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  #1  
Old 02-21-2016, 11:29 PM
ifilef ifilef is offline
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Default Can one lap rings first without scope available?

Hello-

Rifle is a Marlin 60 and my new (and recommended) scope base and rings is: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o04_s00 .

It appears the rings are permanently attached to the mounting platform and can not be moved distance-wise from each other.

1) So, I was wondering to break up the process if I can do the lapping now and without my scope as it's out for repair.

2) I was thinking of first checking alignment using the alignment cylinders. If they line up perfectly from the get-go with torques at spec, should I lap rings anyway, and if so, why? Will it make any difference for accuracy purposes?

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by ifilef; 02-21-2016 at 11:34 PM..
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  #2  
Old 02-22-2016, 12:26 AM
Twystd1 Twystd1 is offline
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Having the scope in your hands before lapping will get you nothing.
As the lapping bars will create the straightness (alignment) desired.

In the link you provided, you will see that there are little pads on the INSIDE of those 1 inch scope rings. These will cushion the scope a bit and take up most small irregularities in the scope alignment.

To be honest. I wouldn't lap those rings. As you will have to remove the glued in pads to do so. Then reinstall them if the the rings have too large of a ID and the pads are required for fitment.

Why don't you try the scope and rings as is. If you find your sighting system has problems or the alignment bars are out of whack. Then lap the rings.

I have installed MANY scopes and lapped many rings with the Wheeler kit and the Clark Customs kit.

I wouldn't lap those rings unless absolutely necessary.

-T

Last edited by Twystd1; 02-22-2016 at 10:06 PM..
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  #3  
Old 02-22-2016, 12:37 AM
ifilef ifilef is offline
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Twystd1- Your comments are well-taken. Also impressed that you actually noticed those inner pads- I became aware of them through inspection of the rings before I posted the thread but never thought of the issue they might present. Perhaps they were designed that way to assist alignment and protect the scope body from scratches.

Just ordered that Wheeler Scope Mounting kit the other day and will use the lapping part of it for another scope mounting on a AR-15. But part of the reason I purchased the kit was to assist the accuracy of the Marlin for anticipated Appleseed, and also thought it would be a fun part of the hobby to be able to do it myself.

Thanks, you saved me a lot of time and likely aggravation! I will not lap the rings at this time, if at all.

Can you answer question #2 for me?

Last edited by ifilef; 02-22-2016 at 1:18 AM..
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  #4  
Old 02-22-2016, 1:40 AM
pacrat pacrat is online now
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Not asked oF me, but my 2c on QUESTION #2

Quote:
2) I was thinking of first checking alignment using the alignment cylinders. If they line up perfectly from the get-go with torques at spec, should I lap rings anyway, and if so, why? Will it make any difference for accuracy purposes?
Lapping rings IMO should be done anyway. Because it is the right way to do it. Reasoning........even if the two pointy little ends, that you should ...not use... line up. That does not mean that the two sets of rings are in alignment. Or that they are not inducing stress to the scope tube.

[example] If the rear ring points upward slightly at front. And frnt ring points downward slightly at front. The two little points that you ...should not use... can and will, still line up between the rings. Same if you go to the horizontal plane. Either way, off is off, but the points won't show you they are off. If they are off a like amount. But the result is still a scope tube that is trying to be bent by the stresses induced.

If you want to know if the rings are in proper alignment. Ignore the pointy ends. Turn the alignment bars around and used the flat ends opposing each other. To meet in the middle. If the flat ends, sit flat against each other, and flush around the circumference at the joint. You have proper alignment.

Even when the bars align flat and flush. That does not assure proper concentric contact between the rings and tube. Lapping greatly increases contact for proper tube support and "gripability". Just made up new word.

Years before anyone sold a "lapping kit". I made my own. Just like all the old timers did. The two short alignment bars are faced off flat on both ends, so I can't get confused. And the long lapping bar, doesn't have that stupid handle sticking out the side. [Like a dog taking a whiz.] When I made it, I chucked it up in a lathe and D&Td one end for a 3/8" bolt. Screwed a bolt into it with Loc-Tite. Then cut the head off the bolt. Then trued the bolt stub to have a concentric axis with the body of the lapping bar. Using a variable speed drill, the actual lapping operation takes just a few minutes.

