. AF has been repeating "in 2 wks" since last month....maybe i should just buy this M70...btw how do u like your Vepr?
AF will install a bullet button, they will not, nor have I seen anyone who will, install a grip strap and strip off any items that could deviate from a "featureless" Off-List configuration.

From a middle-man perspective, the absolute minimum required for compliance maximizes the thin margin for profits. The bullet button is well understood at this point and doesn't require having to replace anything once fitted. The grip strap on the other hand may require a more thorough evaluation of what constitutes a "feature" and if it does must be removed, which can add time and potential for litigation or just a lot of hassle to the process. Sending a disassembled rifle that you can equip with your own grip strap is one approach, but I prefer to build rather than buy. There are no mysteries in any of my rifles. Every nick, scratch, dent or slightly out of round rivet is there because I did it. It's full control and is a lot less difficult (with a competent helper) than it sounds.

R
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