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  #1  
Old 04-03-2012, 9:28 AM
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Default CA Resident on military orders to KS, Can intrafamiliar transfer a handgun?

Hi folks, I searched for this question and while some of the answers I found were close they didn't quite get to my question.

Here is the situation.

Grandson is a California Resident who is serving in the Army stationed in Kansas.

Grandson purchased a 9mm handgun in Kansas on base in Kansas.

Grandson wants to give the 9mm to Grandfather who is a California Resident residing in California.

Questions:

Can the Grandson bring a 9mm handgun into CA and give it to his Grandfather?

Does he just need to fill out the DOJ Intrafamiliar Form and pay the $19.00?

Is there a difference if it is on or off the CA DOJ Roster?

With the Intrafamiliar Form no FFL is required correct?

Thank you.

+
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  #2  
Old 04-03-2012, 9:36 AM
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those in the know will be along shortly but I think you are good to go. as it is not from a sister/brother/cousin/uncle/aunt
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  #3  
Old 04-03-2012, 9:46 AM
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I'd also say yes. Grandson came to legally possess the handgun. Grandson to grandfather falls within a legally defined intrafamilia transfer and is exempt from the PPT and roster restrictions. And as you've defined it, grandson will bring the into CA; note he cannot ship it interstate directly to you. Only detail is that you, the receiver, submits the transfer form, not him.

Questions:

Can the Grandson bring a 9mm handgun into CA and give it to his Grandfather?
Yes; however, if it is shipped interstate, it must go to a FFL who must then submit a DROS

Does he just need to fill out the DOJ Intrafamiliar Form and pay the $19.00?
No, you do.

Is there a difference if it is on or off the CA DOJ Roster?
No, intrafamilia transfer is exempt from the roster.

With the Intrafamiliar Form no FFL is required correct?
Yes, intrafamilia transfer is exempt from PPT requirements and since both parties are residents of the same state, federal requirements do not come into play

Last edited by dachan; 04-03-2012 at 10:13 AM..
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  #4  
Old 04-03-2012, 10:03 AM
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Thank you very much. Also. I am the Son and Uncle in the above scenario. I just knew where to come to for the right information.

I wish it worked for Nephew to Uncle, I'd have him pick me up a CZ-75 in Stainless... =]
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  #5  
Old 04-03-2012, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rplusplus View Post
I wish it worked for Nephew to Uncle, I'd have him pick me up a CZ-75 in Stainless... =]
Talk you dad into asking for a SS CZ-75 from his favorite grandson to try out. He might not like it (unlikely) and decide to give it to you.
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  #6  
Old 04-03-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rplusplus View Post
Hi folks, I searched for this question and while some of the answers I found were close they didn't quite get to my question.

Here is the situation.

Grandson is a California Resident who is serving in the Army stationed in Kansas.

Grandson purchased a 9mm handgun in Kansas on base in Kansas.

Grandson wants to give the 9mm to Grandfather who is a California Resident residing in California.

Questions:

Can the Grandson bring a 9mm handgun into CA and give it to his Grandfather?

Does he just need to fill out the DOJ Intrafamiliar Form and pay the $19.00?

Is there a difference if it is on or off the CA DOJ Roster?

With the Intrafamiliar Form no FFL is required correct?

Thank you.

+
No, that doesn't work.

I'm sure California is fine with it, but Feds are not.

.mil PCS to KS means grandson, for gun purchasing/transfer purposes, is a citizen of KS. (We know that's true - he bought a gun in KS and passed NICS.)

That makes the transfer KS grandson -> CA grandfather, so it's interstate, and Federal law applies; that requires transfer through a CA-FFL and all the usual CA-FFL things.

See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki articles on

Intrafamilial transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...Family_Members

Interstate transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...rms_Interstate

Often, on seeing this problem, someone will lament the insanity of it all, and ask 'Who is going to know?'. The participants will, of course; and if BATFE happens to need a slam-dunk conviction for a Federal felony, this kind of thing is easy for them.
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  #7  
Old 04-03-2012, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
.mil PCS to KS means grandson, for gun purchasing/transfer purposes, is a citizen of KS. (We know that's true - he bought a gun in KS and passed NICS.)
Doesn't mil PCS to KS allow the grandson to retain residency in CA as well as KS?

