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View Poll Results: Would you prefer the KTo frames in steel, aluminum, or either one
Steel 85 45.70%
Aluminum 59 31.72%
Either one is fine 42 22.58%
Voters: 186. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 04-07-2012, 10:38 AM
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Very tempted, but all these gun projects are giving my accountant a heart attack. Not to mention I'm running out of room to store up "kit's in progress". I'll have to pass on this one, but look forward to seeing people build them!
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  #42  
Old 04-07-2012, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ChuckD View Post
Very tempted, but all these gun projects are giving my accountant a heart attack. Not to mention I'm running out of room to store up "kit's in progress". I'll have to pass on this one, but look forward to seeing people build them!
It's easy, really. A metal shelf for the kits (and look on the bright side - handgun parts don't take as much space as the rifle ones, or the likes of M1919), and as for the accountant, he's supposed to count what's left of your money, not tell you how to spend it. Unless it's a she... then enjoy it while you can
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  #43  
Old 04-07-2012, 11:05 AM
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what needs to be done to finish the frame... i was hesitant to take on the 1911 with all the minor fitting issues, but if this is easier i'd be interested in it.
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  #44  
Old 04-07-2012, 6:01 PM
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Can he make them with a rail???
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  #45  
Old 04-07-2012, 6:44 PM
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Can he make them with a rail???
haven't asked but since he is basically starting from scratch it's worth a shot
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  #46  
Old 04-07-2012, 8:57 PM
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If we can agree on steel 229 style railed or non railed I can firm my 1 maybe 2 up to a hard 2.
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  #47  
Old 04-07-2012, 9:02 PM
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here is a slide and barrel kit for the 229 40 s&w. looks like they have other cal kits to



http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=280606680


will it work with this frame?
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  #48  
Old 04-08-2012, 1:50 AM
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im in. pm me when this is ready for payment
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  #49  
Old 04-08-2012, 2:18 AM
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Originally Posted by arsilva32 View Post
here is a slide and barrel kit for the 229 40 s&w. looks like they have other cal kits to



http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=280606680


will it work with this frame?
It should. I'll know that in a month or so, when I get my other frame and try it on with a P229 slide.
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Quote:
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Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


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  #50  
Old 04-10-2012, 2:10 PM
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yeah.. just read the rest of this thread, and found the answer to my question... anyways im interested in one. especially if i could do this with someone else to see how they fit the parts.
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  #51  
Old 04-10-2012, 3:53 PM
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I can commit to at least 1.
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  #52  
Old 04-10-2012, 8:11 PM
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Im down for 1 eventhough I have many projects started!



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  #53  
Old 04-10-2012, 8:30 PM
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im thinking i'd want to change my vote from aluminum to steel
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  #54  
Old 04-12-2012, 2:27 AM
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Guaranteed for one, will let friends and family know about this and update a final tally by this weekend.
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  #55  
Old 04-12-2012, 12:52 PM
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I would be in for a 226 railed frame
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  #56  
Old 04-12-2012, 2:51 PM
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Are these done in two pieces and brazed together like the 1911 frames?
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  #57  
Old 04-12-2012, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptoguy2002 View Post
Are these done in two pieces and brazed together like the 1911 frames?
I think so. The old ones were dona like that, and he submitted one of the old frames to ATF for approval. I doubt he'll change his MO.
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Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


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  #58  
Old 04-12-2012, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamAnderson View Post
I would be in for a 226 railed frame
According to the KTO guy, his frames would work to build a SIG P228, P229, or P226. However, he advertizes them as P228 frames, and I haven't heard of anyone building a P226 on them. As for the rail, he will be asked about it, but the old frames were without the rail.

