Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-10-2012, 7:28 AM
rtc111 rtc111 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 221
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default .308 maximum effective "killing" range

Now the U.S army says it has an effective range of 800M, meaning it can reliably hit a target at 800M, but can it do damage that far?

In talking about the effective killing range of the .308 if you look at its velocity and ME it doesn't look like it would kill an average whitetail deer at 600 Y.

So how far do you think a .308 could effectively kill a whitetail deer? (leave ethical shots out of this please)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-10-2012, 7:36 AM
cfusionpm's Avatar
cfusionpm cfusionpm is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,930
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Todd Hodnett shoots .308 out to a mile. Like a boss.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-10-2012, 8:01 AM
phish's Avatar
phish phish is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 3,086
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Sgt. Gilliland is credited with the longest confirmed kill with a 7.62 NATO at 1250 meters. You will get ethical shot comments from the hunters here since you opened the door...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-10-2012, 8:10 AM
donw's Avatar
donw donw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: between temecula and palm springs
Posts: 1,694
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Carlos hathcock regularly shot 600 yds plus in Vietnam racking up over 90 confirmed he used mostly 30-06 but did occasionally use the 7.62 NATO and a MA2 modified to accept a scope.

"Killing" at ranges up to 1300 yards with the .308 is not ruled out...its hitting it.

i read a quote by an army sniper saying that "Even 60% of trained snipers miss the first shot at ranges 600 yards and more."
__________________
NRA life member, US Army Veteran

i am a legend in my own mind...

we are told not to judge muslims by what a few do...yet, the NRA membership and firearms owners are ALL considered as radical...

"The second amendment ain't about your deer rifle..."

Last edited by donw; 03-10-2012 at 8:14 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-10-2012, 8:13 AM
ronson ronson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 103
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

308 SMK-BT has 426ft-lbs and 1047ft/s out of my gun... at 1200 yards. That's more than some 45ACP loads at the barrel.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-10-2012, 8:20 AM
chicoredneck's Avatar
chicoredneck chicoredneck is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,826
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtc111 View Post
Now the U.S army says it has an effective range of 800M, meaning it can reliably hit a target at 800M, but can it do damage that far?

In talking about the effective killing range of the .308 if you look at its velocity and ME it doesn't look like it would kill an average whitetail deer at 600 Y.

So how far do you think a .308 could effectively kill a whitetail deer? (leave ethical shots out of this please)
The point that the bullet losses enough velocity that it can no longer penetrate a skull or ribs reliably. Probably somwhere around 750fps or lower.

Realistically the bullet loses stability and therefore accuracy once it goes subsonic, so hitting your target past the supersonic range of the projectile is a crap shoot.

The reason that the army has 800 meters listed as the max effective range is because that is the average range that the bullet goes subsonic (military loading), thus making the accuracy impractical past that range. Energy has little to do with the limitations given.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-10-2012, 8:25 AM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 40,377
iTrader: 125 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtc111 View Post
In talking about the effective killing range of the .308 if you look at its velocity and ME it doesn't look like it would kill an average whitetail deer at 600 Y.
You might want to look at your calcs again. Then, ask yourself "at what distance would I feel safe in front of an accomplished XLR shooter firing at me with a .308?"
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor


Offering low cost private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-10-2012, 8:27 AM
Whatisthis?'s Avatar
Whatisthis? Whatisthis? is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,639
iTrader: 46 / 100%
Default

Read an article a week ago about a sniper taking out a guy at 852 meters with an M14. I don't know rifles really well but a military M14 should be 7.62x54 (.308)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-10-2012, 8:36 AM
Black Majik's Avatar
Black Majik Black Majik is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 9,390
iTrader: 63 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatisthis? View Post
Read an article a week ago about a sniper taking out a guy at 852 meters with an M14. I don't know rifles really well but a military M14 should be 7.62x54 (.308)
Almost, 7.62x51
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-10-2012, 8:40 AM
DannyInSoCal's Avatar
DannyInSoCal DannyInSoCal is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 8,112
iTrader: 108 / 100%
Default

Step up to the .338 Lapua and your worries about "killing" past 600 yards are over...
__________________
.
$500 Donation to any Veterans Charity - Plus $500 Gift Card to any gun store: Visit 2nd Amendment Mortgage / www.2AMortgage.com
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-10-2012, 8:44 AM
donw's Avatar
donw donw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: between temecula and palm springs
Posts: 1,694
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

the DISTANCE involved in "Long range" sniping is why the military is going to higher powered cartridges now; 338 lapua and 50 BMG are two in use now. (they have tested .416 and .450 as well but the .338 is the most widely used and accepted at the moment for ranges within 2000yds.)

the new technologies emerging now, make things change from day to day, though. as an example: there is a fin guided, computer chip controlled, .50 cal, "Smart", round being tested right now for ultra-precision 'sniping'.

technology like that will render the "Sniper", as we now recognize him, obsolete.

caliber...distance to target... accuracy...and more... all factor in in "Effective killing" range of any projectile
__________________
NRA life member, US Army Veteran

i am a legend in my own mind...

we are told not to judge muslims by what a few do...yet, the NRA membership and firearms owners are ALL considered as radical...