921b of the GCA provides that a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located (thus allowing the grandson to purchase the firearm in KS), but it doesn't require anyone to give up his or her home residency. Therefore, the question is whether upon returning to CA on leave, the ATF and DOJ recognizes the grandson re-establishing residency in CA. It seems implausible that after retaining his CADL and paying state taxes, the only dual residency right lost to active military is the ability to purchase a firearm in his or her home state. For example, if the grandson were to walk into any store while in CA, he would probably have no problem presenting his CADL to purchase a long gun, and with military ID or HSC and proper proof of address (say he kept his vehicle registration in CA) be also able to purchase a handgun. Again, why would 921(b) make a member of the Armed Forces a resident only of State of his PCS when transfering firearms but allow him or her dual residency for everything else? It seems much more likely that the intent of 921(b) is to allow active military to purchase firearms in the state of their PCS, but not restrict them only to that state.

Last edited by dachan; 04-03-2012 at 2:27 PM..
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  #8  
Old 04-03-2012, 2:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dachan View Post
Doesn't mil PCS to KS allow the grandson to retain residency in CA as well as KS?

921b of the GCA provides that a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located (thus allowing the grandson to purchase the firearm in KS), but it doesn't require anyone to give up his or her home residency. Therefore, the question is whether upon returning to CA on leave, the ATF and DOJ recognizes the grandson re-establishing residency in CA. It seems implausible that after retaining his CADL and paying state taxes, the only dual residency right lost to active military is the ability to purchase a firearm in his or her home state. For example, if the grandson were to walk into any store while in CA, he would probably have no problem presenting his CADL to purchase a long gun, and with military ID or HSC and proper proof of address (say he kept his vehicle registration in CA) be also able to purchase a handgun. Again, why would 921(b) make a member of the Armed Forces a resident only of State of his PCS but allow him or her dual residency for everything else?
I think the summary must be 'this is the BATFE we're talking about.'

See the wiki article on residency -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Fe...y_requirements, especially
Quote:
That is, with military ID and PCS orders to a state, for gun purposes the servicemember is a citizen of the state where he/she is stationed.

However, the cost is that the servicemember is NOT allowed to buy guns in any other state than his/her PCS location, except in special circumstances.
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  #9  
Old 04-03-2012, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
However, the cost is that the servicemember is NOT allowed to buy guns in any other state than his/her PCS location, except in special circumstances
Does the above statement come from a ATF ruling/letter/FAQ/etc or an interpretation within the Calguns Wiki?

Are servicemembers forced to be residents of only their PCS location or can they re-establish residency like everyone else with multiple residency as presented in Ex 2 of 27 CFR 478.11 under State of Residence? Let's say a servicemember has a CADL, house, spouse and kids in CA, vehicle registered in CA and is stationed in KS. He/she comes home for 4wks, but cannot buy a firearm?

Again, it seems much more likely that the intent of 921(b) is to allow active military to purchase firearms in the state of their PCS, but not restrict them only to that state.

Last edited by dachan; 04-03-2012 at 3:10 PM..
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  #10  
Old 04-03-2012, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dachan View Post
Does the above statement come from a ATF ruling/letter/FAQ/etc or an interpretation within the Calguns Wiki?

Are servicemembers forced to be residents of only their PCS location or can they re-establish residency like everyone else with multiple residency as presented in Ex 2 of 27 CFR 478.11 under State of Residence? Let's say a servicemember has a CADL, house, spouse and kids in CA, vehicle registered in CA and is stationed in KS. He/she comes home for 4wks, but cannot buy a firearm?

Again, it seems much more likely that the intent of 921(b) is to allow active military to purchase firearms in the state of their PCS, but not restrict them only to that state.
As you would see if you actually followed the wiki link, it is from this document: http://www.atf.gov/publications/news...er-2004-08.pdf

For the rest of the questions you pose, you would need to ask BATF.