Just making sure the expectations are set properly.
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"Thou shalt not interfere with the Second Amendment rights of "law-abiding" citizens who want AK-47s only to protect hearth and home." - Paul Helmke finally gets it :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


WTB: Saiga .223 bolt; HK G3 bolt; Chinese AK pistol grips; milled AK cut receiver pieces and stubs.
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  #59  
Old 04-12-2012, 3:14 PM
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I can't see spending much over $95 on an 80% anything.
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  #60  
Old 04-12-2012, 3:48 PM
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Quote:
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I can't see spending much over $95 on an 80% anything.
Then you probably won't like these frames, or any handgun frames these days
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Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


WTB: Saiga .223 bolt; HK G3 bolt; Chinese AK pistol grips; milled AK cut receiver pieces and stubs.
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  #61  
Old 04-13-2012, 10:17 PM
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I can't see spending much over $95 on an 80% anything.
LOL, about the only 80% anything you will find for that price is an AR lower.

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  #62  
Old 04-14-2012, 3:54 PM
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So what's the strategy for getting a full parts kit to complete the build? Would we have to gather parts bit by bit?
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  #63  
Old 04-14-2012, 7:08 PM
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Count me in for one
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  #64  
Old 04-15-2012, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Cali-V View Post
So what's the strategy for getting a full parts kit to complete the build? Would we have to gather parts bit by bit?
Pretty much, you have to gather the parts. It realy depends on what you intend to build.

If you want to build a P229, you can use the SIG P229 conversion kits (available in 9mm, .40, .357 SIG, and .22lr) for the upper. The frame parts for P229 are still manufactured and sold.

I'm sure something similar can be done for P226, provided KTO's claims that you can use this frame to build a P226 are correct.

If you want to build a P228, like I do, you'll have to gather your patience. The parts are still out there, and occasionally there's a complete or semi-complete parts kit on Gunbroker. All the springs are still produced, and Wolff makes them, as well. Other than that, you just need to gather the parts one-by-one. Keep in mind that many of the parts are interchangeable between P228 and P229.

It took me about 3 months of searching to find most of the parts for a P228 and a P229 in .40. Still looking for the breech block for P228 (in P229 it's a part of the slide), and I still haven't bought the second set of sights, although those are readily available, I'm just being cheap.
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"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
"Thou shalt not interfere with the Second Amendment rights of "law-abiding" citizens who want AK-47s only to protect hearth and home." - Paul Helmke finally gets it :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


WTB: Saiga .223 bolt; HK G3 bolt; Chinese AK pistol grips; milled AK cut receiver pieces and stubs.
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  #65  
Old 04-15-2012, 2:40 PM
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Default Making at KT 228/229 build

Hi

I am new here in fact I joined to assist you all, I along with others made these kt frames into working pistols in the 2000-2004 era, I have made about 5 complete working pistols.
I should note I am the only one to build a 40 cal that I know of
these builds where done on the "homebuilders site" also known as Roderus, the site was free then, I believe to look into the achives you need to be a paid member (I could be wrong)
there where two frame makers then
KT in vermont (then) he had steel and alum frames, dlask in canada only had steel frames both 80% frames. These frames involved doing the rails, drilling the holes and opening up the mag well and the interior. only one company sold parts and that was dlask, they were inferior compared to sig parts. I owned two sets of these parts, from then on I started buying police demilled sig factory pistols. Since 226, 228,229 & 225 used the same intermnals ( except barrel, slide, block, mags.) these are interchangeable.
I started buying sig only parts from other members on sig forum. KT & Dlask sold the blueprints, I have a set these also call out the drill bits you need. once you have done one build, they are fairly easy after that, the alum frames need to be anodized!!!!!
ok
questions on the P-226 build it has been done, but is VERY difficult, this is only for the advanaced builder, thats me and I will not do it. I know how to do it, it just takes to much work to do, plus the slide hangs out a bit

the big issue for the different models here is the block in the frame, I call it the locking block, each one is made for a specific calibers a 40 cal block can be used for a 9mm, but not reverse and 226 block can not be used at all, except with a 226 barrel. Top gun has these they start at $150 last I looked.

9mm are fairly easy and if you are just starting out you should go that route, I did mine with hand tools, IE: Hand drill, drill press, hand files, dremel, yep you can cheat and use a bridgeport.

