Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calgunners in Service
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-31-2014, 3:16 PM
iamnoone iamnoone is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 33
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Veterans treated as less than LEO's

How does it feel to serve in the military and think you're protecting the rights of the citizenry while law enforcement and their unions continue to erode the ability of those same citizens to own firearms that only LEO's can purchase?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-31-2014, 3:23 PM
dominic's Avatar
dominic dominic is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Imperial Valley
Posts: 3,045
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Good question. I remember when I was in the Army, they told us that we did'nt have to follow orders that were unlawful. Now ask this same question of LEO here, if they are given orders that are unconstitutional, why do they follow them?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-31-2014, 3:32 PM
radgokart's Avatar
radgokart radgokart is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: AZ
Posts: 297
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

LEOs aren't to blame for the laws politicians make. I get the spirit of the question, just wanted to put in my two cents.
__________________
Quote:
“Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!" - Theodore Roosevelt

NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-31-2014, 4:09 PM
Bowhunter_619's Avatar
Bowhunter_619 Bowhunter_619 is offline
CGSSA Associate
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Temecula
Posts: 626
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

post
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-31-2014, 5:36 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Texas for now
Posts: 17,322
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by radgokart View Post
LEOs aren't to blame for the laws politicians make. I get the spirit of the question, just wanted to put in my two cents.
rank and file LEO may not be to blame but their leadership and unions are.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php

Quote:
Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
contact the governor
https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-31-2014, 5:42 PM
leok20's Avatar
leok20 leok20 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NorCAL/Sacramento
Posts: 974
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

This thread could turn ugly.

With that said.....just like in the military there are soldiers, there is support and there are some that should be given limited to access to anything other than a broom.

The military for the most part polices their own, at least among rank and file. The police seem to only have unions to justify why they did what they did. Nobody to actually police them.


"I said good day!"
__________________
Huh?

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-31-2014, 5:44 PM
njineermike's Avatar
njineermike njineermike is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CO
Posts: 8,325
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Who has the pool for posts before this clown gets banned?
__________________
NRA lifetime member
2AF Defender member

When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

Last edited by njineermike; 01-31-2014 at 10:31 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-31-2014, 5:53 PM
farmerjoe's Avatar
farmerjoe farmerjoe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The I.E.
Posts: 806
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

And, at the same time, SFVPOA v SF moves right along in court
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=854136
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-31-2014, 9:27 PM
iamnoone iamnoone is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 33
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

"Who has the pool for posts before this clown gets banned?"

Who has the pool for whether or not this guy shines shoes for a living?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-31-2014, 10:31 PM
njineermike's Avatar
njineermike njineermike is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CO
Posts: 8,325
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnoone View Post
"Who has the pool for posts before this clown gets banned?"

Who has the pool for whether or not this guy shines shoes for a living?
Who had 38? You just won 10 internets.
__________________
NRA lifetime member
2AF Defender member

When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-01-2014, 3:35 AM
Anthracis Anthracis is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: الفلوجة
Posts: 974
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

***

Last edited by Anthracis; 11-21-2014 at 11:55 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-01-2014, 4:58 AM
Mud Eagle Mud Eagle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 327
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

More importantly for everyone to remember: there is only one type of citizen in the US....veterans and LEOs aren't a type of "super citizen" entitled to anything that any other citizen isn't.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-01-2014, 5:05 AM
shooterfpga's Avatar
shooterfpga shooterfpga is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lakeside, CA / Crosby, Tx
Posts: 2,742
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Theres two types of citizens. One that earns their citizenship and one that has no loyalty to country.

If you dont invest, why should you expect a return.
__________________
U.S. Army Combat Engineer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactuscooler View Post
I have Paramilitary training
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-01-2014, 9:29 AM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 4,049
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominic View Post
Good question. I remember when I was in the Army, they told us that we did'nt have to follow orders that were unlawful. Now ask this same question of LEO here, if they are given orders that are unconstitutional, why do they follow them?
Dominic,

Good question. Here's my cut at an answer.

As an LEO, I have the same the duty to disobey, and to take corrective action action through a chain of command, an order which is unlawful, as I did when I was a member of the military. No difference.

You need to remember, and value, what the Constitution is. It's a document that reflects the common values our country was founded on and it provides our government with the limited authorities and powers needed to perform the its functions. I've bolded the word "common" because that's an important point. Not everyone is going to agree on things. If we did, we wouldn't need a Constitution. The Constitution has two important characteristics: 1) It's a living document. There a mechanism to update it as things change. and 2) It provides a mechanism to resolve issues where folks don't agree.

Since this a guns forum, I'll give my next example using the Second Amendment. The original Constitution said nothing about weapons - zip, nada. The first change to the Constitution gave us ten amendments, including the second. Here's what the Second Amendment says:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I read the statement in two parts, an explanatory part that a "well regulated" militia is necessary, and the authoritative part that government shall not infringe on the right to keep and bear arms. I read the word "regulated" as it was used at the time to mean "well trained".

But that's not the only way that those words can be interpreted. The can also be read as a whole meaning the people have a right to keep a well regulated militia, and that government is responsible for the regulation (For my example, I tried to read the words as far opposite of what I think they mean).

The Constitution establishes courts to resolve differences of opinion. If we all thought the same thing we wouldn't need courts either. Now if the courts elect to follow the second interpretation of the Second Amendment, that, IMHO would be unwise, stupid, wrong, but it would not be unconstitutional. The Constitution reflects the common values of our country. The instant that someone gives their own individual reading of the document, and holds their own individual opinion above all others, all they've done is to trash the Constitution. Folks have a right to their own opinion, they have the right to persuade others to their opinion. But they do not have the right to be persuasive, or to impose their opinion on others. But more importantly, they don't have the right to claim the authority of the Constitution in doing so.