ETA: there are very few 'interpretations' at the wiki that are not clearly marked as such; almost everything cites appropriate authority - California or Federal law, court opinions.
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Last edited by Librarian; 04-03-2012 at 3:23 PM..
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  #11  
Old 04-03-2012, 8:37 PM
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It's all based on the GCA's general definition of "state of residence"

Quote:
The general definition of State of residence is the State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with an intention of making a home in the State.
There are many times when a service member will not have the intention of making a home in the state they are stationed in. I know many guys who have a house or residence in their home state and do not intend to stay in the state they're stationed in. You have to have the intention of making the state you're stationed in your home state. Ie. go register to vote, get a drivers license, etc. Your service record has what is referred to as a home of record (ie where you joined from) and your residence, ie where they calculate how much state income tax to withhold. You have to go to your personnel support detachment and actually update your service record if you want to change your state of residency.

If you go to most military bases, you will see out of state plates, out of state drivers licenses, etc. These are not people who intend on making a home in the state they're stationed in. Heck, even in California, you can register your car "military non resident". Cost was 46 bucks a year and I think it's around 60 now. Been there, played the non-resident game.

So now if you have a service member, stationed in oh, say California, but they have an Iowa drivers license, Iowa plates on their car, pay Iowa income taxes. According to the ATF, they have to use their PCS orders and military ID to buy a firearm in California. Since they have no intention of becoming a resident of California, both addresses must be listed on the 4473. With the Miltiary ID and PCS orders satisfying the residency requirements. Since they still maintain their residency in the state they're from, they're good to shop there too.

Military is kind of a special class. You can live in a state for years without establishing residency. Just because you took orders to a base in a state, does not make you a resident of that state. Changing residency is voluntary. You don't become a resident of a foreign country when you're stationed overseas, same with stateside.

To the OP, has your grandson established residency in KS? If he still maintains his CA DL, and intends on coming back to CA, then he's not a KS resident, he's a CA resident.

Last edited by markw; 04-03-2012 at 8:42 PM..
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  #12  
Old 04-03-2012, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw View Post
To the OP, has your grandson established residency in KS? If he still maintains his CA DL, and intends on coming back to CA, then he's not a KS resident, he's a CA resident.
That assertion is not consistent with the 2004 ATF letter nor with 27 CFR 478.11
Quote:
If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces,
the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her
permanent duty station is located.
I'd prefer it to be dual residency, PCS station and permanent home of record. Lord knows the military deserves some slack where it harms no one.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
That assertion is not consistent with the 2004 ATF letter nor with 27 CFR 478.11

I'd prefer it to be dual residency, PCS station and permanent home of record. Lord knows the military deserves some slack where it harms no one.
Most military wouldn't want dual, as that means paying taxes in both states.

Look at atf-ruling-2010-6.pdf

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2010-6.pdf

27 CFR 478.11:

A person’s “State of residence” is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 478.11 as “the State in
which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a
State with the intention of making a home in that State.”

The whole PCS + ID card is to allow a service member to purchase a firearm when they are stationed in a different state, it allows the FFL to treat them like a resident of that state. It does not remove the fact that they are not a resident of that state. Now if they had registered to vote, changed their DL then they had intention and therefore are now a resident of the state in which they are stationed and they give up the home state. What I saw a lot of in the navy is that guys would get stationed in WA, TX, or FL and the first thing they'd do would be to go and register to vote in that state to raise their paychecks because those states don't tax military pay. I was stationed in California from 1986 to 2006 with a brief insanity check to remind me why I left the midwest in Chicago from 93-96. The whole time I had a an out of state DL, and a couple of my cars were out of state plates, while the newer ones were military non-resident. That all changed when I retired, I had to get a CA DL, pay the full registration fees on my vehicles, and put CA plates on the older ones. Plus I had to register any handguns within 60 days.

