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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

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  #1  
Old 03-08-2012, 7:18 PM
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Default .22 barrel liner as an actual barrel- safe?

Does anyone know if the .22 barrel liners ( 3/8" Outside Dia) from Brownell's and/or Midway are safe to shoot as actual barrels ( not inserted into a barrel)... but actually used AS the barrel?

Im interested in a very lightweight singleshot rifle and one of the designs Im considering could be modified to just use the liner... if its safe.

Does anyone kow of an actual desing or seen this done safely in person?
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  #2  
Old 03-08-2012, 7:45 PM
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It would be a barrel with a wall thickness of around .0775 inches, so I'm guessing no. You might be able to use it as a liner in a lightweight plastic barrel like the AR7. ???
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  #3  
Old 03-08-2012, 8:03 PM
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I think there is a reason the smallest diameter .22lr barrels you usually see are around 1" diameter. Not something I would want to try.

You could always e-mail Brownells and get their suggestion for an ultra lightweight barrel.
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Old 03-08-2012, 8:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
I think there is a reason the smallest diameter .22lr barrels you usually see are around 1" diameter. Not something I would want to try.

You could always e-mail Brownells and get their suggestion for an ultra lightweight barrel.
1" is a heavy barrel my target rifles both have .920" dia barrels another has a .6 with taper...

but NO Not safe to use the liner alone, you would be limited anyways as to how you would attach it to an action.

how light do you need this rifle to be? is it a youth rifle?
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Old 03-08-2012, 8:14 PM
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http://www.colt22.com/basic.html

These seem to be as thin as Colt was willing to go. Even so, the chamber area was still beefier than a liner.

Designed before high pressure ammo and lawyers too.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:16 PM
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Looked at an NAA revolver? Mine has a barrel wall thickness of about 1/16 of an inch. The walls of the cylinder is about the same or thinner. >22lr is a low pressure round. Would a liner work? Probably, but I wouldnt do it, i would at least sleeve it with a steel tube.
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I think there is a reason the smallest diameter .22lr barrels you usually see are around 1" diameter. Not something I would want to try.

You could always e-mail Brownells and get their suggestion for an ultra lightweight barrel.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:18 PM
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think about this. if you put a .223 in a .308 chamber and could get it to fire, the brass would explode on ignition because there is nothing around that brass to make it hold its' shape.

I would think the same concept would be true for what you are trying to accomplish. The barrel liner will be too thin to handle the explosion of a round without the added strength of a barrel around it. Much like how the brass in the above example is too thin to handle the explosion of a round without a chamber around it.

Hopefully that made sense.

That's just the first thing that came to mind.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:16 PM
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i think so but it would be very fragile on its own and be prone to bending ive seen them just epoxied in place and i'm sure that epoxy is not as strong as steel but it inserted inside makes it more structurally sound

have you ever seen the chamber walls on those naa mini revolvers a liner wont blow up but its going to bend and whip around so it would be very inaccurate
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Old 03-09-2012, 7:12 AM
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There is a reason it's called a "BARREL LINER" and not a "BARREL". It might work once or twice or a hundred times then one day the liner will rupture and its shrapnel. Imagine being at a range or hunting or ??? when that happens with other shooters on both sides. Better have a good lawyer. Not trying to flame you, just not a good idea. 22lr pressure is 24,000 pounds per square inch.

Better yet ask a reliable gunsmith if it's feasible.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:14 AM
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But but from a distance my 22 barrel looked to be about 1" in diameter... of course what I call 8" might not actually be correct either....
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:54 AM
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2012, 11:55 AM
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An aftermarket bull barrel for a 10/22 is 0.92" in diameter. The stock barrel is noticably thinner.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:12 PM
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I have fired some old gallery guns that had steel liners with a brass outer...
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Old 03-09-2012, 1:30 PM
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As a barrel, yes.
As a part of the chamber, reinforcement will be required.
And do expect poor accuracy over time. They are easily bent.
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Old 03-09-2012, 1:57 PM
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Barrel liner chambers are all full thickness, only the bore is of slim diameter.