40 cal has the same frame as the 228 except the mag well needs to be opened more, this could be a problem with a alum frame I did mine with a steel frame to take the shock. the 40 cal mag is a bit wider, but you can used a 9mm 228/229 mags, 40 cal rounds feed out of them, only you lose one or two rounds.
real sig 228/229 grips are hard to come by right now also

word to the wise and if you avoid this advice you could get seriously hurt
DO NOT USE A 228 SHEETMETAL SLIDE WITH A P-229 40 CAL BARREL, use a 40 cal steel slide and 40 cal/357 sig barrel
yes 357 is also a option

feel free to pick my brain, I might get a alum frame I need to dwell on it as I have a spare sig kit (not for sale)
if you can not reach me with questions here, feel free to contact me at captainjack692@aol.com
on homebuilders ( Roderus) I am capt jack, there is one particular thread that is 36 pages long its a tutorial of sorts, its very informative plus others like my 40 cal build

Jack
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  #66  
Old 04-15-2012, 3:17 PM
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hey sprat glad you joined the forum here! hopefully we get enough interest for the gb so i can pick your brain for info
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  #67  
Old 04-15-2012, 5:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprat View Post
Hi

I am new here in fact I joined to assist you all, I along with others made these kt frames into working pistols in the 2000-2004 era, I have made about 5 complete working pistols.
I should note I am the only one to build a 40 cal that I know of
these builds where done on the "homebuilders site" also known as Roderus, the site was free then, I believe to look into the achives you need to be a paid member (I could be wrong)
there where two frame makers then
KT in vermont (then) he had steel and alum frames, dlask in canada only had steel frames both 80% frames. These frames involved doing the rails, drilling the holes and opening up the mag well and the interior. only one company sold parts and that was dlask, they were inferior compared to sig parts. I owned two sets of these parts, from then on I started buying police demilled sig factory pistols. Since 226, 228,229 & 225 used the same intermnals ( except barrel, slide, block, mags.) these are interchangeable.
I started buying sig only parts from other members on sig forum. KT & Dlask sold the blueprints, I have a set these also call out the drill bits you need. once you have done one build, they are fairly easy after that, the alum frames need to be anodized!!!!!
ok
questions on the P-226 build it has been done, but is VERY difficult, this is only for the advanaced builder, thats me and I will not do it. I know how to do it, it just takes to much work to do, plus the slide hangs out a bit

the big issue for the different models here is the block in the frame, I call it the locking block, each one is made for a specific calibers a 40 cal block can be used for a 9mm, but not reverse and 226 block can not be used at all, except with a 226 barrel. Top gun has these they start at $150 last I looked.

9mm are fairly easy and if you are just starting out you should go that route, I did mine with hand tools, IE: Hand drill, drill press, hand files, dremel, yep you can cheat and use a bridgeport.

40 cal has the same frame as the 228 except the mag well needs to be opened more, this could be a problem with a alum frame I did mine with a steel frame to take the shock. the 40 cal mag is a bit wider, but you can used a 9mm 228/229 mags, 40 cal rounds feed out of them, only you lose one or two rounds.
real sig 228/229 grips are hard to come by right now also

word to the wise and if you avoid this advice you could get seriously hurt
DO NOT USE A 228 SHEETMETAL SLIDE WITH A P-229 40 CAL BARREL, use a 40 cal steel slide and 40 cal/357 sig barrel
yes 357 is also a option

feel free to pick my brain, I might get a alum frame I need to dwell on it as I have a spare sig kit (not for sale)
if you can not reach me with questions here, feel free to contact me at captainjack692@aol.com
on homebuilders ( Roderus) I am capt jack, there is one particular thread that is 36 pages long its a tutorial of sorts, its very informative plus others like my 40 cal build

Jack
Thanks for the info, Jack! You can be sure that your brain will be picked quite a bit, whether this GB becomes reality or not. I have two steel frames, one KTO, and one Dlask, and some members here have some of those frames, as well.

I have a few questions already.

Would you rather build a .40 P229 on a KTO, or Dlask steel frame? Does it matter at all?

For the locking block, how can you tell a 9mm P228 one from a 9mm P229 one (if there's a difference) from a .40 P229 one, from a P226 one? I have a couple of locking blocks, which I think are P228 ones, but I'm not sure of that.