Rant over.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-01-2014, 9:30 AM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 4,049
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shooterfpga View Post
Theres two types of citizens. One that earns their citizenship and one that has no loyalty to country.

If you dont invest, why should you expect a return.
Excellent post. Thank you
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-01-2014, 9:42 AM
dominic's Avatar
dominic dominic is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Imperial Valley
Posts: 3,045
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Thanks RickD excellent reply. Well thought out and I appreciate your views.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-01-2014, 9:44 AM
teg33 teg33 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,415
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

LEO job is not protecting the citizen rights. Their job is to enforcing laws thus law enforcement. Now the question is LEO have obligation to enforce any unconstitutional laws?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-01-2014, 9:53 AM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 4,049
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teg33 View Post
LEO job is not protecting the citizen rights. Their job is to enforcing laws thus law enforcement. Now the question is LEO have obligation to enforce any unconstitutional laws?
Teg,

You're back at the start of the "Chicken and Egg" thing.

Who gets to decide what law is "Unconstitutional"?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-01-2014, 10:15 AM
teg33 teg33 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,415
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Teg,

You're back at the start of the "Chicken and Egg" thing.

Who gets to decide what law is "Unconstitutional"?
The one that can decide is SCOTUS. Throughout US history, there were plenty laws that SCOTUS decided were unconstitutional.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-01-2014, 10:21 AM
Bert Gamble's Avatar
Bert Gamble Bert Gamble is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Willits, PRK and Soyo, Angola
Posts: 2,657
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Since this isn't the LEO forum, can people say things to them that would get them banned in the LEO forum, or are the protected here as well?
__________________
WARNING: This post will most likely contain statements that are offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense, and or maturity.

Satire: A literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.
_____________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-01-2014, 10:41 AM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 4,049
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teg33 View Post
The one that can decide is SCOTUS. Throughout US history, there were plenty laws that SCOTUS decided were unconstitutional.
Teg,

Both an excellent answer, and an excellent observation.

I was fearing that you'd come back with some version of "I get to decide. My judgement is so much better than everyone else's."
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-03-2014, 3:42 AM
kermit315's Avatar
kermit315 kermit315 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where the truth is valued
Posts: 5,922
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Gamble View Post
Since this isn't the LEO forum, can people say things to them that would get them banned in the LEO forum, or are the protected here as well?
If you are going to post subjective, bashing drivel, my guess would be that you will still get your pee pee smacked, even in here, especially if you are not LEO or MIL.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by leok20 View Post
To me Law Enforcement are guilty until proven innocent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrage View Post
Over reaction to non-crimes by State loyalists. If they keep up their heavy handed crap, soon it'll be a better gamble to shoot at cops before they even start bothering you considering the amount of time they're willing to put you in prison for if you cooperate.

Seems like that pendulum is about to shift.
Is this your Calguns?

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-03-2014, 4:02 AM
jarhead714 jarhead714 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: O.C.
Posts: 2,774
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teg33 View Post
The one that can decide is SCOTUS. Throughout US history, there were plenty laws that SCOTUS decided were unconstitutional.
Right, but SCOTUS decided that SCOTUS would be the one to make that judgement. Seven appointed people to judge them all.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-03-2014, 1:08 PM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 4,049
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Jarhead,

You're mistaken on this one. The Supreme Court didn't decide who the decision makers would be. The decision making positions were determined by the founding fathers and were defined in the Constitution. The folks sitting on the court are appointed by by a single person (the president, who was elected to make those decisions) and confirmed by the Senate. That's 101 folks participating in the selection.

That sure beats having one self-appointed yahoo deciding.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-03-2014, 1:47 PM
NokSuCow NokSuCow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 259
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I have nothing to contribute to this thread.

I just wanted to say this. RickD, you are awesome my friend. I wish all LEO had your attitude and knowledge.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-03-2014, 1:49 PM
POLICESTATE's Avatar
POLICESTATE POLICESTATE is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sunnyvale, PRK
Posts: 17,870
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by radgokart View Post
LEOs aren't to blame for the laws politicians make. I get the spirit of the question, just wanted to put in my two cents.
Tell that to Sophie Scholl.
__________________
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.


Government Official Lies
. F r e e d o m . D i e s .
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-03-2014, 6:21 PM
fizux's Avatar
fizux fizux is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,541
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teg33 View Post
The one that can decide is SCOTUS. Throughout US history, there were plenty laws that SCOTUS decided were unconstitutional.
Something like 0.53%* of laws have fallen since WWII. Not good prospects.

* not sure of the exact number, but that is close -- Clark Neily @ The Institution of Justice just wrote a book on it, and had been studying commerce clause abuse for decades. I should have paid better attention in his MCLE class two weeks ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead714 View Post
Right, but SCOTUS decided that SCOTUS would be the one to make that judgement. Seven appointed people to judge them all.
Sesame Street says this is sponsored by the number Nine.*

* I am sure of this number.
__________________
Nationwide Master List of Current 2A Cases, courtesy of Al Norris @ TFL.

Reloading Clubs: SF, East Bay

Case Status: Peña v. Cid (Handgun Roster). SF v. 44Mag (Mag Parts Kits). Bauer v. Harris (DROS Fees). Davis v. LA (CCW policy). Jackson v. SF (Ammo/Storage). Teixeira (FFL Zoning). First Unitarian v. NSA (Privacy). Silvester (Waiting Period). Schoepf (DROS Delay). Haynie (AW ban). SFVPOA v. SF (10+ mag possession ban). Bear in Public: Drake (3CA); Moore (7CA); Richards, Peruta, McKay (9CA).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:52 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.