While it would be safe enough, accuracy would be less than "barn door" due to really excessive barrel whip.
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Old 03-09-2012, 2:06 PM
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seems like you are going for a nomination in the darwin awards! best of luck!
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Old 03-09-2012, 2:12 PM
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if you are concidering building a single shot 22, id use a ruger 10/22 barrel. you can find them for cheap, they already have sights and mount easy.
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  #18  
Old 03-09-2012, 4:24 PM
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i'd love to make a micro rifle but its scale would bring it into nfa territory

like a half scale cricket like with a 10 inch barrel and oal of 18 inches

but i'm not sure they allow the puma bounty hunter to have a buttplate and its a pistol

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Old 03-09-2012, 7:15 PM
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Most of you had very helpful comments. thank you. I may not have included enough info in my question.

Id like to begin home building some small simple single shot 22 rifles. Just to learn. Eventually, Id like to attempt an ultra light rifle... I saw one online that was insanely light ( 16 oz). It would be a long time before I could attempt something like that but im just fishing for ideas on how to lighten up a small 22 someday - legally of course.

I should have some measurements and rough drawings on one of these in a few months... http://www.packrifle.com/pictures.html

I may even get to borrow it for awhile to try and copy it later. The barrel looks like its 3/8 - 1/2", so I was wondering if its just a liner thats obviously reinforced at chamer. (No, I never thought I would try to use JUST the liner for the chamber, but how much of the liner actually needs to be in a reinforced tube/body beyond chamber? ... sounds like all of it?). Maybe sleeve it with aluminum then? Anyway, it'll be years before Im ready try.

Thanks for the perspective. Those of you who are genuinely concerned I might lose an eye trying something stupid... thanks for looking out.

If I get my hands on this pack-rifle from MVMW, Ill see what measurements/pics I can share with you guys without getting in trouble .

Or if anyone has one ( at $400 you're nuts for buying it! )... please PM me.
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Old 03-09-2012, 7:31 PM
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Check out the Tactical Soulutions barrels, they are aluminum with a liner.
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Old 03-09-2012, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weezil_boi View Post
Does anyone know if the .22 barrel liners ( 3/8" Outside Dia) from Brownell's and/or Midway are safe to shoot as actual barrels ( not inserted into a barrel)... but actually used AS the barrel?

Im interested in a very lightweight singleshot rifle and one of the designs Im considering could be modified to just use the liner... if its safe.

Does anyone kow of an actual desing or seen this done safely in person?

Brownells sells Redman liners and they are a nominal .311", not .375". They are pull-buttoned 4130 aircraft tubing. I reline rimfires quite often and I dont think this is a good idea. I dont think you will have a catastophic failure, but I would imagine it will get pushed out of shape in a hurry unless reinforced with some kind of outside jacket for structural support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
Barrel liner chambers are all full thickness, only the bore is of slim diameter.

While it would be safe enough, accuracy would be less than "barn door" due to really excessive barrel whip.
Liners from Redmans and TJ's are all of a single diameter. Not aware of any that have a chamber reinforce. TJ's are considered quite a bit better as they are hammer forged and can be had in different outside diameters. They are also a bit more expensive.
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Old 03-09-2012, 8:03 PM
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I curious how you secure the liner in a relined barrel. I've heard of brazing and epoxy. You have a preferance?
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Old 03-09-2012, 8:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
I curious how you secure the liner in a relined barrel. I've heard of brazing and epoxy. You have a preferance?
I use industrial adhesive. Loctite 638. ZERO stress on the assembly, and it wont come out until you want it out, and even then you will have a fight on your hands. Some folks use epoxy, some use red loctite. They are all good, but the 638 is rated to higher pressure values.
I ran a test a while back where I took a 4" section of barrel, prepped it for a liner, and cemented 2" into the barrel and left an inch or so hanging out. After 8 hours set time I tried to press the liner into the barrel in a large vise and it bent over before the joint failed.
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Old 03-10-2012, 7:01 AM
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There is someone thats making ultra light conversions for chipmunks. its a carbon fiber reinforced linner for the barrel and a skelaton stock. I dont think the liner will have any problem holding the pressure, but you would quickly have a bent barrel. I have seen zip guns made out of much less. DR
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