Is there any way to get ahold of that 36-pages tutorial? What about the blueprints, can we have a copy or two?


Thanks,


Nick
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"Thou shalt not interfere with the Second Amendment rights of "law-abiding" citizens who want AK-47s only to protect hearth and home." - Paul Helmke finally gets it :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


WTB: Saiga .223 bolt; HK G3 bolt; Chinese AK pistol grips; milled AK cut receiver pieces and stubs.
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  #68  
Old 04-15-2012, 5:39 PM
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great to see you here Jack!
thanks so much for dropping in and offering to help folks with this build, i was secretly hoping that some of the guys that were in on the original Sig building frenzy might still be willing to help with a new wave of builds... and there you are!
i'm a lifetime member over at Homegunsmith/Roderus... so i'm familiar with the references and resources you mentioned. i'll be sure to check them out... and if you still have them, lots of folks here that are not members over there would benefit greatly if you posted them here as well.
once again, thanks for sharing your experience & expertise!
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Last edited by goober; 04-16-2012 at 2:26 PM.. Reason: dang typos
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  #69  
Old 04-16-2012, 11:22 AM
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thanks for the warm welcome to a florida guy, heck iits warm in so cali too

locking blocks I have seen where marked, inside I don't know if 228 or 229 9mm blocks are different if they are 9mm they should be the same, I just remember the 9mm 226 and 228 were different and the 40 cal was also different animal.
I have a print out of the 36 page tutorial but not in the computer and I am not a member their anymore, I sorta done building sorts kinda!!
I do have blueprints but again not in the computer, what I would do, would be to mail them to someone here if they promised to scan and give them out to everyone for free
since goober is a member at roderus, I believe there is a set in the blueprint library

if I were to do a 40cal build either steel frame works, again I used steel because of the strength, don't forget to pick up a 357 sig barrel

Jack
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:31 AM
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found this in a google search for a p228 80% guide

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_14/48...d_1_29_08.html
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  #71  
Old 04-16-2012, 6:19 PM
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  #72  
Old 04-17-2012, 6:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprat View Post
thanks for the warm welcome to a florida guy, heck iits warm in so cali too

locking blocks I have seen where marked, inside I don't know if 228 or 229 9mm blocks are different if they are 9mm they should be the same, I just remember the 9mm 226 and 228 were different and the 40 cal was also different animal.
I have a print out of the 36 page tutorial but not in the computer and I am not a member their anymore, I sorta done building sorts kinda!!
I do have blueprints but again not in the computer, what I would do, would be to mail them to someone here if they promised to scan and give them out to everyone for free
since goober is a member at roderus, I believe there is a set in the blueprint library

if I were to do a 40cal build either steel frame works, again I used steel because of the strength, don't forget to pick up a 357 sig barrel

Jack
I can scan the blueprints and post them here.

You're done building? How did you manage to pull that off? Please, do share, it could benefit quite a few members here, myself included
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"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
"Thou shalt not interfere with the Second Amendment rights of "law-abiding" citizens who want AK-47s only to protect hearth and home." - Paul Helmke finally gets it :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


WTB: Saiga .223 bolt; HK G3 bolt; Chinese AK pistol grips; milled AK cut receiver pieces and stubs.
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  #73  
Old 04-17-2012, 6:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jingerale View Post
found this in a google search for a p228 80% guide

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_14/48...d_1_29_08.html
Thank you.
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  #74  
Old 04-17-2012, 8:55 PM
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Update from KTO:
Sample frame has not yet been sent to BATFE. He's still looking for it
Aluminum frames will be 6061 not 7075 as they need to be brazed
We can get a rail added at no cost (but will likely have to go with all or none)
Just in case anyone is wondering after seeing pix of old KTO Sig frames, no, there will NOT be a finger groove in the grip.
I'll let you know when I have new info.
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  #75  
Old 04-18-2012, 1:58 PM
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Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster.
I'll be down for 5-6 frames, possibly even more if I can get a few more friends excited. Should have more of a firm answer in the coming weeks.