So if you go home on leave and have your DL, and registration you can purchase a firearm in your home state because you satisfy 27 CFR 478.11. Since you have the intention of keeping that state as your state of residency. The OP was a CA resident who's CA resident grandson purchased a pistol while he was stationed in KS using his PCS orders and Military ID. He's still a CA resident, therefore it should be a grandson gives granddad the pistol next time he's home on leave, and it's a CA resident to CA resident intra familial transfer.

By the logic of "they are only a resident of the state that they are stationed in" if you get stationed overseas, you are now disenfranchised from buying a firearm for the duration of your pcs overseas since you no longer have a state of residence by that logic.

California like most other states doesn't consider you a resident until you are discharged, unless the service member voluntarily changes their residency. Congress has even gone out of their way to make sure you weren't a resident because California was going after military pensions in the 90's. "Oh, you were stationed here for 10 years, you owe us taxes on your retirement, even though you live in blah now..."

PC12001(o)(2)
(2) In the case of members of the Armed Forces of the United
States, residency shall be deemed to be established when he or she
was discharged from active service in this state.
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:27 PM
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The 2010 memo does not apply to military, so far as I can tell. The 2004 FFL newsletter quite clearly does.

Their interpretation is
Quote:
The Gun Control Act (GCA) provides that a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. However, the GCA’s general definition of State of residence may also apply to some active duty members. The general definition of State of residence is the State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with an intention of making a home in the State. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member is considered a resident of both the State in which his or her duty station is located and the State in which his or her home is maintained, and he or she may purchase a firearm in either State.
They do not address anything like the permanent home of record. (My dad used to use Illinois, up until he got stationed at McClellan in Sacramento.)

Is that an error by BATF? I don't know - but they don't think so. Before I relied on suspected error, I would hire an attorney and get a paid-for opinion.

Here's the difference in results:

IF intrafamilial works, cost is $19, an HSC if the receiver doesn't have one, and filing a form. IF it doesn't work, cost is the above plus the possibility of a Federal felony, possible 5 years in jail, but more likely $10,000 fine - to each participant.

IF one instead believes this is an interstate transfer, cost is a transfer fee, around $100, an HSC if the receiver doesn't have one, a 10-day wait, and possibly shipping to the CA-FFL if the servicemember doesn't bring the gun to CA himself.

Please feel free to assume whatever level of risk you like.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:47 PM
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Actually, the 2004 newsletter is addressing a separate problem, one which my father had when he was at Ft. Campbell. Specifically, Ft. Campbell KY is in Kentucky and Dad lived in Tennessee. What this newsletter is addressing is that in circumstances like my father's, the armed forces member is to be considered a resident of both of states.

It is important to note that this is essentially establishing triple state residency in some cases; this does not invalidate the home of record dual state residency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
The 2010 memo does not apply to military, so far as I can tell. The 2004 FFL newsletter quite clearly does.

Their interpretation is
Quote:
The Gun Control Act (GCA) provides that a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. However, the GCA’s general definition of State of residence may also apply to some active duty members. The general definition of State of residence is the State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with an intention of making a home in the State. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member is considered a resident of both the State in which his or her duty station is located and the State in which his or her home is maintained, and he or she may purchase a firearm in either State.
They do not address anything like the permanent home of record. (My dad used to use Illinois, up until he got stationed at McClellan in Sacramento.)

Is that an error by BATF? I don't know - but they don't think so. Before I relied on suspected error, I would hire an attorney and get a paid-for opinion.

...

Please feel free to assume whatever level of risk you like.
As noted above, I don't think this is an error at all. Dual state status for military members with a separate state on their home of record is pretty cut and dried. Being able to purchase in the residence state as well as the PCS orders state doesn't address the home of record at all.
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Old 04-04-2012, 1:30 PM
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However, the newsletter says "The Gun Control Act (GCA) provides that a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. " and does not go on to say "... as well as whatever state the servicemember chooses to maintain as home of record."

I read that omission as significant. I may be wrong in that.
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Last edited by Librarian; 04-04-2012 at 1:32 PM..
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Old 04-04-2012, 1:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
However, the newsletter says "The Gun Control Act (GCA) provides that a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. " and does not go on to say "... as well as whatever state the servicemember chooses to maintain as home of record."