"The second amendment ain't about your deer rifle..."
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-10-2012, 8:46 AM
donw's Avatar
donw donw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: between temecula and palm springs
Posts: 1,694
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

7.62x54r is the Russian mosin...
__________________
NRA life member, US Army Veteran

i am a legend in my own mind...

we are told not to judge muslims by what a few do...yet, the NRA membership and firearms owners are ALL considered as radical...

"The second amendment ain't about your deer rifle..."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-10-2012, 9:05 AM
PEZHEAD265 PEZHEAD265 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 983
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatisthis? View Post
Read an article a week ago about a sniper taking out a guy at 852 meters with an M14. I don't know rifles really well but a military M14 should be 7.62x54 (.308)
That the Russian round [7.62x54] and just a hair bigger at .310 or .311
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-10-2012, 9:09 AM
bearstatearmory.com's Avatar
bearstatearmory.com bearstatearmory.com is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Corona, CA
Posts: 438
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by donw View Post
the DISTANCE involved in "Long range" sniping is why the military is going to higher powered cartridges now; 338 lapua and 50 BMG are two in use now. (they have tested .416 and .450 as well but the .338 is the most widely used and accepted at the moment for ranges within 2000yds.)

the new technologies emerging now, make things change from day to day, though. as an example: there is a fin guided, computer chip controlled, .50 cal, "Smart", round being tested right now for ultra-precision 'sniping'.

technology like that will render the "Sniper", as we now recognize him, obsolete.

caliber...distance to target... accuracy...and more... all factor in in "Effective killing" range of any projectile
Any more info on that?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-10-2012, 9:32 AM
pat4wd pat4wd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Berry Creek, Ca
Posts: 1,442
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

The one example given how at distance the 308 had more energy than the 45 acp at muzzle should sum it up real quick.. the ability to kill is there long past 800 meters.. And in times of battle it is not always just to kill, having a wounded soldier is said to be sometimes worse in the way it effects the enemy due to the resources needed to help that soldier as well as the moral it causes..

As far as hunting I wouldn't personally take game at distances farther than 500 yards do to my own ability to know it will always be a clean shot..
__________________
Try out a AppleSeed... http://www.appleseedinfo.org/


Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-10-2012, 10:37 AM
Whatisthis?'s Avatar
Whatisthis? Whatisthis? is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,639
iTrader: 46 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Majik View Post
Almost, 7.62x51
Damn, I thought I knew it. Oh well, thanks for correcting me.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-10-2012, 10:41 AM
luchador768 luchador768 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,259
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

There was a post on here a few months ago about a guy back east that killed several high school kids a mile away with his .308. It was supposedly an "accident" and he was unaware that he had hit anyone.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-10-2012, 11:41 AM
russ69's Avatar
russ69 russ69 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,002
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtc111 View Post
...So how far do you think a .308 could effectively kill a whitetail deer? (leave ethical shots out of this please)
The cartridge is more effective than the shooter until past 1000 yards. What's the point of this question? I'm not sure what you really want to know?
__________________
NRA PATRON LIFE
CRPA LIFE
ASRPA LIFE
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-10-2012, 1:13 PM
rtc111 rtc111 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 221
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Yeah that's terrible, the word "several" makes it sounds a whole lot less of an accident haha
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-10-2012, 1:17 PM
rtc111 rtc111 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 221
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Russ69- I'm sure everyone has heard of the moose killed with a 30-30 and grizzlies killed with 22, all I'm wondering is would a .308 have enough knock down power to kill a large deer with out the perfect dorsal artery shot at 600Y
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-10-2012, 2:00 PM
resident-shooter resident-shooter is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sacramento Area
Posts: 2,781
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

It will kill further away than where u can aim effectively
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-10-2012, 3:03 PM
rtc111 rtc111 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 221
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