As far as Alum Vs. Steel I'm kind of split... I like the reduced weight, ease of machining, and rust resistance of alum, so I initially wanted that... but if there is ANY question of it's durability, ie: if it won't last near a lifetime, then I would want to go with steel. Maybe you guy's know if an Alum 6061 frame would be acceptably durable?

As far as a rail I would STRONGLY prefer a railed frame. This is kind of a big deal for me, but I would still go along with a non-railed frame.

I am located in the Bay Area, and if anyone else around the bay wanted to connect so we could help each other out on getting these things machined, fitted, finding parts, etc. that would be great!

Another question I had is whether or not KTO was planning on selling these frames after this GB or if this is basically our one and only chance. Also I was wondering if KTO was planning on ever having a jig for these frames? If so, I would definitely be down for one of those as well.

Thanks again for organizing this GB!!!
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Old 04-18-2012, 7:05 PM
jingerale jingerale is offline
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have you guys seen any guides or walkthrough for completing this 80%?

I found a solid model on GrabCad, assuming this is a completed frame, I can't really tell what features still needs to be done. The slide rail for sure, but what else? A guide would be great.

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Old 04-18-2012, 9:09 PM
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Want to update, I am a firm OK for two frames. Railed and steel preferred.
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Old 04-20-2012, 9:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogskins View Post
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster.
I'll be down for 5-6 frames, possibly even more if I can get a few more friends excited. Should have more of a firm answer in the coming weeks.

As far as Alum Vs. Steel I'm kind of split... I like the reduced weight, ease of machining, and rust resistance of alum, so I initially wanted that... but if there is ANY question of it's durability, ie: if it won't last near a lifetime, then I would want to go with steel. Maybe you guy's know if an Alum 6061 frame would be acceptably durable?

As far as a rail I would STRONGLY prefer a railed frame. This is kind of a big deal for me, but I would still go along with a non-railed frame.

I am located in the Bay Area, and if anyone else around the bay wanted to connect so we could help each other out on getting these things machined, fitted, finding parts, etc. that would be great!

Another question I had is whether or not KTO was planning on selling these frames after this GB or if this is basically our one and only chance. Also I was wondering if KTO was planning on ever having a jig for these frames? If so, I would definitely be down for one of those as well.

Thanks again for organizing this GB!!!
Personally, I would not worry about the durability of 6061. I'm in the Bay Area too, would be happy to get together with other bay area calguners to work on this.

As far as jigs, I don't know if it is even required. Although I don't have any time behind a real mill, I design jigs and fixtures all day. Then again, kinda hard to do without knowing even the basics steps required to finish this frame. I looked at the prints I found on Ar15.com, I can't even make out some of the dimensions on it. Some higher res. prints would be nice.

edit: I'm down to committing to 2 frames. Planning on "his" 'and "hers" P229s.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:32 AM
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Default MAJOR NEW DEVELOPMENT IN KTO SIG FRAME DESIGN

Hey folks-
I just got work from Rick at KTO regarding the fact that he has sent a sample frame to BATFE for approval, so that's good.
He had some other news, that may be good or bad depending on what your preferences & plans for this group buy are:

1) He is going to make the 80% frames in one piece. No brazing. The mag well will be wire EDM cut.
2) The frames may not be as easily adapted to P226 use, but should be fine for P228 or P229 builds.
3) The steel option is out. He will make these in aluminum only, either 6061 or 7075, our choice. But we all must get the same material.
4) 6061 will be $250 as quoted. Due to the higher cost of the material and the fact that he has to buy it wider than needed, 7075 will be $300.
5) Rick says he "likes 7075".

Not sure what this news does to our GB membership & buy-in, but everyone needs to be aware of changes to the overall terms until they are finalized.
More when I know it.
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  #80  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:01 AM
cmartin72 cmartin72 is offline
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If we are stuck with aluminum, I personally would prefer the 6061 just from a cost savings stand point. I will buy either way. What about a rail? Dont know about others opinions, but I definitely prefer a rail.
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