JM2c
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  #5  
Old 02-22-2016, 1:58 AM
ifilef ifilef is offline
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pacrat-

Thanks for your detailed, somewhat amusing and informative post. It's all beyond my skill set, though. I'm no gunsmith, the closest I've come to doing anything like what they do is a trigger job on a S&W revolver and reassembling a Ruger MK II (field strip only). I can't even do a detail strip on a Beretta 92 slide nor want to do an AR-15 build. And machining and stuff like that- I should've at least taken metal shop more seriously. I'm seriously envious of you- not joking.

Anyway, I'm not sure if you're advocating doing lapping jobs on all ring sets including the particular one that has those soft inside pads referred to in post #1, but I do intend to do the lapping thing on rings that have metal interiors, and when I do, will check out reversing the ends of the alignment bars as you have suggested.

But I'll have to pass on the lathe, D&T, cutting the head off a bolt. I can do the Loc-Tite thing, though.

Cheers,

Last edited by ifilef; 02-22-2016 at 2:02 AM..
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  #6  
Old 02-22-2016, 11:42 AM
pistolmania pistolmania is offline
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Wouldn't you want the scope to figure out how far apart to mount the rings and how far forward to mount the rings to the rail (for proper eye relief)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifilef View Post
Hello-

Rifle is a Marlin 60 and my new (and recommended) scope base and rings is: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o04_s00 .

It appears the rings are permanently attached to the mounting platform and can not be moved distance-wise from each other.

1) So, I was wondering to break up the process if I can do the lapping now and without my scope as it's out for repair.

2) I was thinking of first checking alignment using the alignment cylinders. If they line up perfectly from the get-go with torques at spec, should I lap rings anyway, and if so, why? Will it make any difference for accuracy purposes?

Thanks in advance.
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  #7  
Old 02-22-2016, 12:03 PM
ifilef ifilef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pistolmania View Post
Wouldn't you want the scope to figure out how far apart to mount the rings and how far forward to mount the rings to the rail (for proper eye relief)?
Check the link.
In the particular mount the rings are a set distance apart from each other and can't be moved.
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2016, 12:12 PM
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CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
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Twystd1 already answered the question.

My 2 cents worth:
Lapping can be a very good thing to do but, excessive lapping will ruin the rings. So, be careful.
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  #9  
Old 02-22-2016, 5:33 PM
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I use Thompson shaft as an Alignment bar 12" piece 1" diameter on size to .0002" straight to within .001" over 12" cumulative

if that bar will not just drop in then they need to be lapped.

I make my own laps too. mild steel with grooves long enough to not need a handle.

Haven't played with enough 30, 34, or 36 mm scopes so haven't added those bars yet but they are a mouse click away.
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  #10  
Old 02-22-2016, 10:11 PM
Twystd1 Twystd1 is offline
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ifilef,

Since your in N. San D county.

Drive up to my shop in Newport Beach and use my scope mounting tools.

I have EVERYthing you need to do it right. And high end torque drivers and on and on......... And then some.

Payment is ............................................._____---------->>>>>

Your buying the coffee.

-T
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  #11  
Old 02-22-2016, 10:57 PM
ifilef ifilef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twystd1 View Post
ifilef,

Since your in N. San D county.

Drive up to my shop in Newport Beach and use my scope mounting tools.

I have EVERYthing you need to do it right. And high end torque drivers and on and on......... And then some.

Payment is ............................................._____---------->>>>>

Your buying the coffee.

-T
Twystd1-

Very kind offer but you are too far away and I have transmission problems. Also received the Wheeler Professional Scope Mounting Kit Combo today from Amazon, should be adequate though your equipment exceeds it.

Last edited by ifilef; 02-22-2016 at 11:02 PM..
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