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  #41  
Old 09-28-2012, 3:45 PM
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Regardless of what the fed/state want to call it, a "use tax" is just another way of screwing us. "Creating an even playing field for Cali businesses" is a cop out excuse.


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  #42  
Old 09-28-2012, 4:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schutzman View Post
Regardless of what the fed/state want to call it, a "use tax" is just another way of screwing us. "Creating an even playing field for Cali businesses" is a cop out excuse.


Schutz
Indeed it is. We have to pay a DROS that many other states don't have an equivalent of, while the even playing fields is well, already made even by FFL transfer fees?
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  #43  
Old 09-28-2012, 4:15 PM
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The sad thing is, the "usage tax" is actually higher than OC Sales Tax...
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  #44  
Old 10-02-2012, 4:59 AM
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I am obviously from Oklahoma....If I buy a gun from a fella in Cali what all would I have to pay in addition to the price of the gun? Can ya'll ship a firearm as an individual as long as its going to a FFL?
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  #45  
Old 10-08-2012, 3:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okla1911 View Post
I am obviously from Oklahoma....If I buy a gun from a fella in Cali what all would I have to pay in addition to the price of the gun? Can ya'll ship a firearm as an individual as long as its going to a FFL?

In CA, you'll get taxed by those greedy suckers - even if they are a private seller and it's not a retail sale. Yes, individuals can ship.
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  #46  
Old 10-23-2012, 6:28 PM
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Apec
I don't think that's correct. We frequently do sales tax reports and we have several exemptions. First is resale to another buyer for retail sales. They collect the final retail sales tax.
Second is goods shipped out of state.
Thus, if okla buys from a CA dealer, for shipping to him and the goods are then shipped to him, in Oklahoma, CA sales tax is not collected nor due.
So far, I know of no other state that has started to charge sales tax on internet sales. California has started to do that as of September of this year.
They first and foremost went after Amazon, as they are a 'big fish'.
They may well miss some of the smaller and further away internet sellers.
I believe earlier this year CA ffls were notified that they must collect sales tax on out of state, or internet purchases of firearms shipped into the state for sale to CA residents.
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  #47  
Old 11-14-2012, 12:06 AM
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Maybe I was distracted by the television in the background but what I read the BOE letter it reminded me of the South Park underwear gnomes episode where they say "step one, collect underpants; step three, profit!"

Reading the legal citations provided in the letter it seemed clear to me that in all cases the referenced out of state sellers would have to be out of state RETAILERS in order for tax to be collected here. Then the BOE official remarkably concludes that the law also applies to private party out of state sellers. Magic. Of course it could cost you $300,000 to fight it all the way to a court of appeal so they'll get away with it, but sheesh.
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  #48  
Old 11-14-2012, 8:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David13 View Post
Apec
I don't think that's correct. We frequently do sales tax reports and we have several exemptions. First is resale to another buyer for retail sales. They collect the final retail sales tax.
Second is goods shipped out of state.
Thus, if okla buys from a CA dealer, for shipping to him and the goods are then shipped to him, in Oklahoma, CA sales tax is not collected nor due.
So far, I know of no other state that has started to charge sales tax on internet sales. California has started to do that as of September of this year.
They first and foremost went after Amazon, as they are a 'big fish'.
They may well miss some of the smaller and further away internet sellers.
I believe earlier this year CA ffls were notified that they must collect sales tax on out of state, or internet purchases of firearms shipped into the state for sale to CA residents.
dc
You would have been correct a few years ago, or at least before the BOE started breathing down FFL's necks. The BOE has made clear its stance and is unwilling to distinguish private sellers from retail sellers when shipping is involved. Read here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=534146