I read that omission as significant. I may be wrong in that.
I believe the omission is simply because it's not the point they were clarifying - the ATF 2004 letter was simply clarifying that in some situations, military members are temporary residents (as long as their PCS is active) of two states instead of one - which doesn't affect the fact they are permanent members of one.

I believe the answer to this question is 'yes', based upon other rights and duties (voting, taxes, etc) remaining in effect just as for a dual state resident.
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Old 04-04-2012, 7:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grammaton76 View Post
I believe the omission is simply because it's not the point they were clarifying - the ATF 2004 letter was simply clarifying that in some situations, military members are temporary residents (as long as their PCS is active) of two states instead of one - which doesn't affect the fact they are permanent members of one.
Plausible. Not the way I would have written that newsletter article; it doesn't say '.mil is ONLY a resident of PCS location, though. It just leaves out any other consideration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grammaton76 View Post
I believe the answer to this question is 'yes', based upon other rights and duties (voting, taxes, etc) remaining in effect just as for a dual state resident.
But where can we find something dispositive asserting both halves in the same place? I truly prefer the 'buy at home' AND 'buy where Uncle Sugar sends you' model, and would be happy to correct my understanding.

Working with the BATF context, I'm uncomfortable asserting
'A is true for everyone'
'B is true for servicemembers'
'Therefore, A and B are true for servicemembers.'
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Old 04-04-2012, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Working with the BATF context, I'm uncomfortable asserting
'A is true for everyone'
'B is true for servicemembers'
'Therefore, A and B are true for servicemembers.'
So servicemembers are not a subset of everyone?

You're saying:
'A is true for everyone except servicemembers'
just because
'B is true for servicemembers'

Again, it is entirely implausible that USC restricts service members to the residency of their PCS when it comes to the purchase of firearms, but allows them to keep their multiple residency rights/privilieges/responsibilities in all other areas.

BTW, I did follow the link and no where does it state/infer/allude that the cost is that the servicemember is NOT allowed to buy guns in any other state than his/her PCS location, except in special circumstances; so the phrase appears to be entirely an interpretation on your part.

Last edited by dachan; 04-04-2012 at 8:03 PM..
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Old 04-04-2012, 9:38 PM
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So servicemembers are not a subset of everyone?

You're saying:
'A is true for everyone except servicemembers'
just because
'B is true for servicemembers'

Again, it is entirely implausible that USC restricts service members to the residency of their PCS when it comes to the purchase of firearms, but allows them to keep their multiple residency rights/privilieges/responsibilities in all other areas.

BTW, I did follow the link and no where does it state/infer/allude that the cost is that the servicemember is NOT allowed to buy guns in any other state than his/her PCS location, except in special circumstances; so the phrase appears to be entirely an interpretation on your part.
No, what I'm saying is I've seen enough BATF weirdness that I cannot be sure ordinary logic applies.

As you and grammaton are pointing out, it may be the case that I'm taking the 2004 newsletter more restrictively than it warrants. If that works out to be true, then it would have been an interpretation/misinterpretation I made, yes.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:38 PM
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In general, the Service Members residency is protected by the Solders and Sailors relief act. This was rewritten in 2003 to become the Service Members Civil Relief Act (SCRA), which was even further amended to protect the spouse in 2009. Basically, the SCRA says that a service member does not loose any rights they have as a resident of their state by being stationed in a different state. Ie. California can't collect income tax on a service members military pay just because they are stationed in California, they also can't make them change their DL, nor can they force them to register vehicles here, and in that regards firearms. There is a ton of other stuff in the relief act which can be found here or by googling.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/sscra/l/blscramenu.htm

Section 511 talks about residency for taxes, 705 talks about guarantee of residency which is needed to determine what elections you can vote in. Either way it is _VERY CLEAR_ that a service member does not loose their state of legal residence when they are stationed abroad, or stationed in a different state. Like I said before, changing residency is voluntary.