That's what I wanna hear! Awesome
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-10-2012, 3:09 PM
Hoop Hoop is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Auburn
Posts: 11,539
iTrader: 66 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtc111 View Post
with out the perfect dorsal artery shot at 600Y
308 is technically more than enough on paper (according to all the hunting know-it-alls) but you won't get far without proper shot placement. Lots of hunters out there have winged deer with magnums in the hope that 'knockdown power' would make up for their gut wound of a shot and it doesn't.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-10-2012, 3:25 PM
donw's Avatar
donw donw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: between temecula and palm springs
Posts: 1,694
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearstatearmory.com View Post
Any more info on that?
i saw a segment about the fin guided, computer chip controlled round on the military channel; they showed a few test shots being fired.

the .338 lapua was adopted last year (or before) as i recall. it's been in service in Afghanistan.

the us military has been, routinely, testing larger bore sniper rifles since the advent of the Barrett .50 BMG rifles; so far, they've found the .338 lapua to be the most accurate at the longer ranges.

what HOOP said above is correct...no matter the distance...shot placement is critical...that being said.

once again...hitting the intended target AT ANY RANGE gets harder as the distance increases and to shoot farther, ACCURATELY, takes proper equipment and training.

don't believe it? pick up your .308...sight in the scope at 200yards WITH a CORRECT MOA scope base...try 500 yards...then 1000 yards...not easy...

please note: i did NOT say "impossible" or "Can't be done"...
__________________
NRA life member, US Army Veteran

i am a legend in my own mind...

we are told not to judge muslims by what a few do...yet, the NRA membership and firearms owners are ALL considered as radical...

"The second amendment ain't about your deer rifle..."

Last edited by donw; 03-10-2012 at 3:36 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-10-2012, 3:27 PM
toby toby is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Soon to be in Texas.
Posts: 10,597
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

About a million miles away........or as far as from here till next week if you can figure that measurement..... truthfully tho with a 308 I call 500 yrds MAX on Game Animals IF you are capable of doing so! Sniper shooting is not Hunting.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-10-2012, 3:56 PM
jtv3062's Avatar
jtv3062 jtv3062 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,041
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtc111 View Post
Russ69- I'm sure everyone has heard of the moose killed with a 30-30 and grizzlies killed with 22, all I'm wondering is would a .308 have enough knock down power to kill a large deer with out the perfect dorsal artery shot at 600Y
So what's your question? You asked about military applications and now you bring in ethical hunting.
__________________
Do not fear the enemy, for your enemy can only take your life. It is far better that you fear the media, for they will steal your Honour

Let's pray for Obama Psalm 109:8

Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Love me some tube steaks.


Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-10-2012, 4:07 PM
toby toby is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Soon to be in Texas.
Posts: 10,597
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtv3062 View Post
So what's your question? You asked about military applications and now you bring in ethical hunting.
No, he quoted the Military saying the effective range of the 308 but asked about if the killing power of the 308 was efficient enough for Whitetail Deer at that range.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-10-2012, 4:09 PM
Peter W Bush's Avatar
Peter W Bush Peter W Bush is offline
Calguns Supreme Overlord
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 4,734
iTrader: 61 / 100%
Default

I would agree with whoever said 1200 yards. There's a guy here that snipers elephants from about 2000 yards but I'm not sure which scope he uses.
__________________
Will trade liquor/wine/beer for parts and accesories and ammo! PM me. Dont drink n shoot. Offer void where prohibited.

"I don't like repeat offenders. I like dead offenders."
-Ted Nugent

Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOELKY View Post
Well, glad you got the kit anyways, I'm sure I'll fondle it a little in the near future..... oh God, that's going to be in somebody's signature....:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOELKY View Post
put me in line, but if Peter W. Bush takes it, I need to be removed from his Signature line.......:D
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-10-2012, 5:04 PM
elsolo's Avatar
elsolo elsolo is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,609
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Deer are tougher than people.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-10-2012, 6:55 PM
cabinetguy's Avatar
cabinetguy cabinetguy is offline
Master Twerker
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 10,634
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elsolo View Post
Deer are tougher than people.
You are just a bad cook
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-10-2012, 7:06 PM
hayaku's Avatar
hayaku hayaku is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: socal
Posts: 543
iTrader: 61 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfusionpm View Post
Todd Hodnett shoots .308 out to a mile. Like a boss.
yep, in the magpul vid todd said the 308 bullet's velocity at that distance is something like ~850+ fps.. similar to a 45acp's initial speed. if that's true, it has the same effectiveness at 1 mile as that of a single handgun shot at point blank...
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-10-2012, 7:08 PM
Juice5610's Avatar
Juice5610 Juice5610 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: 626
Posts: 1,523
iTrader: 15 / 94%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetguy View Post
You are just a bad cook
Lol!
__________________
I WANT TO BUY YOUR DAN WESSON SPECIALIST 1911!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:45 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.