Quote:
Based on the above citations, when a California FFL dealer completes the registration paperwork and delivers a firearm to a California purchaser for an out-of-state private party seller or an out-of-state retailer not registered with the BOE as a retailer engaged in business in this state, it is presumed that the California FFL dealer is the retailer of the firearm. This is due to the fact that by operation of law, only the California FFL dealer possessing the firearm has power to cause title to the property to transfer to the purchaser.
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  #49  
Old 12-02-2012, 12:16 PM
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So I have a resale licence, can I buy a weapon and not pay the tax on it till I sell it / trade it? Pretty sure not.... But it would be cool....lol
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  #50  
Old 12-11-2012, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo_1 View Post
Going thru the same thing now.
I bought a used pistol from a private seller from out of state.
My ffl is charging me the ff:

Tax based on full price of the pistol & shipping
Dros fee
Dealer transfer fee
In total i paid 110 In fees for a used $500 pistol.
There should not be any tax charged on the shipping.
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  #51  
Old 01-26-2013, 2:46 PM
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Tax sucks!
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  #52  
Old 01-27-2013, 8:49 AM
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I bought a pistol from a private individual in Wisonsin. He shipped it to my FFL here in California. When I completed the DROS, my FFL charged me a fee of $65 plus the DROS of $25. He then added sales tax on his fee of $65, for a total of $95.20. If that's what California intends, it is ridiculously unfair!

This kind of stuff makes me want to do more of my shopping on the internet ! California is rapidly disintegrating from its own rules and laws.
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  #53  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:31 PM
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I purchased my handgun from Maine, Had it shipped to one of my local FFL dealers and picked it up today. He did not charge CA sales tax, When I questioned him about it, he pulled a letter from the State of CA showing the collection of sales tax is not longer required.

I didn't argue or further verify this, I just know he didn't collect tax from me

Brian
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  #54  
Old 02-26-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UPS Mechanic View Post
I purchased my handgun from Maine, Had it shipped to one of my local FFL dealers and picked it up today. He did not charge CA sales tax, When I questioned him about it, he pulled a letter from the State of CA showing the collection of sales tax is not longer required.

I didn't argue or further verify this, I just know he didn't collect tax from me

Brian
Same thing happened to me.
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  #55  
Old 02-28-2013, 4:08 PM
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I wonder if anyone happens to have a copy of this letter to post for anyone else that might encounter this tax issue from out of state purchases
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  #56  
Old 02-28-2013, 4:46 PM
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You should NOT be paying any TAX on a purchase from a PRIVATE seller, in or out of state.

IF you buy from an auction that is a private seller, NO TAX

IF yo buy from an auction or seller that is a business/store/online retail seller you will PAY TAX.
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  #57  
Old 02-28-2013, 8:50 PM
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There is a 2009 letter which says that you don't have to collect sales tax from out of state private purchases, but that was changed in late 2011 and I also have another letter from 2012. So, unless someone can come up with a more recent letter than around May 2012, it is not correct. I would love to see such a letter.

There is a FAQ on sales tax in the FFL forum. You have to read the whole thing since it changes over time, but with the exception of a C&R handgun from an out of state private seller and which is an occasional sale and the buyer has a C&R FFL, sales tax has to be collected on all out of state firearms.
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  #58  
Old 02-28-2013, 8:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe cook View Post
There should not be any tax charged on the shipping.
Incorrect. Check with the CA BOE. Because the firearm is not being delivered to you, the shipping is subject to sales tax, just like items you buy in the store. Part of the cost is shipping, which the total price includes, but you pay sales tax on it. If you order an item and have it delivered to the store, the shipping is subject to sales tax. Only if it is delivered directly to you is the shipping exempt from sales tax.
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  #59  
Old 04-15-2013, 8:15 PM
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Wtf? This is new to me. I thought I found a deal for 699 on a pistol. But after like 63bucks in taxes, the store is charging me 50 to handle the gun and 35 to dros.
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  #60  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:16 PM
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The DROS is $25, so if they are representing it as $35, it is illegal.

if the firearm is coming from a business, it has been subject to sales tax for decades. For firearms from a private party, it was a recent change (late 2011).
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  #61  
Old 04-16-2013, 1:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
The DROS is $25, so if they are representing it as $35, it is illegal.

if the firearm is coming from a business, it has been subject to sales tax for decades. For firearms from a private party, it was a recent change (late 2011).
Asked them about the $35, their response was that's just what they charge.
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  #62  
Old 04-16-2013, 2:34 PM
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http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#13

Quote:
13. How much is the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) fee?