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Section 705 - Guarantee of residency for military personnel

For the purposes of voting for any Federal office (as defined in section 301 of the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 (2 U.S.C. 431)) or a State or local office, a person who is absent from a State in compliance with military or naval orders shall not, solely by reason of that absence--

(1) be deemed to have lost a residence or domicile in that State, without regard to whether or not the person intends to return to that State;

(2) be deemed to have acquired a residence or domicile in any other State; or

(3) be deemed to have become a resident in or a resident of any other State.
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Old 04-05-2012, 8:43 AM
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So, as Markw states via the SSRA/SCRA, the grandson remains a CA resident. He brings the handgun into california (Under FOPA, notwithstanding any state or local law, a person is entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he or she may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he or she may lawfully possess and carry it, if the firearm is unloaded and locked out of reach).

So does he then register it (BOF Form 4542A, CA DL # in the ID# box), and then does an intra-familial transfer without need for FFL (BOF form 4544A)?
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Old 04-05-2012, 8:56 AM
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So does he then register it (BOF Form 4542A, CA DL # in the ID# box), and then does an intra-familial transfer without need for FFL (BOF form 4544A)?
If you perform the intrafamilia transfer within 60days of importing the handgun into Ca, registering it first is not needed.
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Old 04-05-2012, 9:25 AM
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PCS orders will qualify as residency status in another state but you do not forfeit our residency status in your home of record. These must be PCS orders not TAD.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dachan View Post
If you perform the intrafamilia transfer within 60days of importing the handgun into Ca, registering it first is not needed.
The transfer paperwork would count as the registration. No sense in paying them twice.

Also, in that regards, a military member stationed in California who is not a resident of California need not register any handguns that they bring in while they are stationed here.
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Old 04-05-2012, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw View Post
In general, the Service Members residency is protected by the Solders and Sailors relief act. This was rewritten in 2003 to become the Service Members Civil Relief Act (SCRA), which was even further amended to protect the spouse in 2009. Basically, the SCRA says that a service member does not loose any rights they have as a resident of their state by being stationed in a different state. Ie. California can't collect income tax on a service members military pay just because they are stationed in California, they also can't make them change their DL, nor can they force them to register vehicles here, and in that regards firearms. There is a ton of other stuff in the relief act which can be found here or by googling.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/sscra/l/blscramenu.htm

Section 511 talks about residency for taxes, 705 talks about guarantee of residency which is needed to determine what elections you can vote in. Either way it is _VERY CLEAR_ that a service member does not loose their state of legal residence when they are stationed abroad, or stationed in a different state. Like I said before, changing residency is voluntary.
That looks astonishingly reasonable - thanks for the links.

The only Keynesian thing I know I agree with is his quote "When the facts change, I change my mind." (Clearly, the facts didn't change, but I didn't know some of them. I wonder if BATF does?)
Sept 18 2012 - Edited to add ...

Having read through the Service Members Civil Relief Act law at 50 USC - see http://www.justice.gov/crt/spec_topi...itary/scra.php - I discover nothing in it addresses the right to purchase guns. Having no clarification or explanatory documentation to modify the 2004 BATF ruling, I am compelled to retain my opinion that the BATF memo means what it appears to say - for purposes of buying guns, servicemembers are residents ONLY of the states where they are ordered PCS.
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Last edited by Librarian; 09-18-2012 at 6:42 PM..
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Old 04-05-2012, 5:46 PM
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You guys are awesome. It truly takes a lot to do things legally what should be very simple.

...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed...

...except when on military orders away from thier home of record the ability to gift to a family member a firearm that was purchased legally to a member of thier immediate family back home, without fear of commiting a federal felony.

Thank you all for your help in trying to clear this up.

As i ammended. The Grandfather in this is my father and the Grandson is my nephew. My father told me that my nephew wanted to give him a handgun he purchased and I told him to wait as there might be more to just an interfamiliar transfer. My father is a CA Attorney, newly interested in firearms so he is one to make sure things are on the level.

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