The State's DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a required $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a state fee. In the event of a private party transfer, the firearms dealer may additionally charge a fee of $10 per firearm transferred.

When settling on the purchase price of a firearm and before completing the transaction, you may want to ask the dealer to disclose and identify any and all fees he/she is charging to complete the transaction.
So, if they are claiming that the DROS fee is $35, you can report it to the DOJ as a violation of the law (not that they will do anything). Personally, I would not want to use a business which violates the law.
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  #63  
Old 04-16-2013, 2:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#13



So, if they are claiming that the DROS fee is $35, you can report it to the DOJ as a violation of the law (not that they will do anything). Personally, I would not want to use a business which violates the law.
But they can say the extra 10bucks is a dealer's fee and it's legit.
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  #64  
Old 04-16-2013, 2:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Leo View Post
But they can say the extra 10bucks is a dealer's fee and it's legit.
Yes, if they list it is a separate fee, it is legal, but if they claim the DROS fee is $35 then it is not.
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  #65  
Old 06-08-2013, 10:40 AM
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The pawn shop I use to do transfers charges $20 including the background check. There is no sales tax in Oregon.
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  #66  
Old 06-09-2013, 12:43 PM
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California has become the ultimate rip-off state. I just purchased a Ruger LC9 with Lasermax in Arkansas for $425 + $34 sales tax (8%). There were no additional fees whatsoever. Plus, I walked out with the pistol because there is no waiting period. Gotta love states like that! And, with all the California gun laws, there is more crime here per capita than states with less gun laws. Go figure!
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  #67  
Old 06-09-2013, 1:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSmoke View Post
California has become the ultimate rip-off state. I just purchased a Ruger LC9 with Lasermax in Arkansas for $425 + $34 sales tax (8%). There were no additional fees whatsoever. Plus, I walked out with the pistol because there is no waiting period. Gotta love states like that! And, with all the California gun laws, there is more crime here per capita than states with less gun laws. Go figure!
I hope that you are also a resident of Arkansas since if you are not, the transfer would not be legal.

There was no additional fees, in part, because the FFL sold you the firearm, but also because it sounds like they are using the NICS system, which is free.

The background checks really should be free, especially for a CA PPT. You have to love it that the FFL has to take a discounted fee, but CA gets their full amount, which exceeds the costs.
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  #68  
Old 06-10-2013, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apec View Post
It should be possible for dual residents to do that without an FFL, if the deal happens in one of their residency states. But for CA-only residents, it would be problematic.





Yep. For transfer guns, we have to pay DROS and transfer fees. Tax on top of that...lol, it's effectively being taxed twice.
I bought a gun out of state, paid sales tax there, shipped it to Cali, and paid tax again. Do I get to vote in both states?
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  #69  
Old 06-10-2013, 11:15 PM
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lame!
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  #70  
Old 06-11-2013, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldXD71 View Post
I bought a gun out of state, paid sales tax there, shipped it to Cali, and paid tax again. Do I get to vote in both states?
You should not have been charged sales tax in the other state. You should see if you can get them to refund that amount. If you used a credit card, they might be able to help you.

While you paid, you did not actually buy the firearm (there is a whole discussion on this aspect), and it is being shipped to another business, which is exempt from sales tax. It is only taxable when it is transferred to the end customer.
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  #71  
Old 06-11-2013, 11:11 AM
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My local FFL is no longer collecting sales tax and gives a letter out to customers instructing them to get in touch with the BOE to pay them direct.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:40 AM
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My local FFL is no longer collecting sales tax and gives a letter out to customers instructing them to get in touch with the BOE to pay them direct.
That is nice, but a FFL is required to pay the money (law) and the FFL can not just try to push it off on the customer. It is like Walmart telling customers that they are now responsible to submitting the sales tax on items that they purchase.

I feel sorry for your FFL when he is audited as he is going to owe a lot of money.
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Old 06-11-2013, 3:03 PM
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I know I tried telling him. Does anyone know where the copy of a letter from the BOE that states the FFL must collect sales tax is located so that I can print it out and take it to him?
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  #74  
Old 06-11-2013, 4:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97F1504RAD View Post
I know I tried telling him. Does anyone know where the copy of a letter from the BOE that states the FFL must collect sales tax is located so that I can print it out and take it to him?
There is this letter:



As well as:

http://www.boe.ca.gov/business/Vol2/suta-q-s.pdf

See: 495.0843 & 495.0848

Also:

http://www.boe.ca.gov/lawguides/busi...sutl/6007.html

As said, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
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  #75  
Old 06-19-2013, 10:28 PM
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The use tax however is based on what invoice you show the ca dealer. So it's just like the dmv collecting sales tax on a car from a private party sale. You show them your invoice and the tax is based on that.

It's amazing how many $500.00 BMW's there are out there....
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  #76  
Old 06-20-2013, 9:36 AM
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I talked to the BOE about a fake receipt and they told me that I owed the actual amount regardless of what the receipt said, even if the receipt did not appear to be fake.

Since the FFL is responsible, it is foolish for the FFL to take part in any attempted sales tax evasion since the FFL is liable for the money and gets nothing out of collecting an incorrect amount. In the case of the DMV, only those involved will have an issue should the BOE decide to deal with it and the people involved are getting something out of it (less money to pay).

One word of warning, if you try to play such games, don't be surprised if the FFL decides to not do the transfer.
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  #77  
Old 06-21-2013, 7:29 AM
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I think you just shot yourself in the foot for future business...
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  #78  
Old 06-21-2013, 1:45 PM
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Struggling to make sense of this reply.
If you take a receipt into the receiving dealer he has no reason to suspect that it is a fake or not. He will take what he sees at face value. Granted if someone buys a Sig P226 with a 10 round count and claims it as costing $50.00 then he may smell a rat. However, he has committed no crime at all. The perp here is the presenter of the possible false receipt. However, the BOE has no knowledge of the condition of the gun. crushed frame, grip, totally rusted out etc.
Of course the BOE would say that you owe the tax regardless of what the receipt says, but how does the receiving dealer establish value? The BOE says by the sales receipt!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
I talked to the BOE about a fake receipt and they told me that I owed the actual amount regardless of what the receipt said, even if the receipt did not appear to be fake.

Since the FFL is responsible, it is foolish for the FFL to take part in any attempted sales tax evasion since the FFL is liable for the money and gets nothing out of collecting an incorrect amount. In the case of the DMV, only those involved will have an issue should the BOE decide to deal with it and the people involved are getting something out of it (less money to pay).

One word of warning, if you try to play such games, don't be surprised if the FFL decides to not do the transfer.
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  #79  
Old 06-21-2013, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSmoke View Post
I think you just shot yourself in the foot for future business...
Who are you referencing?

The laws are the laws. Anyone who does not follow the laws are doing so at great risk.
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Old 06-21-2013, 3:22 PM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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Originally Posted by digger2 View Post
Struggling to make sense of this reply.
If you take a receipt into the receiving dealer he has no reason to suspect that it is a fake or not. He will take what he sees at face value. Granted if someone buys a Sig P226 with a 10 round count and claims it as costing $50.00 then he may smell a rat. However, he has committed no crime at all. The perp here is the presenter of the possible false receipt. However, the BOE has no knowledge of the condition of the gun. crushed frame, grip, totally rusted out etc.
Of course the BOE would say that you owe the tax regardless of what the receipt says, but how does the receiving dealer establish value? The BOE says by the sales receipt!
If the BOE finds out a company is putting committing sales tax evasion by creating false receipts, then they can go to the FFL and go after them for the money. While this might be rare, it is still a risk.
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